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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
Artix Kreiger ( talk · contribs · logs) closed this move stating "NOT moved per WP:SNOW". The move discussion was open for about 3.5 hours and only 4 comments had been gathered. Also, per WP:RMCI it was a non-admin closure, but not that fact wasn't indicated by the closer. Unfortunately, this early closure has "snowballed" even further, leading to a related move discussion ( Talk:Exercise (disambiguation)#Requested move 21 March 2018) to be opened premised on the contested close, and several voters in that are citing this close as justification. I believe, at minimum, the close should be updated to reflect the fact that it was closed very early and very few people had a chance to participate and changed to "no consensus" rather than "not moved". I don't believe it needs to be reopened directly, but I don't think there should be any prejudice if someone does in the future. -- Netoholic @ 14:20, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
Closed with the rationale "per
WP:COMMONNAME", though a reading of the discussion shows (a) WP:COMMONNAME is an invalid rationale, despite being brought up by several early commenters (some of whom later recognized this fact), and (b) there was no consensus on what name the article should be moved to—there were several proposals, and several supporters of a move per se were opposed to "Suzukake Nanchara".
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
Discussion still ongoing, and no consensus had yet been reached - which should mean the page stays where it is (long-standing name) until an actual consensus is reached. 2Q ( talk) 20:43, 11 March 2018 (UTC) User:Paine Ellsworth closed ongoing discussion, and the result is unfair. The result must be no consensus under the present state . User:Paine Ellsworth is not an uninvolved editor per [1]. WP:Requested moves#Closing instructions was not followed. Sawol ( talk) 12:18, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
As noted on the talk page of the closer TonyBallioni, under the section Move review, the move in question should be reviewed on several grounds. Regarding the relation between the title and the content, it should be pointed out that the article in question is one of general denominational articles on negative sentiments and animosities towards particular communities, in this case towards the Eastern Orthodox Christianity. In other words, by its very content and previous title scope, it belonges to the same class of wide-scope articles like Anti-Catholicism or Anti-Protestantism. It should also be noted that earlier in February, a failed attempt was made to delete this article (see: Articles for deletion: Anti-Orthodoxy). Only after that, a proposal for the move emerged, from the same group of users who previously tried to delete the article. During discussion on the move, consensus was reached, in principle, to rename the article, but there was no clear consensus on style and scope of the new title, and therefore the closer was faced with quite a complex task. During the discussion, two possible solutions emerged. Initial proposal was implying change of style, and reduction of scope to "persecution" only. Unfortunately, during the entire discussion, proponents of the reduction did not state a single word of explanation, and they did not respond to any of the questions raised on the problem of reduction. In other words, there was no discussion on the subject. On the other hand, in order to preserve style and scope, the counter-proposal also emerged, based on official terminology used by the FBI as designation for negative sentiments and animosities towards Eastern Orthodox Christianity (see more than 800 hits on Google Search for the FBI use of the official term for "Anti-Eastern Orthodox" sentiment). In spite of that, the reduction proposal was carried out, the style was changed and the scope reduced to the "persecution" only. It should be noted that during the discussion it was pointed out that similar denominational articles like Anti-Catholicism or Anti-Protestantism have not been subjected to such reduction, since Persecution of Catholics correctly redirects to Anti-Catholicism as a wider concept, and Persecution of Protestants correctly redirects to Anti-Protestantism, also a wider concept. Therefore, applying different criteria to similar denominational article on anti-Eastern Orthodox sentiment could be perceived as an example of double standards and unfortunate violation of some basic values, as defined by Wikipedia rules and policies. Again, it should be pointed out that the closer had a very difficult task, since this was one of those cases when a very important and complex issue, regarding here the general article on negative sentiments towards an entire denomination, is discussed by only a handful of users, during few days, while it is clear that such complex issues require wider participation, longer discussion, and solutions that are based on the actual scope and contents of the article in question. Sorabino ( talk) 00:04, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
Low turnout (only four other editors participated) and general lack of policy-based arguments on the "oppose" side should really have resulted in a state of no consensus per WP:NOTMOVED. Besides myself, only one other editor ( Shadow007) used valid policy-or-guideline-based reasoning. Two other editors ( Netoholic and Randy Kryn) argued that Tea Party movement could not be the primary topic for the term Tea Party because Boston Tea Party was more significant. However, this ignores WP:PTM which makes clear that terms that are not likely to be confused don't belong on the same disambiguation page. A fourth editor ( Certes) appeared to suggest that Tea party was an equally valid primary topic, which is a case of WP:DIFFCAPS similar to Red Meat vs. Red meat. Both titles can be primary for their respective topics. — Sangdeboeuf ( talk) 14:55, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
Artix Kreiger ( talk · contribs · logs) closed this move stating "NOT moved per WP:SNOW". The move discussion was open for about 3.5 hours and only 4 comments had been gathered. Also, per WP:RMCI it was a non-admin closure, but not that fact wasn't indicated by the closer. Unfortunately, this early closure has "snowballed" even further, leading to a related move discussion ( Talk:Exercise (disambiguation)#Requested move 21 March 2018) to be opened premised on the contested close, and several voters in that are citing this close as justification. I believe, at minimum, the close should be updated to reflect the fact that it was closed very early and very few people had a chance to participate and changed to "no consensus" rather than "not moved". I don't believe it needs to be reopened directly, but I don't think there should be any prejudice if someone does in the future. -- Netoholic @ 14:20, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
Closed with the rationale "per
WP:COMMONNAME", though a reading of the discussion shows (a) WP:COMMONNAME is an invalid rationale, despite being brought up by several early commenters (some of whom later recognized this fact), and (b) there was no consensus on what name the article should be moved to—there were several proposals, and several supporters of a move per se were opposed to "Suzukake Nanchara".
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
Discussion still ongoing, and no consensus had yet been reached - which should mean the page stays where it is (long-standing name) until an actual consensus is reached. 2Q ( talk) 20:43, 11 March 2018 (UTC) User:Paine Ellsworth closed ongoing discussion, and the result is unfair. The result must be no consensus under the present state . User:Paine Ellsworth is not an uninvolved editor per [1]. WP:Requested moves#Closing instructions was not followed. Sawol ( talk) 12:18, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
As noted on the talk page of the closer TonyBallioni, under the section Move review, the move in question should be reviewed on several grounds. Regarding the relation between the title and the content, it should be pointed out that the article in question is one of general denominational articles on negative sentiments and animosities towards particular communities, in this case towards the Eastern Orthodox Christianity. In other words, by its very content and previous title scope, it belonges to the same class of wide-scope articles like Anti-Catholicism or Anti-Protestantism. It should also be noted that earlier in February, a failed attempt was made to delete this article (see: Articles for deletion: Anti-Orthodoxy). Only after that, a proposal for the move emerged, from the same group of users who previously tried to delete the article. During discussion on the move, consensus was reached, in principle, to rename the article, but there was no clear consensus on style and scope of the new title, and therefore the closer was faced with quite a complex task. During the discussion, two possible solutions emerged. Initial proposal was implying change of style, and reduction of scope to "persecution" only. Unfortunately, during the entire discussion, proponents of the reduction did not state a single word of explanation, and they did not respond to any of the questions raised on the problem of reduction. In other words, there was no discussion on the subject. On the other hand, in order to preserve style and scope, the counter-proposal also emerged, based on official terminology used by the FBI as designation for negative sentiments and animosities towards Eastern Orthodox Christianity (see more than 800 hits on Google Search for the FBI use of the official term for "Anti-Eastern Orthodox" sentiment). In spite of that, the reduction proposal was carried out, the style was changed and the scope reduced to the "persecution" only. It should be noted that during the discussion it was pointed out that similar denominational articles like Anti-Catholicism or Anti-Protestantism have not been subjected to such reduction, since Persecution of Catholics correctly redirects to Anti-Catholicism as a wider concept, and Persecution of Protestants correctly redirects to Anti-Protestantism, also a wider concept. Therefore, applying different criteria to similar denominational article on anti-Eastern Orthodox sentiment could be perceived as an example of double standards and unfortunate violation of some basic values, as defined by Wikipedia rules and policies. Again, it should be pointed out that the closer had a very difficult task, since this was one of those cases when a very important and complex issue, regarding here the general article on negative sentiments towards an entire denomination, is discussed by only a handful of users, during few days, while it is clear that such complex issues require wider participation, longer discussion, and solutions that are based on the actual scope and contents of the article in question. Sorabino ( talk) 00:04, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
Low turnout (only four other editors participated) and general lack of policy-based arguments on the "oppose" side should really have resulted in a state of no consensus per WP:NOTMOVED. Besides myself, only one other editor ( Shadow007) used valid policy-or-guideline-based reasoning. Two other editors ( Netoholic and Randy Kryn) argued that Tea Party movement could not be the primary topic for the term Tea Party because Boston Tea Party was more significant. However, this ignores WP:PTM which makes clear that terms that are not likely to be confused don't belong on the same disambiguation page. A fourth editor ( Certes) appeared to suggest that Tea party was an equally valid primary topic, which is a case of WP:DIFFCAPS similar to Red Meat vs. Red meat. Both titles can be primary for their respective topics. — Sangdeboeuf ( talk) 14:55, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |