- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the debate was Keep. An evaluation of the below discussion does not suggest to me that there is a consensus in support of deleting or moving to inactive this project, and indeed, I'm not sure the nominator's rationale is a sound one (specifically: that a user has made troublesome edits does not devalue the contribution under consideration—ie., WikiProject VVMAP).
Having said all of this, the projet does need some serious fine-tuning, and it may be worth considering whether it is a worthwhile venture, and whether our time can be better spent improving the encyclopedia in other ways. Ultimately, time will tell, of course: if the project is not a great idea, activity will be minimal, and it'll slip away.
But no, there is a consensus against deletion here; by default, the result is Keep. Anthøny ( talk) 00:09, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
Rather fishy looking WikiProject, created by a user who's made some troublesome edits in the past. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ( Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 23:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
- Fishy edits?-- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 02:43, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Delete You want users to upload the videos to You Tube and then link them? That's a copy-vio. CWii( Talk| Contribs) 23:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
- No, you don't get the purpose, the project is designed for users to upload THEIR videos they made themselves to YouTube as well as wikipedia. The purpose is so people can easily use the videos in other places, and not just exclusively wikipeida, especially with wikipedias very rare perfered video file, .ogv. People that contribute to the project are uplaoding their user created content, they are not just pulling things off of youtube. The projects main goal to expand the currently very limited selection of videos on Wikipedia and as well make in easy for users to use video for educational purposes off of Wikipedia. This website i made for a class project is a great example of what i mean by "off-site educational use" Raver class project, navigate through the pages and you will find how we used video multi-media for educational purposes. See the article San Diego Trolley for an example of how a video of a page.-- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 00:49, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- When you upload the videos to youtube they become copyrighted. Thus causing a problem here on wiki.
CWii(
Talk|
Contribs)
01:04, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- No, i can upload a video to the Wikimedia commons aswell as YouTube, there is no where on YouTube that says once you upload a video to YouTube you can never upload or use the video anywhere else, you are sadly mistaken. People upload their videos to personal blogs, websites, etc. and well as YouTube all the time, C-SPAN, a cable channel, uplaods their videos on their site as-well as youtube. Please try re-reading what i said, i don't think you understand the concept.-- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 01:14, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- When you upload the videos to youtube they become copyrighted. Thus causing a problem here on wiki.
CWii(
Talk|
Contribs)
01:04, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think you know what copyright means, and how it affects wikipedia. When a something is copyrighted it is owned by the copyright owner. On Wikipedia we take copyright seriously. We something is copyrighted on another site we cannot have it here. This is for legal reasons. All videos on YouTube are copyrighted.
CWii(
Talk|
Contribs)
01:41, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- The question is not if I understand copyright's, yeah i clearly get that, it's you who is not understanding the concept of how this project works. Go to the project page, see the video with the red trolley?, i made that video myself. I, being the creator and owner to the rights of that video uploaded it to the wikimedia commons as well as youtube. There is no issue, i am assuming you think the project just takes videos that are found on YouTuve and re uploads them here, no, that is false, the creators of the video uploads the video themselves to both YouTube and Wikmedia, that is not a copyright violation.-- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 02:03, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think you know what copyright means, and how it affects wikipedia. When a something is copyrighted it is owned by the copyright owner. On Wikipedia we take copyright seriously. We something is copyrighted on another site we cannot have it here. This is for legal reasons. All videos on YouTube are copyrighted.
CWii(
Talk|
Contribs)
01:41, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Keep, see comment i left above.-- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 00:49, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Keep I don't see anything fishy, and there is no copyvio issue here. -- Ned Scott 03:35, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Keep I think it's a great idea and I am kind of offended that someone would actually nominate this great idea for deletion.-- 216.115.235.50 ( talk) 03:50, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- No very strong reason to delete, no strong reason to keep:
- While I don’t see anything good in this project, it does not seem to violate YouTube’s Terms (6.1/E/ii of the Russian version, since YouTube won’t let me see the English version). That is, if Cooljuno filmed the movie of the tram on his own.
- By uploading a video to YouTube, you give it a nonexclusive license on the video (Terms:10).
- Proprietary patented formats are by no means better for Commons than open free formats. People should learn to use free formats, not use proprietary software to view illustrations of a free encyclopedia.
- YouTube prohibits downloading videos from it, it only allows streaming.
- The only, very little because of the above, good would be traffic distribution. Also, it is better if people upload files to Commons and YouTube, than if they upload there files only to YouTube.
- So, very very weak conditional keep: require a prominent link to Commons in the YouTube descriptions, probably with a format and downloadability mention. None of these conditions is satisfied in the first video of the project.
- Also, requiring a certain free license is not very good; that paragraph should be clarified as to whether other licenses are allowed to be added.
- -- AVRS ( talk) 12:23, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Delete. While I do not see anything “fishy” about the WikiProject, some stuff on YouTube is taken from other, copyrighted sources
, for which reason linking to YouTube is strongly discouraged by policy. Monitoring to make sure that only original videos are used will create a lot of work for a lot of people, unless we have actual administrators (that is, users who are trusted by the community) who are willing to commit to this. Bwrs ( talk) 14:31, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- People are uploading their own content, as i said above, this project is not taking thing found on YouTube, user upload the files that THEY made, i recommend you reread the project page, because it appears you are miss informed. The project aims for users to dual uploads video to Wikipedia as well as YouTube, to allow easier use of media. The .ogv video format that wikipedia uses is a very rare format, for me to convert a video i had to download special terminal commands for my mac, i could not find any program that allows me to view or create this very odd file format. This projects goal is to make it easy to use videos found on Wikipedia, and aswell promote greater use of video files on wikipedia.-- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 19:47, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Comment - If you look at WikiProject Images and Media lineage, you will see that WikiProject Animated Wikipedia works to distribute Wikipedia stored animated video in Wikipedia. However, there is no WikiProject dedicated to creating/improvement or acquiring animated video. WikiProject VVMAP seems to fill that need. I would change the name to something apparent from the name itself. Also, you should run the WikiProject past Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals.-- Suntag ☼ 10:09, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
- Change, rename and Move. It needs to be changed to a proposal, renamed to Wikiproject:Video, and moved onto
Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals. If there's agreement to start the project, this page can be recreated. I don't understand the inclusion of youtube here. We link to youtube from articles sometimes, but not often, and only when there's no free equivalent. We're trying to build a repository of free-content material. Encouraging people to upload video to commons is a fine thing, but encouraging them to upload to youtube as well is beyond our scope. --
HughCharlesParker (
talk -
contribs)
14:52, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Proposals are not required for a WikiProject to start, they're just one way to see if there is interest in an idea for one. -- Ned Scott 06:05, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
- Delete, WP:EL prohibits the majority of links to Youtube. Stifle ( talk) 11:52, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
- False. -- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 20:24, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
- False? I don't think so. Perhaps looking at WP:EL might of prevented that comment. It clearly states YouTube linking in the guildline, what's false about that? Clarify your accusation Cooljuno411, or don't bother even making a statement like that. — Hucz ( talk · contribs) 22:44, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the debate was Keep. An evaluation of the below discussion does not suggest to me that there is a consensus in support of deleting or moving to inactive this project, and indeed, I'm not sure the nominator's rationale is a sound one (specifically: that a user has made troublesome edits does not devalue the contribution under consideration—ie., WikiProject VVMAP).
Having said all of this, the projet does need some serious fine-tuning, and it may be worth considering whether it is a worthwhile venture, and whether our time can be better spent improving the encyclopedia in other ways. Ultimately, time will tell, of course: if the project is not a great idea, activity will be minimal, and it'll slip away.
But no, there is a consensus against deletion here; by default, the result is Keep. Anthøny ( talk) 00:09, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
Rather fishy looking WikiProject, created by a user who's made some troublesome edits in the past. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ( Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 23:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
- Fishy edits?-- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 02:43, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Delete You want users to upload the videos to You Tube and then link them? That's a copy-vio. CWii( Talk| Contribs) 23:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
- No, you don't get the purpose, the project is designed for users to upload THEIR videos they made themselves to YouTube as well as wikipedia. The purpose is so people can easily use the videos in other places, and not just exclusively wikipeida, especially with wikipedias very rare perfered video file, .ogv. People that contribute to the project are uplaoding their user created content, they are not just pulling things off of youtube. The projects main goal to expand the currently very limited selection of videos on Wikipedia and as well make in easy for users to use video for educational purposes off of Wikipedia. This website i made for a class project is a great example of what i mean by "off-site educational use" Raver class project, navigate through the pages and you will find how we used video multi-media for educational purposes. See the article San Diego Trolley for an example of how a video of a page.-- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 00:49, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- When you upload the videos to youtube they become copyrighted. Thus causing a problem here on wiki.
CWii(
Talk|
Contribs)
01:04, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- No, i can upload a video to the Wikimedia commons aswell as YouTube, there is no where on YouTube that says once you upload a video to YouTube you can never upload or use the video anywhere else, you are sadly mistaken. People upload their videos to personal blogs, websites, etc. and well as YouTube all the time, C-SPAN, a cable channel, uplaods their videos on their site as-well as youtube. Please try re-reading what i said, i don't think you understand the concept.-- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 01:14, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- When you upload the videos to youtube they become copyrighted. Thus causing a problem here on wiki.
CWii(
Talk|
Contribs)
01:04, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think you know what copyright means, and how it affects wikipedia. When a something is copyrighted it is owned by the copyright owner. On Wikipedia we take copyright seriously. We something is copyrighted on another site we cannot have it here. This is for legal reasons. All videos on YouTube are copyrighted.
CWii(
Talk|
Contribs)
01:41, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- The question is not if I understand copyright's, yeah i clearly get that, it's you who is not understanding the concept of how this project works. Go to the project page, see the video with the red trolley?, i made that video myself. I, being the creator and owner to the rights of that video uploaded it to the wikimedia commons as well as youtube. There is no issue, i am assuming you think the project just takes videos that are found on YouTuve and re uploads them here, no, that is false, the creators of the video uploads the video themselves to both YouTube and Wikmedia, that is not a copyright violation.-- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 02:03, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think you know what copyright means, and how it affects wikipedia. When a something is copyrighted it is owned by the copyright owner. On Wikipedia we take copyright seriously. We something is copyrighted on another site we cannot have it here. This is for legal reasons. All videos on YouTube are copyrighted.
CWii(
Talk|
Contribs)
01:41, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Keep, see comment i left above.-- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 00:49, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Keep I don't see anything fishy, and there is no copyvio issue here. -- Ned Scott 03:35, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Keep I think it's a great idea and I am kind of offended that someone would actually nominate this great idea for deletion.-- 216.115.235.50 ( talk) 03:50, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- No very strong reason to delete, no strong reason to keep:
- While I don’t see anything good in this project, it does not seem to violate YouTube’s Terms (6.1/E/ii of the Russian version, since YouTube won’t let me see the English version). That is, if Cooljuno filmed the movie of the tram on his own.
- By uploading a video to YouTube, you give it a nonexclusive license on the video (Terms:10).
- Proprietary patented formats are by no means better for Commons than open free formats. People should learn to use free formats, not use proprietary software to view illustrations of a free encyclopedia.
- YouTube prohibits downloading videos from it, it only allows streaming.
- The only, very little because of the above, good would be traffic distribution. Also, it is better if people upload files to Commons and YouTube, than if they upload there files only to YouTube.
- So, very very weak conditional keep: require a prominent link to Commons in the YouTube descriptions, probably with a format and downloadability mention. None of these conditions is satisfied in the first video of the project.
- Also, requiring a certain free license is not very good; that paragraph should be clarified as to whether other licenses are allowed to be added.
- -- AVRS ( talk) 12:23, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Delete. While I do not see anything “fishy” about the WikiProject, some stuff on YouTube is taken from other, copyrighted sources
, for which reason linking to YouTube is strongly discouraged by policy. Monitoring to make sure that only original videos are used will create a lot of work for a lot of people, unless we have actual administrators (that is, users who are trusted by the community) who are willing to commit to this. Bwrs ( talk) 14:31, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- People are uploading their own content, as i said above, this project is not taking thing found on YouTube, user upload the files that THEY made, i recommend you reread the project page, because it appears you are miss informed. The project aims for users to dual uploads video to Wikipedia as well as YouTube, to allow easier use of media. The .ogv video format that wikipedia uses is a very rare format, for me to convert a video i had to download special terminal commands for my mac, i could not find any program that allows me to view or create this very odd file format. This projects goal is to make it easy to use videos found on Wikipedia, and aswell promote greater use of video files on wikipedia.-- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 19:47, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Comment - If you look at WikiProject Images and Media lineage, you will see that WikiProject Animated Wikipedia works to distribute Wikipedia stored animated video in Wikipedia. However, there is no WikiProject dedicated to creating/improvement or acquiring animated video. WikiProject VVMAP seems to fill that need. I would change the name to something apparent from the name itself. Also, you should run the WikiProject past Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals.-- Suntag ☼ 10:09, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
- Change, rename and Move. It needs to be changed to a proposal, renamed to Wikiproject:Video, and moved onto
Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals. If there's agreement to start the project, this page can be recreated. I don't understand the inclusion of youtube here. We link to youtube from articles sometimes, but not often, and only when there's no free equivalent. We're trying to build a repository of free-content material. Encouraging people to upload video to commons is a fine thing, but encouraging them to upload to youtube as well is beyond our scope. --
HughCharlesParker (
talk -
contribs)
14:52, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- Proposals are not required for a WikiProject to start, they're just one way to see if there is interest in an idea for one. -- Ned Scott 06:05, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
- Delete, WP:EL prohibits the majority of links to Youtube. Stifle ( talk) 11:52, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
- False. -- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 20:24, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
- False? I don't think so. Perhaps looking at WP:EL might of prevented that comment. It clearly states YouTube linking in the guildline, what's false about that? Clarify your accusation Cooljuno411, or don't bother even making a statement like that. — Hucz ( talk · contribs) 22:44, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.