The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Keep unless the project says that they don't want it. It doesn't look like the purpose of the page is entirely humourous and it is for the project to decide what pages they do and do not want. Hut 8.5 17:59, 25 July 2011 (UTC) change to Delete since the project evidently doesn't want it. Hut 8.510:42, 26 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete - WPTC project member - Do we really need this? Some of the facts he has put down are wrong, eg: There will never be another TC named Katrina or Wilma after the Atlantic versions of 2005 as there was another
Wilma earlier this year. There is a lot of stuff there that we do not need written down as it is common sense eg "A tropical cyclone is not a blizzard".
Jason Rees (
talk)
19:51, 25 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete as a project member. And delete all of the redirects and page creations for each of the individual what a TC is not.
Inks.LWC (
talk)
21:18, 25 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Comment I'm not going to go against my fellow hurricaniphiles. If you guys want it gone, absolutely then so be it. I just wasn't gonna give it in to Wazowski, who is not a project member, hurricaniphile, or correct about the page's nature. Although I didn't say anything about wilma... But anyway, if the general in-project consensus develops to delete it, I support that 100%.
--Bowser the Storm Tracker Keeping the skies brightChat Me Up00:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Yea you didnt say anything about Wilma but you did say about Katrina so i chose to use Wilma as a decent example of what i was rattling on about.
Jason Rees (
talk)
00:20, 26 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Well, personal vendettas have no place on WP, and "hurricaniphile" is a wholly inappropriate term in addition. But I also move to delete this page as largely inaccurate and entirely useless for our purposes (nothing personal, of course).
Juliancolton (
talk)
00:23, 26 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete While boldness is good, there has to be a community benefit for pages to exist in the Wikipedia namespace (or in other namespaces, for that matter). We are here to build the encyclopedia, not to create unclear essays.
Johnuniq (
talk)
00:30, 26 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete. Of very, very limited use. I'm not one of the "guys" (apparently the hurricane folk are guys), mind you, but it seems they have spoken clearly. And there are dozens of redirects attached to this page. All this is taking up too much server space.
Drmies (
talk)
00:56, 26 July 2011 (UTC)reply
(
edit conflict) Which is irrelevant, since the page in your userspace can be
speedy deleted as a recreation of validly deleted content unless there is consensus to userfy or allow the page to stay in your user space—and I personally don't think that page should stay, even in your userspace.
Titoxd(
?!? -
cool stuff)01:37, 27 July 2011 (UTC)reply
The reason for deletion is not voided by putting the page in your user space, since the deletion rationale is that the material in it is inappropriate for Wikipedia, not whether WPTC wants it in its project space.
Titoxd(
?!? -
cool stuff)01:45, 27 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Just delete period - This is an eyesore. No one but the editor who made it has an interest in it. Plus it has absolutely no encyclopedic value. As for the user in question, accusing people of personal attacks with absolutely no evidence is rather incivil. Strange Passerby didn't accuse you of stupidity. You've implied it that way, but Strange Passerby did not outright call you stupid. Mitch32(
Can someone turn on the damnair conditioning?)18:22, 26 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Snowball delete - per nom and feedback from members of the related WikiProject. Note: this type of content may be more suitable at
http://hurricanes.wikia.com or
http://weather.wikia.com instead of Wikipedia (not saying it is more suitable, just that it may be more suitable - depends on the comunity at those Wikis on how they would receive the content). ---
Barek (
talk •
contribs) -
18:26, 26 July 2011 (UTC)reply
I'm pretty sure myself and most other members of WPTC and of the encyclopedia itself are trying to
WP:AGF in this instance. Creating "evacuation" templates, typing in larger font sizes, and creating pages about how not to do something are not helping your cause. If you are serious about weather, then go to one of the projects and find something to work on. On Wikipedia there is always something that needs to be done. -Marcusmax(
speak) 02:38, 27 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Objection to userfying - Why should this exist period, Wikipedia namespace or Userspace? This has no encyclopedic value and considering the editor in question here seems to be getting less civil, writing in disruptive text (which really should be removed by an uninvolved admin). This is a joke page. I am a fan of
WP:BJAODN, but this should be somewhere like that, not in userspace. It has no value and why this is still open is beyond me.Mitch32(
Can someone turn on the damnair conditioning?)21:41, 27 July 2011 (UTC)reply
There is a very large dose of IDIDNTHEARTHAT here. Wikipedia is not a personal website where people store stuff that interests them. Everything (whether user space or not) is supposed to help the encyclopedia. Just consider all of the time from independent editors that is being wasted in this outbreak of nonsense—that alone should cause any collaborative editor to immediately desist and to ask for all their inappropriate pages to be removed.
Johnuniq (
talk)
00:32, 29 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete anyway. Moving it to userspace is just sweeping it under the rug and pretending it doesn't exist. If we don't want it, we don't want it. Ten Pound Hammer,
his otters and a clue-bat • (
Otters want attention)00:12, 28 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Listen, guys, there are some important things
here which are often misconceived. Not a Coastal Storm, Not a tornado, Not a tsunami, Not a Nor'Easter, Not Always Tropical, Not a Point, and Does Not Turn This, That, or the Other Way are all common myths and misconceptions which put people's lives in danger all the time. This is a guide to all of the misconceptions which are not true. It isn't a joke, It isn't nonsense, It isn't wrong, It isn't inappropriate, It is the difference between life and death. I am sorry if one or two users thought it was a joke, I am sorry if the tone mad too much light of the subject, but it is about discrediting misconceptions. You guys, having an interest in WPTC, can understand those issues, right? Everybody in the field has run into one of those internet idiots who thinks that landfall is required for damage; or that severe damage is limited to the coast; or that the storms all go this way or that and miss them; or that living in New York City somehow makes them safe. Those people have a dangerous misguided complacency which is as life threatening as the storm itself. A few of the other ones are just advice for article writers, but the list I have given here (also on the page in question) is life and death information. Saving the life of a well-informed person is easy. Saving the life of an ignorant one is not. If ignorant, TC-uneducated lives mean anything to this project, then this is not inappropriate. If those people mean anything to this project, then just leave it be in my userspace.
--Bowser the Storm Tracker Keeping skies brightChat Me Up01:50, 29 July 2011 (UTC)reply
I have never heard someone mistake a tropical cyclone for a tsunami or Nor'Easter. And I've never met someone who think they just reverse course in the opposite direction. Who exactly are you planning on saving? There's plenty of information on the page
Hurricane as well as resources such as the National Hurricane Center that do this. No offense, but I doubt anybody is going to link to your "evacuated" page as a guide to understanding tropical systems.
Inks.LWC (
talk)
06:21, 29 July 2011 (UTC)reply
"Is Not a Tsunami" is about people who think that the storm surge is the only thing which can completely destroy a house, and is the opposite of "Is Not a Tornado". "Is Not a Nor'Easter" is about the difference between "landfall" and "direct hit" and even "indirect hit" and how any of the above can be very severe. "Does Not Turn This, That, or the Other Way" is about all of the people in places like Savannah, GA; Pensacola, FL; Washington, DC; and (formerly) New Orleans, LA who have had dangerous urban myths, logical fallacies, and complacency sown in by a few years without a TC strike. And, frankly, the I've had to rm that they form "almost exclusively in the tropical regions", which supports the idea that a TC is always tropical, to replace it with "often in the tropical regions". The TC article is very good, but it does not have what it needs for this, a misconceptions section and a full sweep for removing misconceptions. As for who's gonna see it, I don't know, but the same is true of any user-essay. The point is it is not inappropriate nor a joke. It is really about discrediting all of those misconceptions.
--Bowser the Storm Tracker Keeping skies brightChat Me Up13:03, 29 July 2011 (UTC)reply
No offense, but who is actually going to look this up and read your information about what a tropical cyclone is not. It was so hidden that WPTC members actually had no idea it existed in our project space until someone from outside the project notified us. So how would the "uneducated mind" ever find such an obscure page. Wikipedia
is not your blog, if you wish to write on this topic bring it to a different site. -Marcusmax(
speak) 13:38, 29 July 2011 (UTC)reply
May I also point out that Wikipedia is not a "Personal essay", a "Personal web page", an "Instruction manuel" (you're saying what a tropical cyclone is not, that borders instructions), or an "Internet guide" (see previous). ♫
Hurricanehink (
talk)
19:25, 29 July 2011 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Keep unless the project says that they don't want it. It doesn't look like the purpose of the page is entirely humourous and it is for the project to decide what pages they do and do not want. Hut 8.5 17:59, 25 July 2011 (UTC) change to Delete since the project evidently doesn't want it. Hut 8.510:42, 26 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete - WPTC project member - Do we really need this? Some of the facts he has put down are wrong, eg: There will never be another TC named Katrina or Wilma after the Atlantic versions of 2005 as there was another
Wilma earlier this year. There is a lot of stuff there that we do not need written down as it is common sense eg "A tropical cyclone is not a blizzard".
Jason Rees (
talk)
19:51, 25 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete as a project member. And delete all of the redirects and page creations for each of the individual what a TC is not.
Inks.LWC (
talk)
21:18, 25 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Comment I'm not going to go against my fellow hurricaniphiles. If you guys want it gone, absolutely then so be it. I just wasn't gonna give it in to Wazowski, who is not a project member, hurricaniphile, or correct about the page's nature. Although I didn't say anything about wilma... But anyway, if the general in-project consensus develops to delete it, I support that 100%.
--Bowser the Storm Tracker Keeping the skies brightChat Me Up00:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Yea you didnt say anything about Wilma but you did say about Katrina so i chose to use Wilma as a decent example of what i was rattling on about.
Jason Rees (
talk)
00:20, 26 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Well, personal vendettas have no place on WP, and "hurricaniphile" is a wholly inappropriate term in addition. But I also move to delete this page as largely inaccurate and entirely useless for our purposes (nothing personal, of course).
Juliancolton (
talk)
00:23, 26 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete While boldness is good, there has to be a community benefit for pages to exist in the Wikipedia namespace (or in other namespaces, for that matter). We are here to build the encyclopedia, not to create unclear essays.
Johnuniq (
talk)
00:30, 26 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete. Of very, very limited use. I'm not one of the "guys" (apparently the hurricane folk are guys), mind you, but it seems they have spoken clearly. And there are dozens of redirects attached to this page. All this is taking up too much server space.
Drmies (
talk)
00:56, 26 July 2011 (UTC)reply
(
edit conflict) Which is irrelevant, since the page in your userspace can be
speedy deleted as a recreation of validly deleted content unless there is consensus to userfy or allow the page to stay in your user space—and I personally don't think that page should stay, even in your userspace.
Titoxd(
?!? -
cool stuff)01:37, 27 July 2011 (UTC)reply
The reason for deletion is not voided by putting the page in your user space, since the deletion rationale is that the material in it is inappropriate for Wikipedia, not whether WPTC wants it in its project space.
Titoxd(
?!? -
cool stuff)01:45, 27 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Just delete period - This is an eyesore. No one but the editor who made it has an interest in it. Plus it has absolutely no encyclopedic value. As for the user in question, accusing people of personal attacks with absolutely no evidence is rather incivil. Strange Passerby didn't accuse you of stupidity. You've implied it that way, but Strange Passerby did not outright call you stupid. Mitch32(
Can someone turn on the damnair conditioning?)18:22, 26 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Snowball delete - per nom and feedback from members of the related WikiProject. Note: this type of content may be more suitable at
http://hurricanes.wikia.com or
http://weather.wikia.com instead of Wikipedia (not saying it is more suitable, just that it may be more suitable - depends on the comunity at those Wikis on how they would receive the content). ---
Barek (
talk •
contribs) -
18:26, 26 July 2011 (UTC)reply
I'm pretty sure myself and most other members of WPTC and of the encyclopedia itself are trying to
WP:AGF in this instance. Creating "evacuation" templates, typing in larger font sizes, and creating pages about how not to do something are not helping your cause. If you are serious about weather, then go to one of the projects and find something to work on. On Wikipedia there is always something that needs to be done. -Marcusmax(
speak) 02:38, 27 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Objection to userfying - Why should this exist period, Wikipedia namespace or Userspace? This has no encyclopedic value and considering the editor in question here seems to be getting less civil, writing in disruptive text (which really should be removed by an uninvolved admin). This is a joke page. I am a fan of
WP:BJAODN, but this should be somewhere like that, not in userspace. It has no value and why this is still open is beyond me.Mitch32(
Can someone turn on the damnair conditioning?)21:41, 27 July 2011 (UTC)reply
There is a very large dose of IDIDNTHEARTHAT here. Wikipedia is not a personal website where people store stuff that interests them. Everything (whether user space or not) is supposed to help the encyclopedia. Just consider all of the time from independent editors that is being wasted in this outbreak of nonsense—that alone should cause any collaborative editor to immediately desist and to ask for all their inappropriate pages to be removed.
Johnuniq (
talk)
00:32, 29 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete anyway. Moving it to userspace is just sweeping it under the rug and pretending it doesn't exist. If we don't want it, we don't want it. Ten Pound Hammer,
his otters and a clue-bat • (
Otters want attention)00:12, 28 July 2011 (UTC)reply
Listen, guys, there are some important things
here which are often misconceived. Not a Coastal Storm, Not a tornado, Not a tsunami, Not a Nor'Easter, Not Always Tropical, Not a Point, and Does Not Turn This, That, or the Other Way are all common myths and misconceptions which put people's lives in danger all the time. This is a guide to all of the misconceptions which are not true. It isn't a joke, It isn't nonsense, It isn't wrong, It isn't inappropriate, It is the difference between life and death. I am sorry if one or two users thought it was a joke, I am sorry if the tone mad too much light of the subject, but it is about discrediting misconceptions. You guys, having an interest in WPTC, can understand those issues, right? Everybody in the field has run into one of those internet idiots who thinks that landfall is required for damage; or that severe damage is limited to the coast; or that the storms all go this way or that and miss them; or that living in New York City somehow makes them safe. Those people have a dangerous misguided complacency which is as life threatening as the storm itself. A few of the other ones are just advice for article writers, but the list I have given here (also on the page in question) is life and death information. Saving the life of a well-informed person is easy. Saving the life of an ignorant one is not. If ignorant, TC-uneducated lives mean anything to this project, then this is not inappropriate. If those people mean anything to this project, then just leave it be in my userspace.
--Bowser the Storm Tracker Keeping skies brightChat Me Up01:50, 29 July 2011 (UTC)reply
I have never heard someone mistake a tropical cyclone for a tsunami or Nor'Easter. And I've never met someone who think they just reverse course in the opposite direction. Who exactly are you planning on saving? There's plenty of information on the page
Hurricane as well as resources such as the National Hurricane Center that do this. No offense, but I doubt anybody is going to link to your "evacuated" page as a guide to understanding tropical systems.
Inks.LWC (
talk)
06:21, 29 July 2011 (UTC)reply
"Is Not a Tsunami" is about people who think that the storm surge is the only thing which can completely destroy a house, and is the opposite of "Is Not a Tornado". "Is Not a Nor'Easter" is about the difference between "landfall" and "direct hit" and even "indirect hit" and how any of the above can be very severe. "Does Not Turn This, That, or the Other Way" is about all of the people in places like Savannah, GA; Pensacola, FL; Washington, DC; and (formerly) New Orleans, LA who have had dangerous urban myths, logical fallacies, and complacency sown in by a few years without a TC strike. And, frankly, the I've had to rm that they form "almost exclusively in the tropical regions", which supports the idea that a TC is always tropical, to replace it with "often in the tropical regions". The TC article is very good, but it does not have what it needs for this, a misconceptions section and a full sweep for removing misconceptions. As for who's gonna see it, I don't know, but the same is true of any user-essay. The point is it is not inappropriate nor a joke. It is really about discrediting all of those misconceptions.
--Bowser the Storm Tracker Keeping skies brightChat Me Up13:03, 29 July 2011 (UTC)reply
No offense, but who is actually going to look this up and read your information about what a tropical cyclone is not. It was so hidden that WPTC members actually had no idea it existed in our project space until someone from outside the project notified us. So how would the "uneducated mind" ever find such an obscure page. Wikipedia
is not your blog, if you wish to write on this topic bring it to a different site. -Marcusmax(
speak) 13:38, 29 July 2011 (UTC)reply
May I also point out that Wikipedia is not a "Personal essay", a "Personal web page", an "Instruction manuel" (you're saying what a tropical cyclone is not, that borders instructions), or an "Internet guide" (see previous). ♫
Hurricanehink (
talk)
19:25, 29 July 2011 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.