- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the discussion was delete page; no effect on userboxes listed there.-- Aervanath ( talk) 11:14, 31 January 2009 (UTC) – Aervanath ( talk) 11:14, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
Wikiprojects are about neutral content. Bad enough that biased userboxes are in userspace, but wikiproject should not be encouraging them. This is particularly unhelpful in heated areas like this. Scott Mac (Doc) 12:04, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- Keep or Userify. Many wikiprojects have userboxes, some with opinions on the underlying subject. What profit will deleting this list page be to Wikipedia? It won't get rid of the boxes, and getting rid of the boxes won't change the editors' opinions. (And what right have we to do so? WP has no position on whether Kosovo should be in the European Union.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 14:33, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- Wikiproject userboxes themselves are fine. But wikiprojects are a collection of people working for neutrality, not unions of people with a POV. No, we are not in the business of changing opinions, but we are in the business of telling people to "leave them at the door". That's difficult enough in Balkan articles without supplying project endorsed bumperstickers to help people celebrate their tribe. Deleting this will not rid us of the userboxes, but it will help prevent the impression that these things are encouraged on this project.--
Scott Mac (Doc)
14:50, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- That's why I suggest userification, to separate it from the Project. But the assertion that a WikiProject is a collection of people working for neutrality, not unions of people with a POV is an outcrop of astounding optimism.
Septentrionalis
PMAnderson
15:35, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is an exercise in astounding optimism. I'm just assuming good faith.-- Scott Mac (Doc) 16:32, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- That's why I suggest userification, to separate it from the Project. But the assertion that a WikiProject is a collection of people working for neutrality, not unions of people with a POV is an outcrop of astounding optimism.
Septentrionalis
PMAnderson
15:35, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- Wikiproject userboxes themselves are fine. But wikiprojects are a collection of people working for neutrality, not unions of people with a POV. No, we are not in the business of changing opinions, but we are in the business of telling people to "leave them at the door". That's difficult enough in Balkan articles without supplying project endorsed bumperstickers to help people celebrate their tribe. Deleting this will not rid us of the userboxes, but it will help prevent the impression that these things are encouraged on this project.--
Scott Mac (Doc)
14:50, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- Strong Delete. Userboxes like these damage the encyclopaedia by encouraging users to see themselves in factions and dividing them by their political beliefs. They are of no obvious benefit, turning people's userpages into hosts for political advertisement and POV-pushing. This is not what Wikipedia is for.
Terraxos (
talk)
03:15, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
- The Kosovar editors already see themselves as a faction; so do the Serbs. They would do so even if userboxes had never been devised. If the boxes help them to blow off steam that would otherwise heat articles, so much the better. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:28, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
- WP:NOT a place to blow off steam.-- Scott Mac (Doc) 18:04, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
- Comment. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that only the project page listing these boxes is up for deletion not the userboxes themselves. Thus the question is whether it is usefull, or a good idea, to have a list of these, with various POV's, readily available to wikiproject members or should their deprecation be indicated by not being mentioned in projectpsace at all. Whatever is decided here, the boxes themselves aren't going to be deleted unless I have misunderstood the scope of this MfD. Eluchil404 ( talk) 18:03, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- You are correct.-- Scott Mac (Doc) 18:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the discussion was delete page; no effect on userboxes listed there.-- Aervanath ( talk) 11:14, 31 January 2009 (UTC) – Aervanath ( talk) 11:14, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
Wikiprojects are about neutral content. Bad enough that biased userboxes are in userspace, but wikiproject should not be encouraging them. This is particularly unhelpful in heated areas like this. Scott Mac (Doc) 12:04, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- Keep or Userify. Many wikiprojects have userboxes, some with opinions on the underlying subject. What profit will deleting this list page be to Wikipedia? It won't get rid of the boxes, and getting rid of the boxes won't change the editors' opinions. (And what right have we to do so? WP has no position on whether Kosovo should be in the European Union.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 14:33, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- Wikiproject userboxes themselves are fine. But wikiprojects are a collection of people working for neutrality, not unions of people with a POV. No, we are not in the business of changing opinions, but we are in the business of telling people to "leave them at the door". That's difficult enough in Balkan articles without supplying project endorsed bumperstickers to help people celebrate their tribe. Deleting this will not rid us of the userboxes, but it will help prevent the impression that these things are encouraged on this project.--
Scott Mac (Doc)
14:50, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- That's why I suggest userification, to separate it from the Project. But the assertion that a WikiProject is a collection of people working for neutrality, not unions of people with a POV is an outcrop of astounding optimism.
Septentrionalis
PMAnderson
15:35, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is an exercise in astounding optimism. I'm just assuming good faith.-- Scott Mac (Doc) 16:32, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- That's why I suggest userification, to separate it from the Project. But the assertion that a WikiProject is a collection of people working for neutrality, not unions of people with a POV is an outcrop of astounding optimism.
Septentrionalis
PMAnderson
15:35, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- Wikiproject userboxes themselves are fine. But wikiprojects are a collection of people working for neutrality, not unions of people with a POV. No, we are not in the business of changing opinions, but we are in the business of telling people to "leave them at the door". That's difficult enough in Balkan articles without supplying project endorsed bumperstickers to help people celebrate their tribe. Deleting this will not rid us of the userboxes, but it will help prevent the impression that these things are encouraged on this project.--
Scott Mac (Doc)
14:50, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- Strong Delete. Userboxes like these damage the encyclopaedia by encouraging users to see themselves in factions and dividing them by their political beliefs. They are of no obvious benefit, turning people's userpages into hosts for political advertisement and POV-pushing. This is not what Wikipedia is for.
Terraxos (
talk)
03:15, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
- The Kosovar editors already see themselves as a faction; so do the Serbs. They would do so even if userboxes had never been devised. If the boxes help them to blow off steam that would otherwise heat articles, so much the better. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:28, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
- WP:NOT a place to blow off steam.-- Scott Mac (Doc) 18:04, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
- Comment. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that only the project page listing these boxes is up for deletion not the userboxes themselves. Thus the question is whether it is usefull, or a good idea, to have a list of these, with various POV's, readily available to wikiproject members or should their deprecation be indicated by not being mentioned in projectpsace at all. Whatever is decided here, the boxes themselves aren't going to be deleted unless I have misunderstood the scope of this MfD. Eluchil404 ( talk) 18:03, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- You are correct.-- Scott Mac (Doc) 18:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.