- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the debate was keep. bibliomaniac 15 Midway upon life's journey... 00:11, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Delete: Divisive, inflammatory and unacceptable userbox. Especially the sentence "restoration of the Tsar" is highly controversial and unacceptable. Otolemur crassicaudatus ( talk) 18:12, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep I don't see it as particularly inflammatory. Wanting to restoring the tsar is just a little conservative, and there is no problem with it. It is just like some ppl desiring to make UK a republic (which I remotely recall there is a userbox for that somewhere). Chimeric Glider ( talk) 19:16, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- It is certainly inflammatory. Support for "Restoration of Tsar" is certainly inflammatory. It is like "Restoration of Nazi rule in Germany".
Otolemur crassicaudatus (
talk)
19:41, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- The old tsarist rule was in no way comparable to the Nazi Germany. It's a fallacious analogy. Now if you say that someone makes a userbox to "restore the regime of Joseph Stalin" it would be like the resoring the Nazi rule in Germany. But in terms of atrocity the tsars are totally dwarfed by the governments that replaced them. What would the restoration of the tsar do today? The system of capitalism in Russia would not change and I doubt it would be any more oppressive than the Putin administration. Chimeric Glider ( talk) 19:46, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- Godwin's law doesn't work here, Otolemur. Keep - I can't see how it can possibly be any more inflammatory than userboxes such as "This user is a Fascist."-- WaltCip ( talk) 23:31, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- I invoke Godwin's law. Move along, nothing to see here. (And also Keep) Charon X/ talk 02:53, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- It is certainly inflammatory. Support for "Restoration of Tsar" is certainly inflammatory. It is like "Restoration of Nazi rule in Germany".
Otolemur crassicaudatus (
talk)
19:41, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep It only wants a Constitutional monarchy. Zginder ( talk) ( Contrib) 19:23, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep An odd opinion, perhaps, but I don't see it as being anything truly offensive.~ Mazca ( talk) 20:28, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep It is carefully worded to be non inflammatory. It does not impose its opinion, and does not propose violence or anything illegal. Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 21:54, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep Like all users above me i see nothing inflamatory or controversial in it and i wish it to be kept. -- Oren neu dag ( talk) 01:17, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep. We generally give editors a lot of leeway to create userboxes in their own userspace, which this one is. -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 06:28, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- Very strong keep Nothing inflamatory here, he just wants a constitunal monarchy. England is a constitutional monarchy.-- 193.120.116.177 ( talk) 14:44, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep - User is expressing a political position, nothing more. There are any number of other userboxes doing basically the same thing. John Carter ( talk) 15:08, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep per above. It doesn't seem to be inflammatory to me. Midorihana ~いいですね? はい！ 03:39, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep as non-inflammatory. I suggest that the nom be sensitive to other cultures before comparing a part of their history with the Nazi. -- Lenticel ( talk) 09:14, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- This userbox is not inflammatory to you, this userbox is not imaflammatory to the Tsar worshipers. But this userbox is inflammatory to those people whose ancestors were killed by the Tsar. This userbox is inflammatory to the peasants died in hunger in the Tsarist regime while the Tsar was busy for his personal gain. This userbox is inflammatory to those people died in hunger before the
October Revolution. What about those who opposed the Tsar and repressed by the Tsar? This userbox is inflammatory to those who died by the Okhrona. I will suggest you to familiarize yourself with the history of Tsarist Russia by reading some historical documents, not by reading a pamphlet released by the
Propagandaministerium of the
Central Intelligence Agency.
Otolemur crassicaudatus (
talk)
18:13, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- I'm as liberal as you can be, but anyone who learned history of Russia can distinguish between the mildly repressive tsarist regime (which even let Lenin read books in prison) and the totalitarian reign of Joseph Stalin and his gulags that claimed the lives of 40 million people. Chimeric Glider ( talk) 18:28, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- One other thing that i should mention. As an israeli of Ukrainian Jewish origin i am also under the category of someone who's ancestors were persecuted by the tsar (e.g. May Laws), and even so i see nothing inflammatory to have a new tsar in russia under a constitutional monarchy. -- Oren neu dag ( talk) 19:03, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- Now you're trying to push a point. This MFD has no grounds. Speedy close.-- WaltCip ( talk) 20:33, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- OC, he wants a constitutional monarchy, if he said that he wants to restore tyranny or kill lots of Jews maybe I'll think I vote delete. Heck I want to restore the Pre-Hispanic era in the Philippines, does that mean I'm a primitivist? Now you liken the CIA as a Nazi tool. I suggest that you lay off the attacks now.-- Lenticel ( talk) 22:15, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- This userbox is not inflammatory to you, this userbox is not imaflammatory to the Tsar worshipers. But this userbox is inflammatory to those people whose ancestors were killed by the Tsar. This userbox is inflammatory to the peasants died in hunger in the Tsarist regime while the Tsar was busy for his personal gain. This userbox is inflammatory to those people died in hunger before the
October Revolution. What about those who opposed the Tsar and repressed by the Tsar? This userbox is inflammatory to those who died by the Okhrona. I will suggest you to familiarize yourself with the history of Tsarist Russia by reading some historical documents, not by reading a pamphlet released by the
Propagandaministerium of the
Central Intelligence Agency.
Otolemur crassicaudatus (
talk)
18:13, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep. In my experience, the general rule is that political userboxes are acceptable (at least for non-admins) provided that they do not attack or denigrate a particular group either explicitly or implicitly. Some, of course, would like to see all such userboxes removed, but this is not policy, and it is well-known that Wikipedia tolerates things it does not condone. Walton One 11:10, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the debate was keep. bibliomaniac 15 Midway upon life's journey... 00:11, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Delete: Divisive, inflammatory and unacceptable userbox. Especially the sentence "restoration of the Tsar" is highly controversial and unacceptable. Otolemur crassicaudatus ( talk) 18:12, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep I don't see it as particularly inflammatory. Wanting to restoring the tsar is just a little conservative, and there is no problem with it. It is just like some ppl desiring to make UK a republic (which I remotely recall there is a userbox for that somewhere). Chimeric Glider ( talk) 19:16, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- It is certainly inflammatory. Support for "Restoration of Tsar" is certainly inflammatory. It is like "Restoration of Nazi rule in Germany".
Otolemur crassicaudatus (
talk)
19:41, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- The old tsarist rule was in no way comparable to the Nazi Germany. It's a fallacious analogy. Now if you say that someone makes a userbox to "restore the regime of Joseph Stalin" it would be like the resoring the Nazi rule in Germany. But in terms of atrocity the tsars are totally dwarfed by the governments that replaced them. What would the restoration of the tsar do today? The system of capitalism in Russia would not change and I doubt it would be any more oppressive than the Putin administration. Chimeric Glider ( talk) 19:46, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- Godwin's law doesn't work here, Otolemur. Keep - I can't see how it can possibly be any more inflammatory than userboxes such as "This user is a Fascist."-- WaltCip ( talk) 23:31, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- I invoke Godwin's law. Move along, nothing to see here. (And also Keep) Charon X/ talk 02:53, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- It is certainly inflammatory. Support for "Restoration of Tsar" is certainly inflammatory. It is like "Restoration of Nazi rule in Germany".
Otolemur crassicaudatus (
talk)
19:41, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep It only wants a Constitutional monarchy. Zginder ( talk) ( Contrib) 19:23, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep An odd opinion, perhaps, but I don't see it as being anything truly offensive.~ Mazca ( talk) 20:28, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep It is carefully worded to be non inflammatory. It does not impose its opinion, and does not propose violence or anything illegal. Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 21:54, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep Like all users above me i see nothing inflamatory or controversial in it and i wish it to be kept. -- Oren neu dag ( talk) 01:17, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep. We generally give editors a lot of leeway to create userboxes in their own userspace, which this one is. -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 06:28, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- Very strong keep Nothing inflamatory here, he just wants a constitunal monarchy. England is a constitutional monarchy.-- 193.120.116.177 ( talk) 14:44, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep - User is expressing a political position, nothing more. There are any number of other userboxes doing basically the same thing. John Carter ( talk) 15:08, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep per above. It doesn't seem to be inflammatory to me. Midorihana ~いいですね? はい！ 03:39, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep as non-inflammatory. I suggest that the nom be sensitive to other cultures before comparing a part of their history with the Nazi. -- Lenticel ( talk) 09:14, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- This userbox is not inflammatory to you, this userbox is not imaflammatory to the Tsar worshipers. But this userbox is inflammatory to those people whose ancestors were killed by the Tsar. This userbox is inflammatory to the peasants died in hunger in the Tsarist regime while the Tsar was busy for his personal gain. This userbox is inflammatory to those people died in hunger before the
October Revolution. What about those who opposed the Tsar and repressed by the Tsar? This userbox is inflammatory to those who died by the Okhrona. I will suggest you to familiarize yourself with the history of Tsarist Russia by reading some historical documents, not by reading a pamphlet released by the
Propagandaministerium of the
Central Intelligence Agency.
Otolemur crassicaudatus (
talk)
18:13, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- I'm as liberal as you can be, but anyone who learned history of Russia can distinguish between the mildly repressive tsarist regime (which even let Lenin read books in prison) and the totalitarian reign of Joseph Stalin and his gulags that claimed the lives of 40 million people. Chimeric Glider ( talk) 18:28, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- One other thing that i should mention. As an israeli of Ukrainian Jewish origin i am also under the category of someone who's ancestors were persecuted by the tsar (e.g. May Laws), and even so i see nothing inflammatory to have a new tsar in russia under a constitutional monarchy. -- Oren neu dag ( talk) 19:03, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- Now you're trying to push a point. This MFD has no grounds. Speedy close.-- WaltCip ( talk) 20:33, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- OC, he wants a constitutional monarchy, if he said that he wants to restore tyranny or kill lots of Jews maybe I'll think I vote delete. Heck I want to restore the Pre-Hispanic era in the Philippines, does that mean I'm a primitivist? Now you liken the CIA as a Nazi tool. I suggest that you lay off the attacks now.-- Lenticel ( talk) 22:15, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- This userbox is not inflammatory to you, this userbox is not imaflammatory to the Tsar worshipers. But this userbox is inflammatory to those people whose ancestors were killed by the Tsar. This userbox is inflammatory to the peasants died in hunger in the Tsarist regime while the Tsar was busy for his personal gain. This userbox is inflammatory to those people died in hunger before the
October Revolution. What about those who opposed the Tsar and repressed by the Tsar? This userbox is inflammatory to those who died by the Okhrona. I will suggest you to familiarize yourself with the history of Tsarist Russia by reading some historical documents, not by reading a pamphlet released by the
Propagandaministerium of the
Central Intelligence Agency.
Otolemur crassicaudatus (
talk)
18:13, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- Keep. In my experience, the general rule is that political userboxes are acceptable (at least for non-admins) provided that they do not attack or denigrate a particular group either explicitly or implicitly. Some, of course, would like to see all such userboxes removed, but this is not policy, and it is well-known that Wikipedia tolerates things it does not condone. Walton One 11:10, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.