- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the discussion was Keep. -- Cirt ( talk) 11:27, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Per WP:UBX, "Userboxes must not be inflammatory or divisive" (cf. Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Template555/Lies.) — Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 04:34, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- Keep: It's far better that a user expresses his POV on a userpage than edit an article like Religion with an undeclared bias. Buddy431 ( talk) 13:32, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- Delete Referring to god as a myth or superstition is inflammatory and divisive, i.e. trolling. If it said "This user does not believe in God", then it would be fine. Gigs ( talk) 14:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- I disagree; what's the difference between a religion and a superstition? Number of adherents? Is
Zeus a God or a mythical figure? Can't he be both? There is certainly a negative connotation that goes along with "myth" and "superstition" (especially the latter), but the literal meaning of either terms can be applied to any religious movement and still be accurate.
Buddy431 (
talk)
18:29, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- The truth of the statements in the userbox is irrelevant to the issue at hand. "This user thinks that the prophet Muhammad was a pedophile" might have a some basis in fact (he had a 9 year old wife), but is still divisive and inflammatory, and has no business on a wikipedia user page.
Gigs (
talk)
19:13, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- I guess I'd probably be OK with that example too, so I suppose we just have different views on what userboxes are acceptable. Legitimate disagreement among good faith parties, and all that. Buddy431 ( talk) 23:36, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- The truth of the statements in the userbox is irrelevant to the issue at hand. "This user thinks that the prophet Muhammad was a pedophile" might have a some basis in fact (he had a 9 year old wife), but is still divisive and inflammatory, and has no business on a wikipedia user page.
Gigs (
talk)
19:13, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- I disagree; what's the difference between a religion and a superstition? Number of adherents? Is
Zeus a God or a mythical figure? Can't he be both? There is certainly a negative connotation that goes along with "myth" and "superstition" (especially the latter), but the literal meaning of either terms can be applied to any religious movement and still be accurate.
Buddy431 (
talk)
18:29, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- Keep since the nom is trolling my user page, might as well comment on this too...Take the advice of this ANI and don't look at my user page/the ubx if it bothers you. The ubx doesn't have "christian god" slashed out, or "muslim god" slashed out, so not sure why this would be an issue. Most userboxes could offend at least one person, so that is not a good excuse either. I could say all your christian userboxes offend me, but I'm not that petty. CTJF83 chat 20:23, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- Again, not my point My claim is not that it's offensive, but that it's inflammatory or divisive, which it clearly is. You're not paying attention. —
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯
22:57, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- Clearly our definition of inflammatory is far different. CTJF83 chat 02:39, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- Keep: This is an extremely popular user box and is widely used. Just because a believer dislikes it does not mean it should be deleted. This user box is concise and to the point. Atheism is not divisive except, apparently, to some nonatheists. I do not believe that the user who created it has ever objected to boxes that endorse one or another religion even though these could be called just as divisive or inflammatory depending on your perspective. 76.208.67.39 ( talk) 02:23, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- Delete. Agree with Gigs. It is cleverly offensive. -- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 09:44, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- Keep. As long as it's not directed at any particular God with a capital G, it's not inflammatory. -- œ ™ 12:28, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- Additional Comments. Those who object to this userbox are found under "delete" above. Those who embrace it are noted below:
Extended content
|
|---|
* User:Plushpuffin * User:Zeality * User:Elyaqim * User:ArmadniGeneral * User:IsaacSchlueter * User:Methos3H * User:Cparker * User:PAR1138 * User:Ginnna * User:Thracx * User:DMorpheus * User:Schitso * User:Arkiedragon * User:Hu Gadarn * User:Thebasshacker * User:Treygdor * User:Ciepher * User:Seth Hall * User:Doody 09 * User:Subvertc * User:Saimdusan * User:Cardboard Moose * User:Mindme * User:Schwarzes Nacht * User:Spacini * User:Atlien * User:Dp76764 * User:Rolf Schmidt * User:Wilybadger * User:Nielad * User:Sluggy42 * User:SDas * User:Armanalp * User:StonedChipmunk/Userboxes * User:Dandv * User:Spiky Kitsune * User:Kneale * User:Rikstar * User:Darkson * User:Neko244 * User:Mtiffany71 * User:Svetovid * User:PRhyu * User:Ctjf83 * User:Jeff dean/Userboxes/Atheist * User:Selfworm/Userboxes * User:Zac Gochenour * User:Educe * User:Pastel kitten * Template:WikiprojectAtheismMember * User:Guilherme Paula * User:Pennsylvanian * User:JuWiki/Userboxes * User:Selfworm/UserboxesSaved * User:AlbertHall * User:Dala0 * User:Dekay46 * User:SeanMD80/userboxes * User:BrainMagMo * User:Tanyawade * File:Nomoregod.svg * User:Teriyakimoto * User:Gromlakh * User:Lucky Mitch * User:UBX/Userboxes/Religion * User:ImperialismGo * User:Vtmarxist * User:The Bloody Rose * User:Gruffwood * User:MartinPoulter * User:Bangdrum * User:Superpop * User:Kamil Filip Ulryk * User:Rrborjaplus * User:MozillaMan7 * User:Bly'd * User:Zeeboo * User:K.A.David * User:Goldencako * User:Keye/Userboxes/Atheist * User:Leeuwenhoek * User:Kallewirsch * User:Sirhanx2 * User:Barvinok * User:Ragger65 * User:Peoples Red Revolution * User:Eltopogaston * User:Finlandlover * User:Thewikiweedia * User:Belgianatheist * User:Hardrocker01 * User:Wind of Time * User:F33bs * User:TicketMan |
This boils down to is that some believers wanting to censor nonbelievers from using a userbox. Are not opinions permitted in userboxes? If not, then why to they exist? I see POVs in many, many userboxes. Should we ban them all because someone disagrees? 76.208.67.39 ( talk) 12:51, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- I'm an atheist, and I think it should be deleted, so your assertion is wrong.
Gigs (
talk)
13:15, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- As my ANI link above says...if you don't like the userbox, don't freaking look at it, plan and simple as that.
CTJF83
chat
20:13, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- Well said.
76.208.67.39 (
talk)
14:45, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
- That argument could go for any number of offensive or divisive userboxes, though, so it's not a particularly good one. I am not personally offended by this ubx, but I can easily see how many others would be. Strident protestations of either belief or unbelief are equally distasteful. → ROUX ₪ 20:26, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
- Well said.
76.208.67.39 (
talk)
14:45, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
- As my ANI link above says...if you don't like the userbox, don't freaking look at it, plan and simple as that.
CTJF83
chat
20:13, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- I'm an atheist, and I think it should be deleted, so your assertion is wrong.
Gigs (
talk)
13:15, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the discussion was Keep. -- Cirt ( talk) 11:27, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Per WP:UBX, "Userboxes must not be inflammatory or divisive" (cf. Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Template555/Lies.) — Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 04:34, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- Keep: It's far better that a user expresses his POV on a userpage than edit an article like Religion with an undeclared bias. Buddy431 ( talk) 13:32, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- Delete Referring to god as a myth or superstition is inflammatory and divisive, i.e. trolling. If it said "This user does not believe in God", then it would be fine. Gigs ( talk) 14:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- I disagree; what's the difference between a religion and a superstition? Number of adherents? Is
Zeus a God or a mythical figure? Can't he be both? There is certainly a negative connotation that goes along with "myth" and "superstition" (especially the latter), but the literal meaning of either terms can be applied to any religious movement and still be accurate.
Buddy431 (
talk)
18:29, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- The truth of the statements in the userbox is irrelevant to the issue at hand. "This user thinks that the prophet Muhammad was a pedophile" might have a some basis in fact (he had a 9 year old wife), but is still divisive and inflammatory, and has no business on a wikipedia user page.
Gigs (
talk)
19:13, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- I guess I'd probably be OK with that example too, so I suppose we just have different views on what userboxes are acceptable. Legitimate disagreement among good faith parties, and all that. Buddy431 ( talk) 23:36, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- The truth of the statements in the userbox is irrelevant to the issue at hand. "This user thinks that the prophet Muhammad was a pedophile" might have a some basis in fact (he had a 9 year old wife), but is still divisive and inflammatory, and has no business on a wikipedia user page.
Gigs (
talk)
19:13, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- I disagree; what's the difference between a religion and a superstition? Number of adherents? Is
Zeus a God or a mythical figure? Can't he be both? There is certainly a negative connotation that goes along with "myth" and "superstition" (especially the latter), but the literal meaning of either terms can be applied to any religious movement and still be accurate.
Buddy431 (
talk)
18:29, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- Keep since the nom is trolling my user page, might as well comment on this too...Take the advice of this ANI and don't look at my user page/the ubx if it bothers you. The ubx doesn't have "christian god" slashed out, or "muslim god" slashed out, so not sure why this would be an issue. Most userboxes could offend at least one person, so that is not a good excuse either. I could say all your christian userboxes offend me, but I'm not that petty. CTJF83 chat 20:23, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- Again, not my point My claim is not that it's offensive, but that it's inflammatory or divisive, which it clearly is. You're not paying attention. —
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯
22:57, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- Clearly our definition of inflammatory is far different. CTJF83 chat 02:39, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- Keep: This is an extremely popular user box and is widely used. Just because a believer dislikes it does not mean it should be deleted. This user box is concise and to the point. Atheism is not divisive except, apparently, to some nonatheists. I do not believe that the user who created it has ever objected to boxes that endorse one or another religion even though these could be called just as divisive or inflammatory depending on your perspective. 76.208.67.39 ( talk) 02:23, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- Delete. Agree with Gigs. It is cleverly offensive. -- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 09:44, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- Keep. As long as it's not directed at any particular God with a capital G, it's not inflammatory. -- œ ™ 12:28, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- Additional Comments. Those who object to this userbox are found under "delete" above. Those who embrace it are noted below:
Extended content
|
|---|
* User:Plushpuffin * User:Zeality * User:Elyaqim * User:ArmadniGeneral * User:IsaacSchlueter * User:Methos3H * User:Cparker * User:PAR1138 * User:Ginnna * User:Thracx * User:DMorpheus * User:Schitso * User:Arkiedragon * User:Hu Gadarn * User:Thebasshacker * User:Treygdor * User:Ciepher * User:Seth Hall * User:Doody 09 * User:Subvertc * User:Saimdusan * User:Cardboard Moose * User:Mindme * User:Schwarzes Nacht * User:Spacini * User:Atlien * User:Dp76764 * User:Rolf Schmidt * User:Wilybadger * User:Nielad * User:Sluggy42 * User:SDas * User:Armanalp * User:StonedChipmunk/Userboxes * User:Dandv * User:Spiky Kitsune * User:Kneale * User:Rikstar * User:Darkson * User:Neko244 * User:Mtiffany71 * User:Svetovid * User:PRhyu * User:Ctjf83 * User:Jeff dean/Userboxes/Atheist * User:Selfworm/Userboxes * User:Zac Gochenour * User:Educe * User:Pastel kitten * Template:WikiprojectAtheismMember * User:Guilherme Paula * User:Pennsylvanian * User:JuWiki/Userboxes * User:Selfworm/UserboxesSaved * User:AlbertHall * User:Dala0 * User:Dekay46 * User:SeanMD80/userboxes * User:BrainMagMo * User:Tanyawade * File:Nomoregod.svg * User:Teriyakimoto * User:Gromlakh * User:Lucky Mitch * User:UBX/Userboxes/Religion * User:ImperialismGo * User:Vtmarxist * User:The Bloody Rose * User:Gruffwood * User:MartinPoulter * User:Bangdrum * User:Superpop * User:Kamil Filip Ulryk * User:Rrborjaplus * User:MozillaMan7 * User:Bly'd * User:Zeeboo * User:K.A.David * User:Goldencako * User:Keye/Userboxes/Atheist * User:Leeuwenhoek * User:Kallewirsch * User:Sirhanx2 * User:Barvinok * User:Ragger65 * User:Peoples Red Revolution * User:Eltopogaston * User:Finlandlover * User:Thewikiweedia * User:Belgianatheist * User:Hardrocker01 * User:Wind of Time * User:F33bs * User:TicketMan |
This boils down to is that some believers wanting to censor nonbelievers from using a userbox. Are not opinions permitted in userboxes? If not, then why to they exist? I see POVs in many, many userboxes. Should we ban them all because someone disagrees? 76.208.67.39 ( talk) 12:51, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- I'm an atheist, and I think it should be deleted, so your assertion is wrong.
Gigs (
talk)
13:15, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- As my ANI link above says...if you don't like the userbox, don't freaking look at it, plan and simple as that.
CTJF83
chat
20:13, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- Well said.
76.208.67.39 (
talk)
14:45, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
- That argument could go for any number of offensive or divisive userboxes, though, so it's not a particularly good one. I am not personally offended by this ubx, but I can easily see how many others would be. Strident protestations of either belief or unbelief are equally distasteful. → ROUX ₪ 20:26, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
- Well said.
76.208.67.39 (
talk)
14:45, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
- As my ANI link above says...if you don't like the userbox, don't freaking look at it, plan and simple as that.
CTJF83
chat
20:13, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- I'm an atheist, and I think it should be deleted, so your assertion is wrong.
Gigs (
talk)
13:15, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.