The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellany page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Keep. — xaosflux ^Talk 02:14, 13 October 2007 (UTC) reply

The user who made this also made User:Alien joe/userboxing/despiseV which was deleted for violating T1. This was made in a similar manner so I think it should be deleted as well with it. CyberGhostface 04:10, 6 October 2007 (UTC) reply

• Keep maybe we should get rid of the letter H next? Carbon Monoxide 17:34, 6 October 2007 (UTC) reply
  • Comment Are you speaking in jest, or do you not know what V is referring to in this template?-- CyberGhostface 18:39, 6 October 2007 (UTC) reply
    • I must be missing something. The V literally links to V... how is that an attack? Carbon Monoxide 20:18, 6 October 2007 (UTC) reply
      • Try V for Vendetta. I think that's what he means. -- UsaSatsui 23:07, 6 October 2007 (UTC) reply
        • Oh. Well it's still a keep for me. He can think whatever he wants above a novel. Carbon Monoxide 00:48, 7 October 2007 (UTC) reply
• Delete - Either patent nonsense or an attack.-- WaltCip 18:54, 6 October 2007 (UTC) reply

• Keep - It IS in his userspace, and I'd rather not be a WP:POT.-- WaltCip 20:01, 11 October 2007 (UTC) reply

• Delete. Completely inappropriate userbox. -- UsaSatsui 23:07, 6 October 2007 (UTC) reply
• Keep. Either he feels like the letter V should be shot (I think this is an entirely reasonable opinion, given that this is the most useless letter in the alphabet; and even if it's not, "patent nonsense" is just fine for a userbox) or he thinks a fictional character should be shot (if this is the case, it's a fictional character; it's a good sign that you should leave your bedroom once in a while if you find yourself getting upset by this). Lewis Collard! ( rock me mama like a southbound train) 11:39, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
  • Comment Your thinly-veiled personal insults aside, the template counts as divisive and inflammatory. The now-deleted user templates which said "This user thinks insert movie here is the worst movie ever made" were deleted for similar reasons, and they were a lot less inflammatory than this.-- CyberGhostface 14:25, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
    • Counter-comment You can drop the bit about "thinly-veiled"; that was a pretty overt attack against a whole class of very stupid people that would throw a hissy fit over people doing anything more subversive than farting in an unusually loud manner or unique position. If they want to throw their crayons out of their high chairs when they see their favourite fictional character insulted? Hokay. That doesn't mean us grown-ups at MfD should pay any attention. They should get over it, and grow the hell up. Just because they can't tell the difference between fictional characters and real-life people doesn't mean that we should give them the time of day. Lewis Collard! ( rock me mama like a southbound train) 16:48, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
      • Let's be civil here, shall we? Your point would be a lot stronger if you didn't come off like a raging loony while making it. In any event, I don't think the guidelines draw a distinction between attacks on fictional characters and real ones. -- UsaSatsui 17:38, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
        • There's no need to be civil to people who just want to start arguments; in fact, I'd be slightly happier if such people were thrown to the lions. You're right on one point: the guidelines don't draw a line between attacks on fictional characters and attacks on real, living people with feelings. That's because that would be fucking stupid. Again, fiction/reality/get out of your bedroom issue. Lewis Collard! ( rock me mama like a southbound train) 19:13, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
          • The only person being uncivil and starting arguments (and throwing hissy fits) here is you.-- CyberGhostface 19:55, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
            • To use the playground mantra, "YOU STARTED IT!". Lewis Collard! ( rock me mama like a southbound train) 20:33, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
              • How did I personally attack you first?-- CyberGhostface 20:49, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
                • You didn't, but you are the one starting an argument here. Lewis Collard! ( rock me mama like a southbound train) 21:11, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
                  • So essentially if anyone starts a deletion process that gives you the right to insult them?-- CyberGhostface 21:38, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
                    • If they start a stupid one, there's good reason to not take them too seriously and, instead, make fun of them. Take that as a "yes" if you like. Lewis Collard! ( rock me mama like a southbound train) 21:59, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
                      • Whatever it takes to justify your behavior, I guess...-- CyberGhostface 22:50, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
                        • Don't feed him, man. Just rest assured knowing he's not helping his position and probably crusing for a block if he keeps it up. -- UsaSatsui 22:54, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
          • Lewis, please remember WP:AGF and avoid personal attacks. This is a useless, inane userbox. It does not serve a purpose as a template and can still be construed as an attack no matter how you look at it, even if the userbox CLAIMS to be directed at fictional beings. Those who wish to make personal attacks can simply use that argument in another fashion, saying that "Jimb Owa Les should be shot" and "Don't worry, Jimb is only a fictional character, unlike Jimbo Wales who is quite truly real." That may be a frivolous example but this still isn't the kind of template we want to encourage.-- WaltCip 20:30, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
            • CLAIMS to be aimed at a fictional character. Newsflash: V is a fictional character! This is no more divisive than saying "This user thinks Superman should be taken down with an S-300" is, except for people that find it hard to distinguish fiction from reality. Lewis Collard! ( rock me mama like a southbound train) 20:37, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
• Keep. Please get some perspective. Firstly, T1 in its strict form doesn't apply in userspace. Secondly, although userspace content that is blatantly divisive and inflammatory certainly should be deleted, this doesn't qualify. As pointed out above, it's about a fictional character, and is unlikely to seriously offend anyone. As a rule, in MfD discussions on userspace, the burden of proof is on the nominator to demonstrate that the content is harmful to the encyclopedia. The distinct lack of offended and hurt V fans turning up in droves to complain may be a sign that this page does not need to be deleted. Walton ^One 21:02, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
  • Obviously the lack of V fans probably has less to do with them not being offended and more to the fact that they probably don't even know the discussion is taking place. If I were to look up their respective userboxes and notify all of them there'd probably at least a few more people here. As for this not qualifying, then what does? I've seen ones deleted for far less. For example, like I said before, there was once a template that goes "This user thinks insert movie here" is the worst ever made" and you would supply which movie you disliked. It wasn't even targeting anything specific, and it was deleted for violating T1. I don't see how this is any different. That, and literally no one (not even its creator) is even using this userbox to begin with so I don't see what purpose it has.-- CyberGhostface 21:38, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
    • Or maybe they have a life. Who knows. Lewis Collard! ( rock me mama like a southbound train) 22:01, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
      • Are you not able to express your opinions without insulting people?-- CyberGhostface 22:50, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
        • It's not an insult to say that someone who gets upset at an attack on a fictional character needs a life. That's a very simple statement of fact, not an attack. Lewis Collard! ( rock me mama like a southbound train) 22:58, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
          • Just because I don't think it deserves to be on wikipedia doesn't necessarily mean I'm personally offended by it.-- CyberGhostface 23:03, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
            • I know! I never said you were personally offended by it, which is why I don't see how you can take this so personally. I'm saying there's no need to cater for anyone that is. Lewis Collard! ( rock me mama like a southbound train) 23:28, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
    • (To CyberGhostFace) You may have seen less divisive userboxes deleted, but that's because some people around here are on a crusade against controversial userboxes, which is not supported by policy or consensus. For instance, someone once deleted "This user supports recycling" as divisive and inflammatory, which is patently ridiculous. While current policy is so vague that it can be twisted in any direction, there is no consensus to delete this kind of userbox. Walton ^One 22:32, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
• Please stop the flame war. I don't want to have to call the cops.-- UsaSatsui 23:07, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
  • Hokay. Lewis Collard! ( rock me mama like a southbound train) 23:48, 8 October 2007 (UTC) reply
• omgwtfkeepbbq because patent nonsense since it's an easy enough statement to figure out. Its underlying meaning or lack thereof, not so much, but that doesn't really seem others' place to decide since it doesn't appear to be profane at all. 17Drew 07:20, 9 October 2007 (UTC) reply
• Delete, inappropriate userbox. -- Core desat 17:01, 9 October 2007 (UTC) reply
  • Erm, how? Walton ^One 20:50, 10 October 2007 (UTC) reply
    • It doesn't help the project or the community in any way and is practically an attack page with an ambiguous target. And to be frank, the hostility in the discussion here is a good indicator that the userbox is divisive. -- Core desat 22:06, 10 October 2007 (UTC) reply
• Strong keep WP:CENSOR. The fact that it does not and could be interpreted as anything from V for Vendetta to V (TV series) to V the Superduper Hero to Vanadium to Haplogroup V (mtDNA) makes even less objectionable, and makes the provocation a figment in the provoked's imagination. Seriously, get real-- Victor falk 11:26, 10 October 2007 (UTC) reply
  • What purpose does the userbox have? No one's using it. Its pointless. WP:CENSOR states "articles may include objectionable text, images, or links if they are relevant to the content" which hardly refers to this. See the content restrictions. "Userboxes must not include incivility or personal attacks.", "Userboxes must not be inflammatory or divisive.", "Avoid negative verb phrases which can be potentially divisive, such as: dislikes, despises, hates, loathe". And the fact that the user placed it with all the other vendetta userboxes should make it clear what its for. -- CyberGhostface 14:50, 10 October 2007 (UTC) reply
    • Haven't we seen this episode before? You can't be incivil to a fictional character, or a letter of the alphabet, which makes your point irrelevant. Lewis Collard! ( rock me mama like a southbound train) 16:29, 10 October 2007 (UTC) reply
      • No, but the opinion can still be inflammatory and divisive. -- CyberGhostface 16:48, 10 October 2007 (UTC) reply
        • It could be for someone that can't tell the difference between fiction and reality (see Superman/S-300 example above), but they're probably not the sort of people we want on Wikipedia anyway. So that's okay. Lewis Collard! ( rock me mama like a southbound train) 17:23, 10 October 2007 (UTC) reply
          • Whoever said V was real? I never said it was personal attack on a living person, just a pointless userbox that serves no purpose.-- CyberGhostface 17:32, 10 October 2007 (UTC) reply
            • I never claimed that you said V was real. What I was getting at, is that anybody who throws a hissy fit over their favourite fictional character being attacked has some serious issues. Lewis Collard! ( rock me mama like a southbound train) 18:27, 10 October 2007 (UTC) reply
              • But you would agree that it's a pointless userbox that serves no purpose.-- WaltCip 18:41, 10 October 2007 (UTC) reply
                • Shrug. Someone might use it in future, or someone might not. Who cares? Far more resources have been wasted with this discussion than have been wasted with it just sitting there unused. Lewis Collard! ( rock me mama like a southbound train) 19:11, 10 October 2007 (UTC) reply
• Keep Seriously, guys? This is ridiculous. Walton's got it exactly right. Glass Cobra ( Review) 21:48, 10 October 2007 (UTC) reply
• Keep - I haven't seen the movie, nor read the book, but it is about a fictional character (that links to a letter). No big deal, not that big of a deal. I concur with Walton. Neranei (talk) 03:40, 12 October 2007 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.