- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the discussion was: delete. ‑Scottywong | [soliloquize] || 22:48, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
| All prior XfDs for this page: |
Abandoned mini-portal on the Indian state of Andhra Pradesh. Automated then reverted to manual. A 6-year-old stale "news" page which is actually govt press releases, and a set of eleven-year-old stale DYKs. Few quality articles in its scope; WikiProject AP is inactive; no maintainers; and only 16 views/day. It has only 10 selected articles, just half the POG minimum of 20. (Yes, I do know that after 6 months of specifying a bare minimum of twenty, POG was reverted to an earlier version which makes even that low number a fuzzy target. But I hope that unlike the reverter, editors will exercise WP:COMMONSENSE and recognise that even 20 articles is a woefully small set to provide a decent sample of any non-trivial topic, and that a mere 10 is a risible waste of time.)
Created [1] on 7 July 2008 by Ias2008 ( talk · contribs), whose last edit to any part of the portal was only one week later, on 14 July 2008 (see Ias2008's portal-space contribs). Since late 2006, the lead of WP:POG has warned "Do not expect other editors to maintain a portal you create", but Ias2008 did not follow that guidance.
Special:PrefixIndex/Portal:Andhra_Pradesh shows a small set of sub-pages:
- Ten selected articles, listed at /Selected articles/Archive. Most of the subpages were rebuilt in 2010 by Sharadbob ( talk · contribs), and since then none of them has had anything other than technical changes (template changes, disambiguation, etc). This is just a collection of 9-year-old content forks.
- /Did you know: 6 items, all added in 2008. Per WP:DYK, "The DYK section showcases new or expanded articles that are selected through an informal review process. It is not a general trivia section" ... but this eleven-year-old list loses the newness, so its only effect is as a trivia section.
-
/Andhra Pradesh news: two items, both added in 2013.
[2] However, they are both dated simply "April 22", and the header says
Today is {{CURRENTDATE}}, so the reader is misled into assuming that the date is April 22 of the current year.
Worse still, neither of the two stories is sourced from a news report. They are both press releases from the Department of Information and Public Relations of the Govt of Anra Pradesh ... which is a clear breach of WP:NOTPRESSRELEASE. - Portal:Andhra Pradesh/Featured picture, which offers no rotation of content, and has displayed the same picture since its creation in 2008. WP:POG says "Some portals update the selected articles and pictures once a month. Others update them weekly, which is preferred." Even on a monthly cycle, this one picture has missed 136 updates.
This neglect is presumably why the portal was "upgraded to a single-page design" [3] in Sept 2018 by @ The Transhumanist (TTH). This "upgrade" converted the portal into an automated clone tool, which drew its all its selected articles from the navbox Template:Andhra Pradesh, and made the portal merely a bloated version of the navbox, just like the navbox-clone portalspam which was deleted in April in two mass deletions of similar portals ( one, and two). So in May 2019, I (BHG) reverted [4] the portal to a pre-automated version. That restored the portal to its abandoned state, from which it has not been rescued.
WP:POG requires that portals should be about "broad subject areas, which are likely to attract large numbers of interested readers and portal maintainers". POG also guides that "the portal should be associated with a WikiProject (or have editors with sufficient interest) to help ensure a supply of new material for the portal and maintain the portal". This fails on at least three of the four counts:
Broad topic.
Category:WikiProject Andhra Pradesh articles contains 5937 articles, but not many of high quality. The table in
Category:Andhra Pradesh articles by quality shows only 4 FAs and 45 GAs. That set might be enough to sustain a portal if it included a balanced set of topics, but I haven't checked that. And it would rely on the other conditions being met.
High readership. The portal's January–June 2019 daily average of only
16 views per day is very low.- Lots of maintainers. No. The last substantive maintenance was in 2010.
- WikiProject involvement. No. I have just tagged
[5]
WP:WikiProject Andhra Pradesh as inactive, because the last discussion on its talkpage was in 2017. The project shows zero interest in the portal.
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Andhra Pradesh and its archive show only one mention of the portal,
in 2008.
This portal was created in good faith when active editor numbers were at their peak and portalmania at its height. But for the last 9 years, with fewer editors, there has been no interest in maintaining a portal on this topic, and almost no interest in reading it. Time to just delete it. Since the problems are deep-seated and long-standing, I oppose re-creation. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 09:02, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
- Delete per the thorough and highly detailed investigation of the portal by the nominator, BrownHairedGirl. Portals stand or fall on their merits in the now, not what could someday hypothetically happen with them, and this one falls flat. It's a useless time suck that lures readers to an over nine year long abandoned portal and damages Wikipedia's hard won reputation for quality. I oppose re-creation, as over nine years of hard evidence shows Andhra Pradesh is not a broad enough topic per WP:POG to attract readers or maintainers. This portal is a solution in search of a problem. Newshunter12 ( talk) 09:24, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
- Note to closing admin. I don't want in any way to prejudge the outcome ... but if you close this discussion as delete, please can you not remove the backlinks? I have an AWB setup which allows me to easily replace them with links to the next most specific portal(s) (in this case Portal:India), without creating duplicate entries. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 09:39, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
| Title | Portal Page Views | Article Page Views | Comments | Ratio | Percent | Articles | Notes |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| India | 145 | 30677 | Very many subpages, some of which are marked historical. Difficult to determine when last maintained. | 211.57 | 0.47% | 94 | Jan-Feb19 views were 150/32278 |
| Delhi | 11 | 4490 | Originator inactive since 2012. | 408.18 | 0.24% | ||
| Himachal Pradesh | 9 | 2219 | Originator inactive since 2017. | 246.56 | 0.41% | 6 | |
| Uttar Pradesh | 13 | 5157 | Originator edits sporadically. Maintenance stopped around 2011. | 396.69 | 0.25% | ||
| Jharkhand | 9 | 1468 | Originator inactive since 2017. | 163.11 | 0.61% | 13 | |
| Rajasthan | 12 | 3388 | Originated 2014; originator last edited 2016. Nominator states little maintenance since 2014. | 282.33 | 0.35% | 17 | |
| Maharashtra | 13 | 4684 | Originated 2006. Originator last edited 2010. Most articles created in 2016. No maintenance since 2016. | 360.31 | 0.28% | 11 | |
| Haryana | 9 | 2469 | Originated 2012. Originator last edited 2018. No maintenance after 2013. | 274.33 | 0.36% | 12 | |
| Bihar | 10 | 2935 | Originated 2008. Abandoned by originator, who last edited 2015. No substantive maintenance since 2013. | 293.50 | 0.34% | 16 | |
| Assam | 10 | 2679 | Originated 2013. Originator last edited portal in 2016, inactive since 2017. Very little maintenance since 2013. | 267.90 | 0.37% | 12 | Article 7 has had markup error since 2013. |
| Gujarat | 12 | 3471 | Originated in 2006 and abandoned. Originator inactive since 2011. Articles are listed in-line rather than forked. | 289.25 | 0.35% | 16 | |
| West Bengal | 14 | 3531 | Originated 2006, updated until 2008 by editor who edits occasionally. Some articles have been converted to transclusion but others have not; maintenance is spotty. | 252.21 | 0.40% | 26 | A tangled forest of subpages. |
| Odisha | 11 | 2505 | Originated and abandoned in 2009 by a sporadic editor. | 227.73 | 0.44% | 9 | No substantive maintenance since 2011. |
| Andhra Pradesh | 16 | 5497 | Originated 2008 and promptly abandoned by sporadic editor. No maintenance since 2010. | 343.56 | 0.29% | 10 | |
- Delete as per analysis by BHG. Too little readership, too few articles, no maintenance on the articles. Robert McClenon ( talk) 17:34, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
- Delete this state doesn't need a portal. Catfurball ( talk) 22:51, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
- Delete per analysis by BrownHairedGirl. And oppose re-creation. -Crossroads- ( talk) 04:33, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
- Delete. Another abandoned and not maintained portal.-- Darwinek ( talk) 22:28, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the discussion was: delete. ‑Scottywong | [soliloquize] || 22:48, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
| All prior XfDs for this page: |
Abandoned mini-portal on the Indian state of Andhra Pradesh. Automated then reverted to manual. A 6-year-old stale "news" page which is actually govt press releases, and a set of eleven-year-old stale DYKs. Few quality articles in its scope; WikiProject AP is inactive; no maintainers; and only 16 views/day. It has only 10 selected articles, just half the POG minimum of 20. (Yes, I do know that after 6 months of specifying a bare minimum of twenty, POG was reverted to an earlier version which makes even that low number a fuzzy target. But I hope that unlike the reverter, editors will exercise WP:COMMONSENSE and recognise that even 20 articles is a woefully small set to provide a decent sample of any non-trivial topic, and that a mere 10 is a risible waste of time.)
Created [1] on 7 July 2008 by Ias2008 ( talk · contribs), whose last edit to any part of the portal was only one week later, on 14 July 2008 (see Ias2008's portal-space contribs). Since late 2006, the lead of WP:POG has warned "Do not expect other editors to maintain a portal you create", but Ias2008 did not follow that guidance.
Special:PrefixIndex/Portal:Andhra_Pradesh shows a small set of sub-pages:
- Ten selected articles, listed at /Selected articles/Archive. Most of the subpages were rebuilt in 2010 by Sharadbob ( talk · contribs), and since then none of them has had anything other than technical changes (template changes, disambiguation, etc). This is just a collection of 9-year-old content forks.
- /Did you know: 6 items, all added in 2008. Per WP:DYK, "The DYK section showcases new or expanded articles that are selected through an informal review process. It is not a general trivia section" ... but this eleven-year-old list loses the newness, so its only effect is as a trivia section.
-
/Andhra Pradesh news: two items, both added in 2013.
[2] However, they are both dated simply "April 22", and the header says
Today is {{CURRENTDATE}}, so the reader is misled into assuming that the date is April 22 of the current year.
Worse still, neither of the two stories is sourced from a news report. They are both press releases from the Department of Information and Public Relations of the Govt of Anra Pradesh ... which is a clear breach of WP:NOTPRESSRELEASE. - Portal:Andhra Pradesh/Featured picture, which offers no rotation of content, and has displayed the same picture since its creation in 2008. WP:POG says "Some portals update the selected articles and pictures once a month. Others update them weekly, which is preferred." Even on a monthly cycle, this one picture has missed 136 updates.
This neglect is presumably why the portal was "upgraded to a single-page design" [3] in Sept 2018 by @ The Transhumanist (TTH). This "upgrade" converted the portal into an automated clone tool, which drew its all its selected articles from the navbox Template:Andhra Pradesh, and made the portal merely a bloated version of the navbox, just like the navbox-clone portalspam which was deleted in April in two mass deletions of similar portals ( one, and two). So in May 2019, I (BHG) reverted [4] the portal to a pre-automated version. That restored the portal to its abandoned state, from which it has not been rescued.
WP:POG requires that portals should be about "broad subject areas, which are likely to attract large numbers of interested readers and portal maintainers". POG also guides that "the portal should be associated with a WikiProject (or have editors with sufficient interest) to help ensure a supply of new material for the portal and maintain the portal". This fails on at least three of the four counts:
- Broad topic.
Category:WikiProject Andhra Pradesh articles contains 5937 articles, but not many of high quality. The table in
Category:Andhra Pradesh articles by quality shows only 4 FAs and 45 GAs. That set might be enough to sustain a portal if it included a balanced set of topics, but I haven't checked that. And it would rely on the other conditions being met.
- High readership. The portal's January–June 2019 daily average of only
16 views per day is very low.
- Lots of maintainers. No. The last substantive maintenance was in 2010.
- WikiProject involvement. No. I have just tagged
[5]
WP:WikiProject Andhra Pradesh as inactive, because the last discussion on its talkpage was in 2017. The project shows zero interest in the portal.
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Andhra Pradesh and its archive show only one mention of the portal,
in 2008.
This portal was created in good faith when active editor numbers were at their peak and portalmania at its height. But for the last 9 years, with fewer editors, there has been no interest in maintaining a portal on this topic, and almost no interest in reading it. Time to just delete it. Since the problems are deep-seated and long-standing, I oppose re-creation. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 09:02, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
- Delete per the thorough and highly detailed investigation of the portal by the nominator, BrownHairedGirl. Portals stand or fall on their merits in the now, not what could someday hypothetically happen with them, and this one falls flat. It's a useless time suck that lures readers to an over nine year long abandoned portal and damages Wikipedia's hard won reputation for quality. I oppose re-creation, as over nine years of hard evidence shows Andhra Pradesh is not a broad enough topic per WP:POG to attract readers or maintainers. This portal is a solution in search of a problem. Newshunter12 ( talk) 09:24, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
- Note to closing admin. I don't want in any way to prejudge the outcome ... but if you close this discussion as delete, please can you not remove the backlinks? I have an AWB setup which allows me to easily replace them with links to the next most specific portal(s) (in this case Portal:India), without creating duplicate entries. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 09:39, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
| Title | Portal Page Views | Article Page Views | Comments | Ratio | Percent | Articles | Notes |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| India | 145 | 30677 | Very many subpages, some of which are marked historical. Difficult to determine when last maintained. | 211.57 | 0.47% | 94 | Jan-Feb19 views were 150/32278 |
| Delhi | 11 | 4490 | Originator inactive since 2012. | 408.18 | 0.24% | ||
| Himachal Pradesh | 9 | 2219 | Originator inactive since 2017. | 246.56 | 0.41% | 6 | |
| Uttar Pradesh | 13 | 5157 | Originator edits sporadically. Maintenance stopped around 2011. | 396.69 | 0.25% | ||
| Jharkhand | 9 | 1468 | Originator inactive since 2017. | 163.11 | 0.61% | 13 | |
| Rajasthan | 12 | 3388 | Originated 2014; originator last edited 2016. Nominator states little maintenance since 2014. | 282.33 | 0.35% | 17 | |
| Maharashtra | 13 | 4684 | Originated 2006. Originator last edited 2010. Most articles created in 2016. No maintenance since 2016. | 360.31 | 0.28% | 11 | |
| Haryana | 9 | 2469 | Originated 2012. Originator last edited 2018. No maintenance after 2013. | 274.33 | 0.36% | 12 | |
| Bihar | 10 | 2935 | Originated 2008. Abandoned by originator, who last edited 2015. No substantive maintenance since 2013. | 293.50 | 0.34% | 16 | |
| Assam | 10 | 2679 | Originated 2013. Originator last edited portal in 2016, inactive since 2017. Very little maintenance since 2013. | 267.90 | 0.37% | 12 | Article 7 has had markup error since 2013. |
| Gujarat | 12 | 3471 | Originated in 2006 and abandoned. Originator inactive since 2011. Articles are listed in-line rather than forked. | 289.25 | 0.35% | 16 | |
| West Bengal | 14 | 3531 | Originated 2006, updated until 2008 by editor who edits occasionally. Some articles have been converted to transclusion but others have not; maintenance is spotty. | 252.21 | 0.40% | 26 | A tangled forest of subpages. |
| Odisha | 11 | 2505 | Originated and abandoned in 2009 by a sporadic editor. | 227.73 | 0.44% | 9 | No substantive maintenance since 2011. |
| Andhra Pradesh | 16 | 5497 | Originated 2008 and promptly abandoned by sporadic editor. No maintenance since 2010. | 343.56 | 0.29% | 10 | |
- Delete as per analysis by BHG. Too little readership, too few articles, no maintenance on the articles. Robert McClenon ( talk) 17:34, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
- Delete this state doesn't need a portal. Catfurball ( talk) 22:51, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
- Delete per analysis by BrownHairedGirl. And oppose re-creation. -Crossroads- ( talk) 04:33, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
- Delete. Another abandoned and not maintained portal.-- Darwinek ( talk) 22:28, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.