| Wikipedia Mediation Cabal | |
|---|---|
 | |
| Article | Tyrell Johnson, Glenn Dorsey, Chris Long, Brian Brohm, Matt Ryan, and several other articles |
| Status | closed |
| Request date | Unknown |
| Requesting party | Unknown |
| Parties involved | Chrisjnelson, Yankees10, 72.0.36.36, CopaceticThought, RC-0722, Cgarz89, 67.137.0.28, Tromboneguy0186, Blackngold29, Star QB, Jayron32 |
| Mediator(s) | Xavexgoem ( talk) |
| Comment | behavioral |
[[Category:Wikipedia Medcab closed cases| Tyrell Johnson, Glenn Dorsey, Chris Long, Brian Brohm, Matt Ryan, and several other articles]][[Category:Wikipedia medcab maintenance| Tyrell Johnson, Glenn Dorsey, Chris Long, Brian Brohm, Matt Ryan, and several other articles]]
Request details
Who are the involved parties?
Chrisjnelson, Yankees10, 72.0.36.36, CopaceticThought, RC-0722, Cgarz89, 67.137.0.28, Tromboneguy0186, Blackngold29, Star QB, Jayron32
What's going on?
You can see prior discussion on it here:
- Talk:Glenn Dorsey#Originally
- Talk:Chris_Long (American football)#"Originally drafted?"
- User Talk:Yankees10#Originally drafted
- User Talk:Chrisjnelson#Originally
- Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League#Drafted or Originally Drafted
There are a couple of users ( User:Yankees10 and User:Chrisjnelson) who have decided in the interest of uniformity to change every NFL player's article from saying "was drafted by..." to "was originally drafted by..." Their intent was to convey that this is where the player's career began. Often when a player moves to another team their article says they "originally came from such and such team and now are at another team". To make all the articles consistent they decided to make every single article say "originally" in them, even the ones who haven't moved to another team.
Since adding "originally" to every page they've they've been reverted many times. Using the word originally implies they have been drafted more than once, when in fact they have not. Or it may imply they've moved on to another team, where in fact many of them have not. Several users feel putting "originally" into an article where it doesn't make sense is wrong and sounds goofy, others have pointed out that it's bad grammar.
There has been discussions on both of their user pages about it ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Yankees10#Originally_drafted and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Chrisjnelson#Originally. This argument has potential to spiral out of control (they've put so much work into changing all the articles that at this point they wouldn't admit they were wrong even if they knew they are) so it would be nice to get mediator involvement.
What would you like to change about that?
I would like to get a third party mediator opinion on whether or not we should:
- add "originally drafted" to every professional player's page (even the ones who haven't moved to another team) in the interest of consistency at the expense of proper grammar and fluidity
- add "originally drafted" to only those players who have moved to another team at the expense of consistency
- add "originally drafted" sparingly and only where it makes sense and revert those articles where they do not make sense
- do not add "originally" on any of the articles
Mediator notes
I'll take this on as best I can. Sign below if you want a mediator:
- 67.137.0.28 ( talk) 09:17, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
- 72.0.36.36 ( talk) 04:35, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
- Black ngold29 05:00, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
- (sign here)
There are a few caveats, both to this case specifically and mediation generally:
- I won't be arguing which side is "better".
Only discuss the merits of the edits and the arguments, not the editors who make them. If you go down that route, I'll pull you back out of it :-)
I'll be closing this tomorrow, as one party does not wish to be involved or pursue the problem any further.
- Then it will have to be referred to arbitration for a ruling or administrative action. There are obviously enough people who would like to see this settled. 67.137.0.28 ( talk) 18:52, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
- Agreed. There should be a reckoning in my opinion. 72.0.36.36 ( talk) 19:27, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah! Let's kick Chris' ass!► Chris Nelson Holla! 19:35, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
- No, nothing like that. I simply think that if there is some civility the NFL project will improve. If you can continue to simply do as you please then there will be incident after incident. There is a pattern of behavior that is uncivil, no matter how many times you may be blocked, it simply does not work. For everyone to get along here it seems to me there needs to be a even playing field. If you can insult, disparrage, edit-war, etc. then wiki is dimished. 72.0.36.36 ( talk) 07:48, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
- Some of your edits far outweigh any of my actions in terms of the negative effects on Wikipedia. They just aren't technically against the rules, but it doesn't mean they aren't god awful.►
Chris Nelson
Holla! 08:24, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
- Knock it off, folks. To anon: Chrisjnelson has said he will not pursue this; and to Chris: you gotta be nicer. Threats of arbitration are ridiculous. There are wikiquette alerts, administrator noticeboards, etc., etc. But why bother with civility or good faith - anyone - when you can drop the "bad guys" off at arbitration? Xavexgoem ( talk) 09:18, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
- Some of your edits far outweigh any of my actions in terms of the negative effects on Wikipedia. They just aren't technically against the rules, but it doesn't mean they aren't god awful.►
Chris Nelson
Holla! 08:24, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Administrative notes
Discussion
Archived a bunch on talk Xavexgoem ( talk) 07:12, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
| Wikipedia Mediation Cabal | |
|---|---|
|
| |
| Article | Tyrell Johnson, Glenn Dorsey, Chris Long, Brian Brohm, Matt Ryan, and several other articles |
| Status | closed |
| Request date | Unknown |
| Requesting party | Unknown |
| Parties involved | Chrisjnelson, Yankees10, 72.0.36.36, CopaceticThought, RC-0722, Cgarz89, 67.137.0.28, Tromboneguy0186, Blackngold29, Star QB, Jayron32 |
| Mediator(s) | Xavexgoem ( talk) |
| Comment | behavioral |
[[Category:Wikipedia Medcab closed cases| Tyrell Johnson, Glenn Dorsey, Chris Long, Brian Brohm, Matt Ryan, and several other articles]][[Category:Wikipedia medcab maintenance| Tyrell Johnson, Glenn Dorsey, Chris Long, Brian Brohm, Matt Ryan, and several other articles]]
Request details
Who are the involved parties?
Chrisjnelson, Yankees10, 72.0.36.36, CopaceticThought, RC-0722, Cgarz89, 67.137.0.28, Tromboneguy0186, Blackngold29, Star QB, Jayron32
What's going on?
You can see prior discussion on it here:
- Talk:Glenn Dorsey#Originally
- Talk:Chris_Long (American football)#"Originally drafted?"
- User Talk:Yankees10#Originally drafted
- User Talk:Chrisjnelson#Originally
- Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League#Drafted or Originally Drafted
There are a couple of users ( User:Yankees10 and User:Chrisjnelson) who have decided in the interest of uniformity to change every NFL player's article from saying "was drafted by..." to "was originally drafted by..." Their intent was to convey that this is where the player's career began. Often when a player moves to another team their article says they "originally came from such and such team and now are at another team". To make all the articles consistent they decided to make every single article say "originally" in them, even the ones who haven't moved to another team.
Since adding "originally" to every page they've they've been reverted many times. Using the word originally implies they have been drafted more than once, when in fact they have not. Or it may imply they've moved on to another team, where in fact many of them have not. Several users feel putting "originally" into an article where it doesn't make sense is wrong and sounds goofy, others have pointed out that it's bad grammar.
There has been discussions on both of their user pages about it ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Yankees10#Originally_drafted and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Chrisjnelson#Originally. This argument has potential to spiral out of control (they've put so much work into changing all the articles that at this point they wouldn't admit they were wrong even if they knew they are) so it would be nice to get mediator involvement.
What would you like to change about that?
I would like to get a third party mediator opinion on whether or not we should:
- add "originally drafted" to every professional player's page (even the ones who haven't moved to another team) in the interest of consistency at the expense of proper grammar and fluidity
- add "originally drafted" to only those players who have moved to another team at the expense of consistency
- add "originally drafted" sparingly and only where it makes sense and revert those articles where they do not make sense
- do not add "originally" on any of the articles
Mediator notes
I'll take this on as best I can. Sign below if you want a mediator:
- 67.137.0.28 ( talk) 09:17, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
- 72.0.36.36 ( talk) 04:35, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
- Black ngold29 05:00, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
- (sign here)
There are a few caveats, both to this case specifically and mediation generally:
- I won't be arguing which side is "better".
Only discuss the merits of the edits and the arguments, not the editors who make them. If you go down that route, I'll pull you back out of it :-)
I'll be closing this tomorrow, as one party does not wish to be involved or pursue the problem any further.
- Then it will have to be referred to arbitration for a ruling or administrative action. There are obviously enough people who would like to see this settled. 67.137.0.28 ( talk) 18:52, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
- Agreed. There should be a reckoning in my opinion. 72.0.36.36 ( talk) 19:27, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah! Let's kick Chris' ass!► Chris Nelson Holla! 19:35, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
- No, nothing like that. I simply think that if there is some civility the NFL project will improve. If you can continue to simply do as you please then there will be incident after incident. There is a pattern of behavior that is uncivil, no matter how many times you may be blocked, it simply does not work. For everyone to get along here it seems to me there needs to be a even playing field. If you can insult, disparrage, edit-war, etc. then wiki is dimished. 72.0.36.36 ( talk) 07:48, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
- Some of your edits far outweigh any of my actions in terms of the negative effects on Wikipedia. They just aren't technically against the rules, but it doesn't mean they aren't god awful.►
Chris Nelson
Holla! 08:24, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
- Knock it off, folks. To anon: Chrisjnelson has said he will not pursue this; and to Chris: you gotta be nicer. Threats of arbitration are ridiculous. There are wikiquette alerts, administrator noticeboards, etc., etc. But why bother with civility or good faith - anyone - when you can drop the "bad guys" off at arbitration? Xavexgoem ( talk) 09:18, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
- Some of your edits far outweigh any of my actions in terms of the negative effects on Wikipedia. They just aren't technically against the rules, but it doesn't mean they aren't god awful.►
Chris Nelson
Holla! 08:24, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Administrative notes
Discussion
Archived a bunch on talk Xavexgoem ( talk) 07:12, 9 May 2008 (UTC)