Wikipedia Mediation Cabal | |
---|---|
![]() | |
Article | Template:UK subdivisions |
Status | closed |
Request date | Unknown |
Requesting party | Unknown |
Mediator(s) | Arkyan |
Comment | Checking with participants prior to beginning |
[[Category:Wikipedia Medcab closed cases| Template:UK subdivisions]][[Category:Wikipedia medcab maintenance| Template:UK subdivisions]]
Mainly me ( User:Ras52) and User:Padraig; but also User:Biofoundationsoflanguage, User:Astrotrain, User:Fennessy, User:Barryob, User:Vintagekits and two anonymous IP addresses: 163.167.129.124 and 90.240.21.121.
This mediation request is about recent edit warring on Template:UK subdivisions (most actively) and Template:World Heritage Sites in the United Kingdom, though I believe similar arguments are happening / have happened elsewhere.
Both templates are navigation tables transcluded by a number of pages, and both group their contents by the constituent countries of the UK ( England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland). In common with a number similar templates, flags are used next to four country names. In both cases, through slightly different ways, the templates use the {{ flagicon}} template to display the appropriate flag, by writing, e.g. {{flagicon|Northern Ireland}}. This is a general purpose template that is designed to display a suitable flag at icon size for general usage. The decision as to which flag (or other icon) to display, or whether to not display a flag, is delegated to the {{ Country data Northern Ireland}} template.
Padraig's wishes to remove the NI flag by removing the use of this template. His reason is that the choice of flag used to represent Nothern Ireland is controversial with the Ulster banner being seen by some to have Unionist connotations. This is undisputed; however, it is also not relevant, in my opinion. These templates use the {{ flagicon}} template correctly, and do not specifically request that the Ulster Banner is displayed. If that template is at fault, the issue should be taken up on Template:Country data Northern Ireland. However it seems that padraig3uk has taken it up there and failed to get them to change it, and is now systematically going through Wikipedia removing uses of it that he doesn't like. The issue has also been discussed elsewhere in Wikipedia:WikiProject Northern Ireland — in fact, it sometimes feels like this and what to call the British Isles are the only things discussed there.
The result is that the self same argument repeats time after time. It has already been the subject of one Mediation Cabal case. This resulting edit wars are highly disruptive to Wikipedia, and often end with editors going along with Padraig's version just to get rid of him.
I would like the solution from the previous mediation to be agreed as a solution to these two templates and to all other similar examples.
The solution to that mediation was that the template should use {{flagicon|Northern Ireland}} (perhaps with an additional size parameter, but with no parameters to select a non-default flag). If the arguments about the Ulster Banner being partisan do indeed have merit, Padraig et al. should be encouraged to take the issue up at Template talk:Country data Northern Ireland, where those interested in such matters can argue it out, and any changes will automatically be propagated to all navigation templates.
Offering to mediate the case, asking involved parties. ɑʀк ʏɑɴ 17:17, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Note - participants may seek other remedies other than informal mediation due to previous MEDCAB case. ɑʀк ʏɑɴ 17:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
As it appears the requester is seeking other means of resolving this dispute I'm going to go ahead and close this case. If a request is made to reopen it, I will gladly do so. ɑʀк ʏɑɴ 20:52, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
I would like to reiterate a few points that I have made elsewhere. First of all, I have no attachment to the use of the Ulster Banner, though I have a very mild preference to see a flag of some sort retained.
However, I think uniformity across Wikipedia (at least where appropriate) is a good thing, and because of that, I would like to continue using a template such as {{ flagicon}} (or a similar one, if a more appropriate one exists). If something needs changing, I would rather that it were {{tl:Country data Northern Ireland}}. One reason for this is that the contributors to that template are more likely to be knowledge about the subtle overtones that different flags/icons convey than the contributors. If I'm writing about the administrative geography of the UK, I shouldn't need to understand a highly fraught question on Irish flag usage.
I make occasional edits to a list of islands by highest point. As is usual in Wikipedia, this list contains flags next to the names of the country/countries that cover the island. That means well over a hundred different flags. Now I'm sure some of these flags have local connotations that are POV (for example, some Argentinians may dislike the Union Flag-based Falklands flag being displayed by the Falklands). My point is that I shouldn't need to worry about these issues. I should be able to use the flagicon template and trust that to do the right thing. If someone converts those templates to not display an flag for Northern Ireland, I won't object, especially if some neutral image can be found instead of a flag — in fact, I'll probably support such a proposal. But what I do object to, is deleting uses of these templates, which are not per se anything but neutral.
— ras52 01:29, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia Mediation Cabal | |
---|---|
![]() | |
Article | Template:UK subdivisions |
Status | closed |
Request date | Unknown |
Requesting party | Unknown |
Mediator(s) | Arkyan |
Comment | Checking with participants prior to beginning |
[[Category:Wikipedia Medcab closed cases| Template:UK subdivisions]][[Category:Wikipedia medcab maintenance| Template:UK subdivisions]]
Mainly me ( User:Ras52) and User:Padraig; but also User:Biofoundationsoflanguage, User:Astrotrain, User:Fennessy, User:Barryob, User:Vintagekits and two anonymous IP addresses: 163.167.129.124 and 90.240.21.121.
This mediation request is about recent edit warring on Template:UK subdivisions (most actively) and Template:World Heritage Sites in the United Kingdom, though I believe similar arguments are happening / have happened elsewhere.
Both templates are navigation tables transcluded by a number of pages, and both group their contents by the constituent countries of the UK ( England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland). In common with a number similar templates, flags are used next to four country names. In both cases, through slightly different ways, the templates use the {{ flagicon}} template to display the appropriate flag, by writing, e.g. {{flagicon|Northern Ireland}}. This is a general purpose template that is designed to display a suitable flag at icon size for general usage. The decision as to which flag (or other icon) to display, or whether to not display a flag, is delegated to the {{ Country data Northern Ireland}} template.
Padraig's wishes to remove the NI flag by removing the use of this template. His reason is that the choice of flag used to represent Nothern Ireland is controversial with the Ulster banner being seen by some to have Unionist connotations. This is undisputed; however, it is also not relevant, in my opinion. These templates use the {{ flagicon}} template correctly, and do not specifically request that the Ulster Banner is displayed. If that template is at fault, the issue should be taken up on Template:Country data Northern Ireland. However it seems that padraig3uk has taken it up there and failed to get them to change it, and is now systematically going through Wikipedia removing uses of it that he doesn't like. The issue has also been discussed elsewhere in Wikipedia:WikiProject Northern Ireland — in fact, it sometimes feels like this and what to call the British Isles are the only things discussed there.
The result is that the self same argument repeats time after time. It has already been the subject of one Mediation Cabal case. This resulting edit wars are highly disruptive to Wikipedia, and often end with editors going along with Padraig's version just to get rid of him.
I would like the solution from the previous mediation to be agreed as a solution to these two templates and to all other similar examples.
The solution to that mediation was that the template should use {{flagicon|Northern Ireland}} (perhaps with an additional size parameter, but with no parameters to select a non-default flag). If the arguments about the Ulster Banner being partisan do indeed have merit, Padraig et al. should be encouraged to take the issue up at Template talk:Country data Northern Ireland, where those interested in such matters can argue it out, and any changes will automatically be propagated to all navigation templates.
Offering to mediate the case, asking involved parties. ɑʀк ʏɑɴ 17:17, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Note - participants may seek other remedies other than informal mediation due to previous MEDCAB case. ɑʀк ʏɑɴ 17:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
As it appears the requester is seeking other means of resolving this dispute I'm going to go ahead and close this case. If a request is made to reopen it, I will gladly do so. ɑʀк ʏɑɴ 20:52, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
I would like to reiterate a few points that I have made elsewhere. First of all, I have no attachment to the use of the Ulster Banner, though I have a very mild preference to see a flag of some sort retained.
However, I think uniformity across Wikipedia (at least where appropriate) is a good thing, and because of that, I would like to continue using a template such as {{ flagicon}} (or a similar one, if a more appropriate one exists). If something needs changing, I would rather that it were {{tl:Country data Northern Ireland}}. One reason for this is that the contributors to that template are more likely to be knowledge about the subtle overtones that different flags/icons convey than the contributors. If I'm writing about the administrative geography of the UK, I shouldn't need to understand a highly fraught question on Irish flag usage.
I make occasional edits to a list of islands by highest point. As is usual in Wikipedia, this list contains flags next to the names of the country/countries that cover the island. That means well over a hundred different flags. Now I'm sure some of these flags have local connotations that are POV (for example, some Argentinians may dislike the Union Flag-based Falklands flag being displayed by the Falklands). My point is that I shouldn't need to worry about these issues. I should be able to use the flagicon template and trust that to do the right thing. If someone converts those templates to not display an flag for Northern Ireland, I won't object, especially if some neutral image can be found instead of a flag — in fact, I'll probably support such a proposal. But what I do object to, is deleting uses of these templates, which are not per se anything but neutral.
— ras52 01:29, 11 August 2007 (UTC)