The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Original GA review didn't address the criteria appropriately. Specifically, I think this article fails GACR 3, as it is not sufficiently broad in its coverage and leaves out several main aspects of the topic.
I came to this article because I was interested in finding out why they are called "old-fashioned", but there is almost nothing about etymology, history, cultural impact etc. The article is also very Americocentric: I grew up in Ireland, where I don't recall ever seeing such a doughnut (even in imported media), and so I got the impression it was a Japanese invention. I don't doubt that it actually originates in America, but that kind of information should definitely be in the article. The only proper names I see are the names of several American cities and corporations in the "Variations" section. Who invented the old-fashioned doughnut? Where? When? The article currently provides none of this information, but it really should have done so before being promoted to GA.
An article being woefully incomplete like this is to be expected, but GAs are supposed to be better.
I don't know how much work would be required to bring this article to legitimate GA status, but it's obvious that the article should not have passed the original GA review last year, so reverting the bad listing seems appropriate. Following the source-searching and hard work of Northamerica1000 to improve the article to address some of my concerns, it's clear that the amount of work needed to find sources that may or may not be able to address my concerns would be quite significant, if not impossible. I still think the "broad coverage" requirement means that it should address these issues in more detail than it currently does, and if the sources don't exist or can't be located then it may not be the kind of article that should be a GA. If this is a difference in interpretation and I'm being to subjective, then I'll agree to disagree and the article will not be delisted.
Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 04:37, 15 February 2017 (UTC) (Edited 07:07, 17 February 2017 (UTC) )
It's unclear how one woujld surmise this as a Japanese inventionIf one grew up in a country where, if old-fashioned doughnuts even existed, they were extremely obscure, and never saw them mentioned in American films or TV shows, then moved to Japan where they are ubiquitous, that is a very easy thing to surmise. Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 10:28, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
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easily the shortest GA I've seen(emphasis added). I don't doubt that there are other GAs that are shorter and have held up under reassessment and that an experienced GA reviewer would have seen such, but this is about 2/3 the length of the second-shortest GA I personally happen to have read. I still think this article lacks the kind of information I would expect from a Wikipedia article on this topic, and I think if sources can't be found for said information then it's a "PERMASHORT" or a "NEARPERMASTUB" or whatever one might call such an article and is likely to raise a question for readers that there are insufficient sources to answer. I wrote a few similar articles for WP Asian Month last November (they meet GNG but there's really not all that much that could be written about them, even if they can't be called WP:PERMASTUBs). So I certainly don't think that the page should be deleted or merged or anything, just that it might not be the type of article that should be a GA. Anyway, I suspect the longer this gets the less likely it is editors other than the original nominator, the original reviewer, and the one who opened the GAR will comment. If it winds up being 2-1 then it will be no consensus to delist and I'd be cool with that, but it would still be nice if some others chimed in as well. Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 06:59, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
Comment. I am concerned that the term "old-fashioned doughnut" does not appear specifically cited in conjunction with the stated 1829 date in References 1 & 2. Yes, I can know that the original use of the term probably happened after commercial leavening agents were available but so far as I can tell this is not stated in these references. It seems to me that a better title for this article would possibly be "Cake doughnut". Shearonink ( talk) 23:47, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Original GA review didn't address the criteria appropriately. Specifically, I think this article fails GACR 3, as it is not sufficiently broad in its coverage and leaves out several main aspects of the topic.
I came to this article because I was interested in finding out why they are called "old-fashioned", but there is almost nothing about etymology, history, cultural impact etc. The article is also very Americocentric: I grew up in Ireland, where I don't recall ever seeing such a doughnut (even in imported media), and so I got the impression it was a Japanese invention. I don't doubt that it actually originates in America, but that kind of information should definitely be in the article. The only proper names I see are the names of several American cities and corporations in the "Variations" section. Who invented the old-fashioned doughnut? Where? When? The article currently provides none of this information, but it really should have done so before being promoted to GA.
An article being woefully incomplete like this is to be expected, but GAs are supposed to be better.
I don't know how much work would be required to bring this article to legitimate GA status, but it's obvious that the article should not have passed the original GA review last year, so reverting the bad listing seems appropriate. Following the source-searching and hard work of Northamerica1000 to improve the article to address some of my concerns, it's clear that the amount of work needed to find sources that may or may not be able to address my concerns would be quite significant, if not impossible. I still think the "broad coverage" requirement means that it should address these issues in more detail than it currently does, and if the sources don't exist or can't be located then it may not be the kind of article that should be a GA. If this is a difference in interpretation and I'm being to subjective, then I'll agree to disagree and the article will not be delisted.
Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 04:37, 15 February 2017 (UTC) (Edited 07:07, 17 February 2017 (UTC) )
It's unclear how one woujld surmise this as a Japanese inventionIf one grew up in a country where, if old-fashioned doughnuts even existed, they were extremely obscure, and never saw them mentioned in American films or TV shows, then moved to Japan where they are ubiquitous, that is a very easy thing to surmise. Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 10:28, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
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easily the shortest GA I've seen(emphasis added). I don't doubt that there are other GAs that are shorter and have held up under reassessment and that an experienced GA reviewer would have seen such, but this is about 2/3 the length of the second-shortest GA I personally happen to have read. I still think this article lacks the kind of information I would expect from a Wikipedia article on this topic, and I think if sources can't be found for said information then it's a "PERMASHORT" or a "NEARPERMASTUB" or whatever one might call such an article and is likely to raise a question for readers that there are insufficient sources to answer. I wrote a few similar articles for WP Asian Month last November (they meet GNG but there's really not all that much that could be written about them, even if they can't be called WP:PERMASTUBs). So I certainly don't think that the page should be deleted or merged or anything, just that it might not be the type of article that should be a GA. Anyway, I suspect the longer this gets the less likely it is editors other than the original nominator, the original reviewer, and the one who opened the GAR will comment. If it winds up being 2-1 then it will be no consensus to delist and I'd be cool with that, but it would still be nice if some others chimed in as well. Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 06:59, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
Comment. I am concerned that the term "old-fashioned doughnut" does not appear specifically cited in conjunction with the stated 1829 date in References 1 & 2. Yes, I can know that the original use of the term probably happened after commercial leavening agents were available but so far as I can tell this is not stated in these references. It seems to me that a better title for this article would possibly be "Cake doughnut". Shearonink ( talk) 23:47, 18 February 2017 (UTC)