Result: kept
hamiltonstone (
talk)
00:14, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
It appears that activity at the article over the last several months may have dropped a number of crieria. Main concerns are focus, scope, nuetrality, references (which need checking after months of additions), a pamphlet like formating, undue weight issues, some possible image use problems. Unstable. Reverts and possible edit warring.--
Amadscientist (
talk)
04:20, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
I wonder if it might be possible to put this GAR request on hold, as there is already a pending peer review. Thanks. 198.228.201.153 ( talk) 05:09, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
As for the GAR, as primary author of the article I believe that it still meets the GA criteria. I believe its focus and scope and weighting are appropriate for the topic and mirror how the main biographical sources on Romney treat his life and career. I believe the article is neutral – it covers the full Romney, good bad or indifferent. The "pamphlet-like formatting" is an allusion to the article's use of box quotes, which I have now removed. I do not believe it has any image use problems in terms of licensing. The images could be better quality, of course, and it would be nice to have one of the subject before age 55, and it would be nice to have a formal portrait as top photo, but this is Wikipedia and you take what you can get. I believe the references are all correctly placed and formatted - I keep a close eye on them. I run 'checklinks' periodically and I see just now there are four deadlinks that come up; I'll address those.
As for stability, have there been reverts and edit warring? Yes, how could there not be with a topic like this? Since the article became GA, a lot of editors have arrived who care only about content, often a particular piece of content. They don't care about MoS conformance or cite formatting or consistent levels of detail or recentism. But I've been dealing with that and I believe I have been successful at keeping the article at a GA/FA level. If you look at the article in the middle of the day when I'm at work, will you see a bare url cite? Yes, it's possible, but if the content stays in, I'll fix up the cite. And so forth. Again, an article like this at a time like this is never going to be the perfect model of stability - but the Obama and McCain articles were both FA during the 2008 campaign, despite undergoing similar levels of editor activity, and I certainly believe this one can be GA/FA during this campaign.
Anyway, I always welcome feedback, and especially from the GAR community. Wasted Time R ( talk) 12:33, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes, upon a re-look I agree, the public domain claim on that image is somewhat dubious. Hodgson-Burnett's Secret Garden added several under the 'published in the United States between 1923 and 1977 and without a copyright notice' rationale, but that's a hard negative to prove and some of the others have already been thrown out. In this case, who's to know what the copyright status is on that photograph? This image is also used in George Romney presidential campaign, 1968 article, but there it would qualify as legitimate fair use, but not here.
I don't think that "Note 10" in the article is at all necessary, and it seems contrary to WP:Summary style. The note details the dog incident in 1983, but the main text already wlinks to the pertinent sub-article, Mitt Romney dog incident. 71.88.58.198 ( talk) 07:27, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
This article, by omission, presents a strong subjective impression: For example, regarding Romney's education, "...at first did not excel academically... During his final year at Cranbook, he improved academically, but was still not a star pupil." would be significantly improved if the negative "did not excel" was specifically a quotation of a report card, or his ranking among his class, and the second sentence in my quotation is really meaningless, but implies achievement. Again, a negative "still not a star pupil" which could mean he graduated (like me) 498th out of 503. My next issue is with this: "In February 2010, Romney had a minor altercation with LMFAO member Skyler Gordy, known as Sky Blu, on an airplane flight." Here, the adjective, minor, is the problem. I would contend that no altercation on an airplane is "minor" and compounding that, one of the antagonists is a candidate for President of the United States. This event, if it is to be reported in the article at all, should be detailed. The same is true of "many pranks." Since the article also says that Mr. Romney lately appologized for the pranks it seems that specifics are in order. IMO this is not GA and certainly not FA. Anewcharliega ( talk) 21:40, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Now you are just making stuff up. I encourage you to register an account so that further communication is done in a consistant manner...and brush up on copyright. You know very little about it or at least don't seem keen on making accurate statements about such. Thanks.-- Amadscientist ( talk) 04:30, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
I am responding to the request from Eustress on the GAR talk page, that an uninvolved user take a look at this. I am closing this as kept. I think everyone involved here has shown constructive interest in improving the article, and there has been some useful discussion and action. I remind editors of a principle behind GAR: "GAR can sometimes provide more feedback for delisted articles or failed GA nominations. However, it is not a peer review process; for that see Wikipedia:Peer review. The outcome of a reassessment should only depend on whether the article being reassessed meets the good article criteria or not." It appears to me that the article meets GA criteria. It is certainly not perfect, and i am sure it will benefit from review, such as at PR. Howev=er, it meets GA criteria. I also note from the edit history that it is being actively improved by experienced editors (esp. Wasted Time R), in which case it would be best simply to raise suggestions or concerns on the article talk page. Thank you to everyone involved for taking an interest in the article and a constructive approach to the discussion. hamiltonstone ( talk) 00:14, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Result: kept
hamiltonstone (
talk)
00:14, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
It appears that activity at the article over the last several months may have dropped a number of crieria. Main concerns are focus, scope, nuetrality, references (which need checking after months of additions), a pamphlet like formating, undue weight issues, some possible image use problems. Unstable. Reverts and possible edit warring.--
Amadscientist (
talk)
04:20, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
I wonder if it might be possible to put this GAR request on hold, as there is already a pending peer review. Thanks. 198.228.201.153 ( talk) 05:09, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
As for the GAR, as primary author of the article I believe that it still meets the GA criteria. I believe its focus and scope and weighting are appropriate for the topic and mirror how the main biographical sources on Romney treat his life and career. I believe the article is neutral – it covers the full Romney, good bad or indifferent. The "pamphlet-like formatting" is an allusion to the article's use of box quotes, which I have now removed. I do not believe it has any image use problems in terms of licensing. The images could be better quality, of course, and it would be nice to have one of the subject before age 55, and it would be nice to have a formal portrait as top photo, but this is Wikipedia and you take what you can get. I believe the references are all correctly placed and formatted - I keep a close eye on them. I run 'checklinks' periodically and I see just now there are four deadlinks that come up; I'll address those.
As for stability, have there been reverts and edit warring? Yes, how could there not be with a topic like this? Since the article became GA, a lot of editors have arrived who care only about content, often a particular piece of content. They don't care about MoS conformance or cite formatting or consistent levels of detail or recentism. But I've been dealing with that and I believe I have been successful at keeping the article at a GA/FA level. If you look at the article in the middle of the day when I'm at work, will you see a bare url cite? Yes, it's possible, but if the content stays in, I'll fix up the cite. And so forth. Again, an article like this at a time like this is never going to be the perfect model of stability - but the Obama and McCain articles were both FA during the 2008 campaign, despite undergoing similar levels of editor activity, and I certainly believe this one can be GA/FA during this campaign.
Anyway, I always welcome feedback, and especially from the GAR community. Wasted Time R ( talk) 12:33, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes, upon a re-look I agree, the public domain claim on that image is somewhat dubious. Hodgson-Burnett's Secret Garden added several under the 'published in the United States between 1923 and 1977 and without a copyright notice' rationale, but that's a hard negative to prove and some of the others have already been thrown out. In this case, who's to know what the copyright status is on that photograph? This image is also used in George Romney presidential campaign, 1968 article, but there it would qualify as legitimate fair use, but not here.
I don't think that "Note 10" in the article is at all necessary, and it seems contrary to WP:Summary style. The note details the dog incident in 1983, but the main text already wlinks to the pertinent sub-article, Mitt Romney dog incident. 71.88.58.198 ( talk) 07:27, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
This article, by omission, presents a strong subjective impression: For example, regarding Romney's education, "...at first did not excel academically... During his final year at Cranbook, he improved academically, but was still not a star pupil." would be significantly improved if the negative "did not excel" was specifically a quotation of a report card, or his ranking among his class, and the second sentence in my quotation is really meaningless, but implies achievement. Again, a negative "still not a star pupil" which could mean he graduated (like me) 498th out of 503. My next issue is with this: "In February 2010, Romney had a minor altercation with LMFAO member Skyler Gordy, known as Sky Blu, on an airplane flight." Here, the adjective, minor, is the problem. I would contend that no altercation on an airplane is "minor" and compounding that, one of the antagonists is a candidate for President of the United States. This event, if it is to be reported in the article at all, should be detailed. The same is true of "many pranks." Since the article also says that Mr. Romney lately appologized for the pranks it seems that specifics are in order. IMO this is not GA and certainly not FA. Anewcharliega ( talk) 21:40, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Now you are just making stuff up. I encourage you to register an account so that further communication is done in a consistant manner...and brush up on copyright. You know very little about it or at least don't seem keen on making accurate statements about such. Thanks.-- Amadscientist ( talk) 04:30, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
I am responding to the request from Eustress on the GAR talk page, that an uninvolved user take a look at this. I am closing this as kept. I think everyone involved here has shown constructive interest in improving the article, and there has been some useful discussion and action. I remind editors of a principle behind GAR: "GAR can sometimes provide more feedback for delisted articles or failed GA nominations. However, it is not a peer review process; for that see Wikipedia:Peer review. The outcome of a reassessment should only depend on whether the article being reassessed meets the good article criteria or not." It appears to me that the article meets GA criteria. It is certainly not perfect, and i am sure it will benefit from review, such as at PR. Howev=er, it meets GA criteria. I also note from the edit history that it is being actively improved by experienced editors (esp. Wasted Time R), in which case it would be best simply to raise suggestions or concerns on the article talk page. Thank you to everyone involved for taking an interest in the article and a constructive approach to the discussion. hamiltonstone ( talk) 00:14, 24 August 2012 (UTC)