This geography topic covers all of the 800 plus islands of Scotland in the featured lists/GAs and provides GA, FA or FL coverage of the geology, history, wildlife etc. of all the important archipelagos. My thanks to the numerous other contributors to these articles and the reviewers who helped iron out their deficiencies. --
BenMacDui19:25, 28 April 2011 (UTC)reply
I fixed it, just waiting for the old name to be deleted. It was created by not changing the name in the nomination template.
Zginder 2011-05-01T20:14Z (
UTC)
Created - am I right in thinking the report stats on the talk page are bot generated? Couldn't see any obvious guidance.
BenMacDui07:34, 2 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Oppose The topic does not seem to be comprehensive as there are several missing islands. For example, forgive me if I missed it (my geography is pretty bad) but I don't see
Eileach an Naoimh in the topic or in any of the sublists.
Adabow (
talk ·
contribs)
06:11, 2 May 2011 (UTC)reply
That is certainly the intention and there are of course a large number of other islets listed that don't have articles. The exception is
Hinba - because we don't know where it is (or rather we don't know it's modern name).
BenMacDui07:45, 2 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Many thanks for your support. I did a quick re-organisation —sorry to be dense, but I am not sure what you mean about piping the lists. If you can be a bit more specific I'd be happy to have a look at this.
BenMacDui17:58, 2 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Comment - should the topic of the title not be something like "Island groups of Scotland"? The title "Islands of Scotland" could be taken to imply that the topic includes the articles on every Scottish island and, well, it doesn't.......... --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
18:29, 8 May 2011 (UTC)reply
I had not really considered that as an implication - as mentioned above it does include every island. However, I am not very familiar with FT protocols. I think "Islands of... " would be my first choice as its simpler, it follows the
Main template and it would be entirely impractical to create an FT that did include every island, but I could go with "Island groups of..." if that was felt to be more consistent with existing usage.
BenMacDui17:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Support - I think it's fine to title it "Islands of", as all individual island articles are covered by a parent article that's in the topic here. --PresN18:40, 10 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Comment—Why is
Hebrides not included? Also, I would prefer that you have "List of islands" instead of "List of" under the Inner and Outer Hebrides.
Ucucha10:08, 24 May 2011 (UTC)reply
The latter is fixed. The former is a more complex question. The topic aims to list all the islands of Scotland and to provide an overview for all the main archipelagos. The "Hebrides" is of course a collective name for the Inner and Outer Hebrides and there is an argument for its inclusion. Any overview content would however essentially duplicate that of the other two articles and at present the Hebrides article is heavily slanted towards detailed etymology. Likewise
Northern Isles. Moving in the opposite direction there is a case for including the smaller archipelagos contained within the larger such as
Small Isles,
Garvellachs, the
Slate Islands etc. - the possible permutations are large. There is a slightly more detailed analysis of these and some other history-related issues at
Wikipedia talk:Featured topic questions#Islands of Scotland where I anticipated the question. Lacking familiarity with procedures here I can only fall back on the principal that the topic as defined is complete, and that I can't see any obvious statement in the
topic criteria that means that all permutations of the collective entities must be included.
BenMacDui17:49, 24 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Well, the criteria say that (criterion 1e) "For overview topics [of which this is one], every article within the scope of the topic that is not included in the topic should also be within the scope of a non-lead article that is included in the topic." Articles like the Small Isles don't need to be included, because they are already within the scope of a member article of the topic (Inner Hebrides). Also, I don't think the historical topics (like
Kingdom of the Isles) that you mention at "Featured topic questions" would fall under the scope of "Islands of Scotland"—rather under "History of Scotland". However, I think the criteria mandate that Hebrides (and
Northern Isles, a term I wasn't aware of) should be included, since they are as much part of "Islands of Scotland" as the smaller groups they are subdivided in, and don't fall within the scope of any article that is currently in the topic. It would be a shame if your good work on the islands articles isn't rewarded with a GT, but I think the topics fails the criteria as long as you don't make these two articles into GAs.
Ucucha18:04, 24 May 2011 (UTC)reply
We would really need a
Venn diagram to show the permutations, but (as I understand what you are saying) "North Isles" - although including some Inner and some Outer Hebrides fits within 1e, but "Northern Isles" doesn't because it includes all Orkney and Shetland islands. "Hebrides" as a collective noun isn't within 1e but "islands of the east coast' we can ignore because its an occasional phrase rather than a word. The "Isles" in the
Kingdom of the Isles include all the Hebrides and the Islands of the Clyde but we can ignore that because its historical. It's little wonder there are so few geography FTs if this is the form of logic used - the world is not box-shaped! I am sure you can understand it is also frustrating to get an answer of this kind to a question I raised myself on the questions page without any reply and I wonder what other editors think.
BenMacDui18:48, 24 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Perhaps my logic is botched (I hope it is, since I don't want to oppose this topic). "North Isles" would fall within the scope of "Hebrides", I think. The Kingdom of the Isles was primarily a political, not geographical entity, and also included the Isle of Man, so I don't think it would fall directly within "Islands of Scotland" in any interpretation. Of course, I also welcome other people's opinions.
Ucucha18:58, 24 May 2011 (UTC)reply
You are right - North Isles would fall under Hebrides. The odd thing about this approach is that I can't see any logical objection to a Topic that just had Hebrides and Northern Isles, without any of the crucial detail provided by the Inner/Outer/Orkney/Shetland articles - and the easy way to include Hebrides and Northern Isles is to simply cut and past the existing information into summary style GAs without adding anything new. I notice that I am beginning to come up with all sorts of questions that are in no way relevant to this nomination. I will attempt to tart up these two articles, which are pretty lame, in the meantime instead.
BenMacDui18:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Hebrides is now a GAN and Northern Isles is nearly there. Can I check that when you say above that "it would be a shame if your good work on the islands articles isn't rewarded with a GT" that this is a typo for "FT"? I am assuming it will still qualify with 8/16 FA & FLs assuming Hebrides and Northern Isles are required and both pass.
BenMacDui11:49, 29 May 2011 (UTC) (I was of course forgetting to mention a different
North Isles.)reply
Hebrides is now a GA (with thanks to a patient reviewer) and added to the template above. Northern Isles will be a GAN when I have ce'd the refs.
BenMacDui20:20, 1 June 2011 (UTC)reply
Having dealt with the final holdout in this topic (which involved merging a redundant article), I am now happy to nominate these articles as part of the topic for the
2006 Atlantic hurricane season. It wasn't a particularly notable season, having occurred on the heels of the insanely epic 2005 season (which had Katrina, among other gems). There is some cause for discussion, whether
Tropical Storm Zeta (2005) should be included or not. On one hand, it did occur in the calendar year of 2006, but on the other hand, no one actually considers it part of the 2006 season. Nevertheless, it is a GA, so I thought I'd include it here for now. All of the other storms in 2006 have articles and are at least GA class, along with the featured timeline. --♫
Hurricanehink (
talk)
00:22, 24 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Support without Zeta- it may have been in the 2006 calendar year, but it was not in the 2006 hurricane season, which starts in 2006, but is not bound to end on Dec31. --PresN01:24, 30 May 2011 (UTC)reply
This geography topic covers all of the 800 plus islands of Scotland in the featured lists/GAs and provides GA, FA or FL coverage of the geology, history, wildlife etc. of all the important archipelagos. My thanks to the numerous other contributors to these articles and the reviewers who helped iron out their deficiencies. --
BenMacDui19:25, 28 April 2011 (UTC)reply
I fixed it, just waiting for the old name to be deleted. It was created by not changing the name in the nomination template.
Zginder 2011-05-01T20:14Z (
UTC)
Created - am I right in thinking the report stats on the talk page are bot generated? Couldn't see any obvious guidance.
BenMacDui07:34, 2 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Oppose The topic does not seem to be comprehensive as there are several missing islands. For example, forgive me if I missed it (my geography is pretty bad) but I don't see
Eileach an Naoimh in the topic or in any of the sublists.
Adabow (
talk ·
contribs)
06:11, 2 May 2011 (UTC)reply
That is certainly the intention and there are of course a large number of other islets listed that don't have articles. The exception is
Hinba - because we don't know where it is (or rather we don't know it's modern name).
BenMacDui07:45, 2 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Many thanks for your support. I did a quick re-organisation —sorry to be dense, but I am not sure what you mean about piping the lists. If you can be a bit more specific I'd be happy to have a look at this.
BenMacDui17:58, 2 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Comment - should the topic of the title not be something like "Island groups of Scotland"? The title "Islands of Scotland" could be taken to imply that the topic includes the articles on every Scottish island and, well, it doesn't.......... --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
18:29, 8 May 2011 (UTC)reply
I had not really considered that as an implication - as mentioned above it does include every island. However, I am not very familiar with FT protocols. I think "Islands of... " would be my first choice as its simpler, it follows the
Main template and it would be entirely impractical to create an FT that did include every island, but I could go with "Island groups of..." if that was felt to be more consistent with existing usage.
BenMacDui17:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Support - I think it's fine to title it "Islands of", as all individual island articles are covered by a parent article that's in the topic here. --PresN18:40, 10 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Comment—Why is
Hebrides not included? Also, I would prefer that you have "List of islands" instead of "List of" under the Inner and Outer Hebrides.
Ucucha10:08, 24 May 2011 (UTC)reply
The latter is fixed. The former is a more complex question. The topic aims to list all the islands of Scotland and to provide an overview for all the main archipelagos. The "Hebrides" is of course a collective name for the Inner and Outer Hebrides and there is an argument for its inclusion. Any overview content would however essentially duplicate that of the other two articles and at present the Hebrides article is heavily slanted towards detailed etymology. Likewise
Northern Isles. Moving in the opposite direction there is a case for including the smaller archipelagos contained within the larger such as
Small Isles,
Garvellachs, the
Slate Islands etc. - the possible permutations are large. There is a slightly more detailed analysis of these and some other history-related issues at
Wikipedia talk:Featured topic questions#Islands of Scotland where I anticipated the question. Lacking familiarity with procedures here I can only fall back on the principal that the topic as defined is complete, and that I can't see any obvious statement in the
topic criteria that means that all permutations of the collective entities must be included.
BenMacDui17:49, 24 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Well, the criteria say that (criterion 1e) "For overview topics [of which this is one], every article within the scope of the topic that is not included in the topic should also be within the scope of a non-lead article that is included in the topic." Articles like the Small Isles don't need to be included, because they are already within the scope of a member article of the topic (Inner Hebrides). Also, I don't think the historical topics (like
Kingdom of the Isles) that you mention at "Featured topic questions" would fall under the scope of "Islands of Scotland"—rather under "History of Scotland". However, I think the criteria mandate that Hebrides (and
Northern Isles, a term I wasn't aware of) should be included, since they are as much part of "Islands of Scotland" as the smaller groups they are subdivided in, and don't fall within the scope of any article that is currently in the topic. It would be a shame if your good work on the islands articles isn't rewarded with a GT, but I think the topics fails the criteria as long as you don't make these two articles into GAs.
Ucucha18:04, 24 May 2011 (UTC)reply
We would really need a
Venn diagram to show the permutations, but (as I understand what you are saying) "North Isles" - although including some Inner and some Outer Hebrides fits within 1e, but "Northern Isles" doesn't because it includes all Orkney and Shetland islands. "Hebrides" as a collective noun isn't within 1e but "islands of the east coast' we can ignore because its an occasional phrase rather than a word. The "Isles" in the
Kingdom of the Isles include all the Hebrides and the Islands of the Clyde but we can ignore that because its historical. It's little wonder there are so few geography FTs if this is the form of logic used - the world is not box-shaped! I am sure you can understand it is also frustrating to get an answer of this kind to a question I raised myself on the questions page without any reply and I wonder what other editors think.
BenMacDui18:48, 24 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Perhaps my logic is botched (I hope it is, since I don't want to oppose this topic). "North Isles" would fall within the scope of "Hebrides", I think. The Kingdom of the Isles was primarily a political, not geographical entity, and also included the Isle of Man, so I don't think it would fall directly within "Islands of Scotland" in any interpretation. Of course, I also welcome other people's opinions.
Ucucha18:58, 24 May 2011 (UTC)reply
You are right - North Isles would fall under Hebrides. The odd thing about this approach is that I can't see any logical objection to a Topic that just had Hebrides and Northern Isles, without any of the crucial detail provided by the Inner/Outer/Orkney/Shetland articles - and the easy way to include Hebrides and Northern Isles is to simply cut and past the existing information into summary style GAs without adding anything new. I notice that I am beginning to come up with all sorts of questions that are in no way relevant to this nomination. I will attempt to tart up these two articles, which are pretty lame, in the meantime instead.
BenMacDui18:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Hebrides is now a GAN and Northern Isles is nearly there. Can I check that when you say above that "it would be a shame if your good work on the islands articles isn't rewarded with a GT" that this is a typo for "FT"? I am assuming it will still qualify with 8/16 FA & FLs assuming Hebrides and Northern Isles are required and both pass.
BenMacDui11:49, 29 May 2011 (UTC) (I was of course forgetting to mention a different
North Isles.)reply
Hebrides is now a GA (with thanks to a patient reviewer) and added to the template above. Northern Isles will be a GAN when I have ce'd the refs.
BenMacDui20:20, 1 June 2011 (UTC)reply
Having dealt with the final holdout in this topic (which involved merging a redundant article), I am now happy to nominate these articles as part of the topic for the
2006 Atlantic hurricane season. It wasn't a particularly notable season, having occurred on the heels of the insanely epic 2005 season (which had Katrina, among other gems). There is some cause for discussion, whether
Tropical Storm Zeta (2005) should be included or not. On one hand, it did occur in the calendar year of 2006, but on the other hand, no one actually considers it part of the 2006 season. Nevertheless, it is a GA, so I thought I'd include it here for now. All of the other storms in 2006 have articles and are at least GA class, along with the featured timeline. --♫
Hurricanehink (
talk)
00:22, 24 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Support without Zeta- it may have been in the 2006 calendar year, but it was not in the 2006 hurricane season, which starts in 2006, but is not bound to end on Dec31. --PresN01:24, 30 May 2011 (UTC)reply