Landscape in Kurdistan Province of Iran, near Sanandaj. This photo was taken by Kourosh Anbari. I emailed him asking for permission to use the photo and he agreed and sent me a version of the photo with high resolution (see his photo gallery:
http://www.chawshar.panjare.org/). This beautiful image, demonstrates the landscape of
Kurdistan province very well, which is mostly mountainous and covered with scattered jungles.
Strong Support #1 From the first moment I saw this photo, about few months ago, I put it on
Iran and Kurdistan Province article because I knew it deserves more. I've been searching for a higher resolution for FP nomination and here it is. thanks for the higher resolution Marmoulak. To the technical part, this lovely photo has a great qulity, a great mix of colors of a great landscape. Very good encyclopedic value because it describes Kurdistan Hills and ofcourse, Hills of Iran in general. Perfectly taken at spring, and thanks again.
Arad00:18, 12 September 2006 (UTC)reply
I still prefer #1 over the edit. #1 is truly Number 1.
Comment. Edit A is a less-saturated, but still very saturated, alternative, with better color balance and less "burntness" IMHO. –
Outʀiggʀ00:03, 12 September 2006 (UTC)reply
It is a copyvio apperantly based on above comment and
this link.
Did "Kourosh Anbari" agree to release it with a free license?
Support The colours look a bit un-natural - it's obviously been 'enhanced', but it'll do until a better one comes along. Would it be possible to ask the photographer to get hold of the original exposure that doesn't look like the whole landscape has been
anfaledby saddam - or was that by design?
If so why are the images still (c)'ed?
As it is, image is a copyvio and can be deleted in seven days.
This is the email I sent him: I was wondering if you would allow the use of this photo taken by you under creative common license similar to these ones:
از نظر من هیچ ایرادی نداره که عکسی که گذاشتید در ویکیپدیا باشه.ولی اگر لطف کنید و ویرایش جدید همان عکس را آنجا بگذارید بسیار سپاسگزار خواهم شد.من برای شما ویرایش جدید با کیفیت بهتر میفرستم و آدرس فتوبلاگم را هم میتوانید داشته باشید تا از آن استفاده کنید.
با احترام
کورش عنبری
Translation: I see no problem with the use this photo in wikipedia. I am sending you a high resolution version of photo, you can also use other photos on my website.
He has to explicity state what license the images are released under. Permission isn't good enough. Furthermore his website should not be conflicting this desicion (with (c)'s). The implications of the free licenses should also be explained to him. --
Catout00:11, 12 September 2006 (UTC)reply
I mentioned the type of license in my email to him and he agreed, as simple as that. The license reserves some rights and the photographer will be credited if the photo be used outside wikipedia. Your objection base on copyvio is unacceptable and the photo, as mentioned already, was take from a landscape in
Kurdistan Province, near the city of
Sanandaj. (
Marmoulak00:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC))reply
Why is the website seen as "conflicting"? It's a different image, with a size not available on the website, lacking a copyright declaration that obviously hasn't just been cropped off. They're two different things, so they don't conflict. Not to mention that a copyright tag on the website does not, in itself, contradict CC (IANACL). –
Outʀiggʀ00:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Obviously This size is not available on the website because I asked for a higher resolution version and he sent it to me. The photos on his website have that copyright tag to prevent others from taking credit for the photos. He has no problem with the photos being used if he is credited as the photographer. (
Marmoulak01:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC))reply
He has to explicitly state the license and remove the (c) notice from his website. We can't have license conflicts. Images can and will be deleted in the absence of this.
"Ir Kurdistan" is a large area (assuming it ment to referance to "Iraninan kurdistan") and a vaigue deffinition. Thats like saying "Un Florida". Is it not posible to identify the location with greater detail? Do the hills have a name?
I don't see any justification for saying that he must remove the copyright notice from his website. He does retain the copyright; releasing something under a Free licence does not mean disclaiming copyright. He is also free to release the same content under multiple licences; the licencee is free to use any they prefer.
He can't retain "copyrights". He can retain "ownership" (and he can do this conditionaly with licenses like GNU or cc rather than PD) so (c) is a license conflict. He can tag them with whatever license he agrees to. --
Catout03:51, 12 September 2006 (UTC)reply
The author can use different license for the same material, please state a law or policy to prove your claim. Nevertheless, the photo that has the (c) tag is a different version and is different from this one.
Marmoulak05:18, 12 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Both images are practicaly the same. It's just that the ones on wikipedia are slighly larger... That's not something creative enough to be considered something new so old copyright still applies. Normaly such a thing would be deleted in seven days. (c) means the image is copyrighted and is not in any way free. You can't use someone elses image on wikipedia unless it is either under {{fairuse}} or the creator follows this procedure. See
Wikipedia:Copyrights (and linked pages). Issue has been discussed to death there.
I am actualy doing you a favor, I could have simply left the image alone had I not been in awe of it and it would be deleted eventualy.
Wikipedia:Copyrights clearly states, if "you own the copyright to the material you retain copyright to your materials. You can later republish and relicense them in any way you like. However, you can never retract the GFDL license for the versions you placed here: that material will remain under GFDL forever."
I talked to the author through Yahoo Messenger and reminded him that the version that I have uploaded on wikipedia under 'cc' license can be use by anyone and will remain under this license forever. According to him this image is free as long as the author is credited. Of course the author can "republish and relicense the photo in any way he likes", ie. licensing it under (c) on his website.
Marmoulak14:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)reply
I told you, thats not good enough. Please do not argue as this is the procedure folowed on all images retrieved from the web. Your word, while I trust it, does not satisfy the procedure. Free license allows the creator or anyone to republish in any way they like. For the images to stay with a free license we need a written permision explicitly stateting the license. This should be sent to permissions@wikimedia.org. Furthermore you really want to avoid license conflicts. He can simply state that images are avalible with a free license on his website for instance on the bottom of the page (this would make your and my life easier). All this is basicaly to avoid something like
this and not to violate authors copyrights. --
Catout00:20, 13 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Just wanted to point out that this version of the image (high resolution) is not retrieved or retrievable from web, all the versions around the web are low resolution ones. Mr. Anbari sent the high-resolution version to my email. --
Marmoulak20:23, 13 September 2006 (UTC)reply
You still need to resolve this issue with permissions@wikimedia.org . My oppose is an official one. No copyvio can be a featured picture. --
Catout04:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Although this image is definitely not a copyvio and doesnt need any additional written permissions, to prevent any problems I asked Kuresh Anbari to sent an email allowing the use of this image under 'cc' to permissions@wikimedia.org and he did:
Image was and will be a copyvio until permissions@wikimedia.org says otherwise. Note that the actual copyvio process (7 day deletion) is not being observed as I am looking the other way... --
Catout05:10, 15 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Cat, there is no ambiguity in 'Kurdistan Province' as there is only one
Kurdistan Province and that is a province in Iran. As I mentioned earlier this landscape is an area near
Sanandaj. According Mr. Anbari, This an area located in the south west of
Sanandaj near the village of Kealaneh.(
Marmoulak03:43, 12 September 2006 (UTC))reply
The steps taken satisfy the copyright requirements of wikipedia. The same image in different size can have seperate licenses. And the same image can have multiple licenses. And once released the CC the author can claim anything he likes and it does not nullify the CC declaration.
HighInBC13:09, 15 September 2006 (UTC)reply
The copyright criteria wont be satisfied until permissions@wikimedia.org says so.
The same image in different size can have seperate licenses, this is true. Not because of size differences, but because the author released either one with a different license. CC would apply to both since the images are too similar (actualy identical)
You can have multiple licenses but it will cause problems. Full copyright and CC license conflict each other (The two licenses are the opposite of eachother). This will be very problematic on the long run. Every image on authors webpage is tagged with a (c). This is rather unusual for a person who can easily release images under CC yet be overprotective with (c) tags. Does the author understand that I can copy this image in any way I please for any purpose?
Cleanest way is that the author present the multiple licenses and disclaimer on his webpage. This not only verifies the authors intent but also serves as a future referance. If author is really releasing the images under CC, there shouldn't be a problem doing this.
Ok, first, when an assurance of CC declaration is made, we assume good faith on that until evidence is provided to the contrary, we don't wait for permissions@ to give us the go ahead. Also you seem to be confusing (c) with 'All rights reserved'. When you put something into the creative commons you still hold the copyright, you have just given permission for it to be used. Also, if someone releases an image to CC and then later shows a contradictory license, it is still CC. CC cannot be taken back.
HighInBC16:52, 18 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Neutral for Edit A; Oppose all others. "Edit A" is the only version that approaches reality in color saturation, though it too is a bit overdone. AFAIK, none of these images appears on any article, though. --
Moondigger17:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Oppose. The first two clearly have color problems; the third looks realistic but we don't really have any way of knowing how far off it actually is.--
ragesoss20:36, 16 September 2006 (UTC)reply
if you had actually looked at the photographer's website you would know that this photo was taken by a professional photographer and there are also several photos from the same landscape:
Strong Oppose all versions Oversaturated even in Edit A, sky/clouds are flat as though they've been heavily de-noised, weird smudging on mountains, foreground is grainy. Also there are some patches under the trees to the right (middle-ground) which look as though they've been badly cloned, although that could be my imagination. Certainly not featured-quality anyway, IMHO. --
Yummifruitbat23:01, 16 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Comment Thinking about this image then looking at others on the photographer's website, the images of this location look almost like false-colour IR photos, particularly
this one. Has anyone asked the photographer if the 'Ir' in Ir_kurdistan.jpg really did stand for Iran? --
Yummifruitbat03:08, 17 September 2006 (UTC)reply
I named the photo Ir_Kurdistan when I uploaded it, not the photographer. This photo is not an infrared photography and I dont know what you mean by false-colour but I have visited
Kurdistan Province and this picture reminds me of the landscape of the province, I clearly remember the scattered jungles and the pink colored trees. -
Marmoulak03:47, 17 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Support I think that this picture has a very good quality. It also shows a very beautiful part of Iran that may interest many Wikipedians.
Wikilo1205:44, 17 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Support The colours look a bit un-natural - it's obviously been 'enhanced', but it'll do until a better one comes along. Would it be possible to ask the photographer to get hold of the original exposure that doesn't look like the whole landscape has been
anfaled - or was that by design?
I think it is a referance to the gas attack in Iraq ruining nature as well as people which really has nothing to do with Iran. --
Catout13:23, 17 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Promoted Image:Hills south west of Sanandaj near the village of Kilaneh.jpg
Landscape in Kurdistan Province of Iran, near Sanandaj. This photo was taken by Kourosh Anbari. I emailed him asking for permission to use the photo and he agreed and sent me a version of the photo with high resolution (see his photo gallery:
http://www.chawshar.panjare.org/). This beautiful image, demonstrates the landscape of
Kurdistan province very well, which is mostly mountainous and covered with scattered jungles.
Strong Support #1 From the first moment I saw this photo, about few months ago, I put it on
Iran and Kurdistan Province article because I knew it deserves more. I've been searching for a higher resolution for FP nomination and here it is. thanks for the higher resolution Marmoulak. To the technical part, this lovely photo has a great qulity, a great mix of colors of a great landscape. Very good encyclopedic value because it describes Kurdistan Hills and ofcourse, Hills of Iran in general. Perfectly taken at spring, and thanks again.
Arad00:18, 12 September 2006 (UTC)reply
I still prefer #1 over the edit. #1 is truly Number 1.
Comment. Edit A is a less-saturated, but still very saturated, alternative, with better color balance and less "burntness" IMHO. –
Outʀiggʀ00:03, 12 September 2006 (UTC)reply
It is a copyvio apperantly based on above comment and
this link.
Did "Kourosh Anbari" agree to release it with a free license?
Support The colours look a bit un-natural - it's obviously been 'enhanced', but it'll do until a better one comes along. Would it be possible to ask the photographer to get hold of the original exposure that doesn't look like the whole landscape has been
anfaledby saddam - or was that by design?
If so why are the images still (c)'ed?
As it is, image is a copyvio and can be deleted in seven days.
This is the email I sent him: I was wondering if you would allow the use of this photo taken by you under creative common license similar to these ones:
از نظر من هیچ ایرادی نداره که عکسی که گذاشتید در ویکیپدیا باشه.ولی اگر لطف کنید و ویرایش جدید همان عکس را آنجا بگذارید بسیار سپاسگزار خواهم شد.من برای شما ویرایش جدید با کیفیت بهتر میفرستم و آدرس فتوبلاگم را هم میتوانید داشته باشید تا از آن استفاده کنید.
با احترام
کورش عنبری
Translation: I see no problem with the use this photo in wikipedia. I am sending you a high resolution version of photo, you can also use other photos on my website.
He has to explicity state what license the images are released under. Permission isn't good enough. Furthermore his website should not be conflicting this desicion (with (c)'s). The implications of the free licenses should also be explained to him. --
Catout00:11, 12 September 2006 (UTC)reply
I mentioned the type of license in my email to him and he agreed, as simple as that. The license reserves some rights and the photographer will be credited if the photo be used outside wikipedia. Your objection base on copyvio is unacceptable and the photo, as mentioned already, was take from a landscape in
Kurdistan Province, near the city of
Sanandaj. (
Marmoulak00:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC))reply
Why is the website seen as "conflicting"? It's a different image, with a size not available on the website, lacking a copyright declaration that obviously hasn't just been cropped off. They're two different things, so they don't conflict. Not to mention that a copyright tag on the website does not, in itself, contradict CC (IANACL). –
Outʀiggʀ00:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Obviously This size is not available on the website because I asked for a higher resolution version and he sent it to me. The photos on his website have that copyright tag to prevent others from taking credit for the photos. He has no problem with the photos being used if he is credited as the photographer. (
Marmoulak01:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC))reply
He has to explicitly state the license and remove the (c) notice from his website. We can't have license conflicts. Images can and will be deleted in the absence of this.
"Ir Kurdistan" is a large area (assuming it ment to referance to "Iraninan kurdistan") and a vaigue deffinition. Thats like saying "Un Florida". Is it not posible to identify the location with greater detail? Do the hills have a name?
I don't see any justification for saying that he must remove the copyright notice from his website. He does retain the copyright; releasing something under a Free licence does not mean disclaiming copyright. He is also free to release the same content under multiple licences; the licencee is free to use any they prefer.
He can't retain "copyrights". He can retain "ownership" (and he can do this conditionaly with licenses like GNU or cc rather than PD) so (c) is a license conflict. He can tag them with whatever license he agrees to. --
Catout03:51, 12 September 2006 (UTC)reply
The author can use different license for the same material, please state a law or policy to prove your claim. Nevertheless, the photo that has the (c) tag is a different version and is different from this one.
Marmoulak05:18, 12 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Both images are practicaly the same. It's just that the ones on wikipedia are slighly larger... That's not something creative enough to be considered something new so old copyright still applies. Normaly such a thing would be deleted in seven days. (c) means the image is copyrighted and is not in any way free. You can't use someone elses image on wikipedia unless it is either under {{fairuse}} or the creator follows this procedure. See
Wikipedia:Copyrights (and linked pages). Issue has been discussed to death there.
I am actualy doing you a favor, I could have simply left the image alone had I not been in awe of it and it would be deleted eventualy.
Wikipedia:Copyrights clearly states, if "you own the copyright to the material you retain copyright to your materials. You can later republish and relicense them in any way you like. However, you can never retract the GFDL license for the versions you placed here: that material will remain under GFDL forever."
I talked to the author through Yahoo Messenger and reminded him that the version that I have uploaded on wikipedia under 'cc' license can be use by anyone and will remain under this license forever. According to him this image is free as long as the author is credited. Of course the author can "republish and relicense the photo in any way he likes", ie. licensing it under (c) on his website.
Marmoulak14:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)reply
I told you, thats not good enough. Please do not argue as this is the procedure folowed on all images retrieved from the web. Your word, while I trust it, does not satisfy the procedure. Free license allows the creator or anyone to republish in any way they like. For the images to stay with a free license we need a written permision explicitly stateting the license. This should be sent to permissions@wikimedia.org. Furthermore you really want to avoid license conflicts. He can simply state that images are avalible with a free license on his website for instance on the bottom of the page (this would make your and my life easier). All this is basicaly to avoid something like
this and not to violate authors copyrights. --
Catout00:20, 13 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Just wanted to point out that this version of the image (high resolution) is not retrieved or retrievable from web, all the versions around the web are low resolution ones. Mr. Anbari sent the high-resolution version to my email. --
Marmoulak20:23, 13 September 2006 (UTC)reply
You still need to resolve this issue with permissions@wikimedia.org . My oppose is an official one. No copyvio can be a featured picture. --
Catout04:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Although this image is definitely not a copyvio and doesnt need any additional written permissions, to prevent any problems I asked Kuresh Anbari to sent an email allowing the use of this image under 'cc' to permissions@wikimedia.org and he did:
Image was and will be a copyvio until permissions@wikimedia.org says otherwise. Note that the actual copyvio process (7 day deletion) is not being observed as I am looking the other way... --
Catout05:10, 15 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Cat, there is no ambiguity in 'Kurdistan Province' as there is only one
Kurdistan Province and that is a province in Iran. As I mentioned earlier this landscape is an area near
Sanandaj. According Mr. Anbari, This an area located in the south west of
Sanandaj near the village of Kealaneh.(
Marmoulak03:43, 12 September 2006 (UTC))reply
The steps taken satisfy the copyright requirements of wikipedia. The same image in different size can have seperate licenses. And the same image can have multiple licenses. And once released the CC the author can claim anything he likes and it does not nullify the CC declaration.
HighInBC13:09, 15 September 2006 (UTC)reply
The copyright criteria wont be satisfied until permissions@wikimedia.org says so.
The same image in different size can have seperate licenses, this is true. Not because of size differences, but because the author released either one with a different license. CC would apply to both since the images are too similar (actualy identical)
You can have multiple licenses but it will cause problems. Full copyright and CC license conflict each other (The two licenses are the opposite of eachother). This will be very problematic on the long run. Every image on authors webpage is tagged with a (c). This is rather unusual for a person who can easily release images under CC yet be overprotective with (c) tags. Does the author understand that I can copy this image in any way I please for any purpose?
Cleanest way is that the author present the multiple licenses and disclaimer on his webpage. This not only verifies the authors intent but also serves as a future referance. If author is really releasing the images under CC, there shouldn't be a problem doing this.
Ok, first, when an assurance of CC declaration is made, we assume good faith on that until evidence is provided to the contrary, we don't wait for permissions@ to give us the go ahead. Also you seem to be confusing (c) with 'All rights reserved'. When you put something into the creative commons you still hold the copyright, you have just given permission for it to be used. Also, if someone releases an image to CC and then later shows a contradictory license, it is still CC. CC cannot be taken back.
HighInBC16:52, 18 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Neutral for Edit A; Oppose all others. "Edit A" is the only version that approaches reality in color saturation, though it too is a bit overdone. AFAIK, none of these images appears on any article, though. --
Moondigger17:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Oppose. The first two clearly have color problems; the third looks realistic but we don't really have any way of knowing how far off it actually is.--
ragesoss20:36, 16 September 2006 (UTC)reply
if you had actually looked at the photographer's website you would know that this photo was taken by a professional photographer and there are also several photos from the same landscape:
Strong Oppose all versions Oversaturated even in Edit A, sky/clouds are flat as though they've been heavily de-noised, weird smudging on mountains, foreground is grainy. Also there are some patches under the trees to the right (middle-ground) which look as though they've been badly cloned, although that could be my imagination. Certainly not featured-quality anyway, IMHO. --
Yummifruitbat23:01, 16 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Comment Thinking about this image then looking at others on the photographer's website, the images of this location look almost like false-colour IR photos, particularly
this one. Has anyone asked the photographer if the 'Ir' in Ir_kurdistan.jpg really did stand for Iran? --
Yummifruitbat03:08, 17 September 2006 (UTC)reply
I named the photo Ir_Kurdistan when I uploaded it, not the photographer. This photo is not an infrared photography and I dont know what you mean by false-colour but I have visited
Kurdistan Province and this picture reminds me of the landscape of the province, I clearly remember the scattered jungles and the pink colored trees. -
Marmoulak03:47, 17 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Support I think that this picture has a very good quality. It also shows a very beautiful part of Iran that may interest many Wikipedians.
Wikilo1205:44, 17 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Support The colours look a bit un-natural - it's obviously been 'enhanced', but it'll do until a better one comes along. Would it be possible to ask the photographer to get hold of the original exposure that doesn't look like the whole landscape has been
anfaled - or was that by design?
I think it is a referance to the gas attack in Iraq ruining nature as well as people which really has nothing to do with Iran. --
Catout13:23, 17 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Promoted Image:Hills south west of Sanandaj near the village of Kilaneh.jpg