This article is about a 2008 song by
Taylor Swift when she was 18. After revamping the article I believe it now is up to FA standards. I'm open to any and all suggestions to improve it further. Thanks,
Ippantekina (
talk)
06:37, 21 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Comments from ChrisTheDude
"a narrator is heartbroken on realizing the boyfriend" => "a narrator is heartbroken on realizing that her boyfriend"
"Music critics lauded "White Horse" for what they deemed a somber production and a portrayal of universal feelings from heartbreak, but some found the lyrics." - think some words have gone AWOL there..... --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
11:58, 27 April 2023 (UTC)reply
"In reviews of Fearless, music critics lauded "White Horse" for what they deemed a somber production and lyrics" Can cut "In reviews of Fearless" as that's implied. I think you could rephrase to "Music critics lauded [...] for its somber production and lyrics[...]"
Done.
"but some deemed the lyrical imagery uncreative." - I'd just simplify to some deemed the lyrics uncreative.
Done.
"In the United States, the single peaked at number 13 on the Billboard Hot 100 and number two on the Hot Country Songs chart, and was certified double platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). " - don't need the comma before "and was certified"
Done.
", and received certifications in the first two countries." - don't need the comma
Done.
"the track was produced by Swift and Chapman, and mixed by Justin Niebank at Blackbird Studios in Nashville.[6]" - don't need the comma
Done.
"According to a note published in the liner notes of Swift's 2019 album Lover, part of the lyrics to "White Horse" dated in December 2006.[7] " - I think you want "date to" not "dated in"
Done.
"co-writer Liz Rose helped her complete the song in nearly 45 minutes.[8]" - nearly isn't the right adverb and I don't think it's necessary, you can just say in 45 minutes or less than 45 minutes
Done.
"Swift said she was inspired to write "White Horse" by the moment she realized all the fantasies she had about a boy turned out completely falsified" - should be "false", not falsified
Done.
"The subject" - I think you need to mention that he's anonymous somewhere
Done.
"Whereas both "Love Story" and "White Horse" feature prominent fairy-tale lyrical imagery, Swift said it was important to regard fairy tales with "both sides": the former represented her optimistic and idealistic viewpoint on romance, and the latter her disillusionment with the said notion.[13]" - should be a semi-colon not a colon
Done.
"Swift intended to leave "White Horse" out of Fearless " - "leave off" works better than "leave out of"
Done.
"She changed the decision when the producers of Grey's Anatomy wanted to feature the song in the series.[14]" - I think it's worth a brief mention of which season and which year
Already included.
",[39] and peaked at number 111 on the Billboard Global 200.[40]" - don't need the comma
Done.
", and instead express the narrator's lost of innocence from a more reflective point-of-view.[49]" - don't need the comma
Done.
"the latter depicts a girl whom someone was unfaithful with" - I'd move "with" to before "whom"
I'd keep it as it is currently to keep the parallel between "unfaithful to" and "unfaithful with"
", on CMT,[78] and was the first video to debut at number one on the network's weekly countdown.[79][80]" - don't need any of these commas
The first comma is after a date. The second one's done.
"she donned a white evening gown as sang the song sitting on floral-patterned couch.[81]" - typo? Supposed to say "and sang" I think? If so cut out "the song"
Done.
",[87] and on a November 2010 episode of Dancing with the Stars.[88]" - no comma
Hello @
Ceranthor:, thanks for the review. Per
MOS:COMMA I added the commas after every date i.e. "on March 5, 2009," "on February 7, 2009, on CMT". In other instances i.e. "peaked at number 13 [...] and number two [...], and was certified" I think the comma adds clarity to separate the items, considering "peaked at [...] and [...] and was certified" is rather clunky. Not sure if this violates any conventions?
Ippantekina (
talk)
14:28, 24 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Hi @
Ippantekina: Not sure I follow - I don't remember making any comments about commas after dates. For the latter point, commas are not used if not a compound sentence, ie. for one of the examples I cited above, "the track was produced by Swift and Chapman, and mixed by Justin Niebank at Blackbird Studios in Nashville," the comma is incorrectly placed because "and mixed" uses the same subject. The comma would be appropriate and necessary if the sentence read "the track was produced by Swift and Chapman, and it was mixed by Justin Niebank at Blackbird Studios in Nashville." Does that help to clarify? Please let me know if not. ceranthor15:25, 24 April 2023 (UTC)reply
I would refer to Char Carlson as an audio engineer, not just as an engineer.
"Swift recalled that at a meeting set up by her agency with executive producers Shonda Rhimes and Betsy Beers..." I would say "the show's executive producers" to avoid confusion with the producers of the song.
"...she had hoped" -> "...she had hoped for"?
"...worthy;[54][55] "This is a..." Why do you use a semicolon here when you previously used colons?
Why does note a not end in punctuation?
Yes!! Mentions of the Eras Tour! Very nicely done; it is encouraging to see that these articles are being punctually updated.
Hi yes
Unlimitedlead, apologies for my delayed response and thank you for the review. I have addressed your concerns accordingly. You can have a read-through again and let me know if I've missed out anything :)
Ippantekina (
talk)
07:32, 10 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Hi
Heartfox I've amended the ref titles accordingly. Regarding SheKnows it is not the best source for more serious critical analyses/reviews, but I think it should suffice in this context (reviewing a concert). As it is part of
Penske Media Corporation (who publishes Rolling Stone and Variety) it definitely is an acceptable source.
Ippantekina (
talk)
07:36, 10 May 2023 (UTC)reply
I would suggest citing the
Edmonton Journal instead, which also notes she performed "White Horse" during the Red Tour. SheKnows wasn't part of PMC until 2018, and not all PMC publications are reliable for everything. For example, at
WP:RSPSS there is a consensus that Rolling Stone is unreliable for political coverage.
Heartfox (
talk)
16:11, 10 May 2023 (UTC)reply
I have a comment on the structure of the "Critical reception" section. It seems like the second paragraph is focused on the reviews regarding the rerecording. The last sentence is on ranking the original in lists so it does not really fit this paragraph.
Hi, I structured the section like this: first para-positive contemporary reviews, second para-positive retrospective reviews, third para-negative reviews. Hope this makes sense!
I am still unsure about the placement of the last sentence, but I do understand your point. Thank you for the explanation.
Aoba47 (
talk)
15:41, 17 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Steve Blackmon should be mentioned in the prose. He is currently only mentioned in the "Personnel" section. The same comment applies for
Jonathan Yudkin so I would double-check that all the personal are mentioned in the prose as well as the separate section.
Hey
Aoba47, thanks for your comments. I well noted them but will be delayed in my response. Please wait for a few days and I'll get back to you. Cheers,
Ippantekina (
talk)
10:01, 16 May 2023 (UTC)reply
I am glad that I could help! Great work with the article, and I support this FAC for promotion. I do have a soft spot for this song so it is nice to see how much work you have put into this article. I hope you are doing well and have a great week!
Aoba47 (
talk)
15:41, 17 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Media review - pass
Is there any direct source link for
File:Taylor Swift - White Horse.png? It only appears on fan-editable websites like Genius and RateYourMusic for me, which is a bit unusual.
Pass for media review. The Colletti image was apparently verified to be licensed under the stated license during the upload, so the dead link is not an issue for me unless someone else raises it.--NØ10:58, 18 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the media review,
MaranoFan! I was struggling with finding an appropriate archiveurl but since the file was transferred to Commons with a bot, I believe it should be fine. Unless an administrator or FAC coordinator has issue with that, I might as well remove it upon request. Cheers,
Ippantekina (
talk)
13:16, 18 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Drive by comment
In "References" most article titles are in title case, with the odd one in sentence case. Could they be standardised. (How they appear in the original work is irrelevant.) Thanks.
Gog the Mild (
talk)
20:06, 19 May 2023 (UTC)reply
This article is about a 2008 song by
Taylor Swift when she was 18. After revamping the article I believe it now is up to FA standards. I'm open to any and all suggestions to improve it further. Thanks,
Ippantekina (
talk)
06:37, 21 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Comments from ChrisTheDude
"a narrator is heartbroken on realizing the boyfriend" => "a narrator is heartbroken on realizing that her boyfriend"
"Music critics lauded "White Horse" for what they deemed a somber production and a portrayal of universal feelings from heartbreak, but some found the lyrics." - think some words have gone AWOL there..... --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
11:58, 27 April 2023 (UTC)reply
"In reviews of Fearless, music critics lauded "White Horse" for what they deemed a somber production and lyrics" Can cut "In reviews of Fearless" as that's implied. I think you could rephrase to "Music critics lauded [...] for its somber production and lyrics[...]"
Done.
"but some deemed the lyrical imagery uncreative." - I'd just simplify to some deemed the lyrics uncreative.
Done.
"In the United States, the single peaked at number 13 on the Billboard Hot 100 and number two on the Hot Country Songs chart, and was certified double platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). " - don't need the comma before "and was certified"
Done.
", and received certifications in the first two countries." - don't need the comma
Done.
"the track was produced by Swift and Chapman, and mixed by Justin Niebank at Blackbird Studios in Nashville.[6]" - don't need the comma
Done.
"According to a note published in the liner notes of Swift's 2019 album Lover, part of the lyrics to "White Horse" dated in December 2006.[7] " - I think you want "date to" not "dated in"
Done.
"co-writer Liz Rose helped her complete the song in nearly 45 minutes.[8]" - nearly isn't the right adverb and I don't think it's necessary, you can just say in 45 minutes or less than 45 minutes
Done.
"Swift said she was inspired to write "White Horse" by the moment she realized all the fantasies she had about a boy turned out completely falsified" - should be "false", not falsified
Done.
"The subject" - I think you need to mention that he's anonymous somewhere
Done.
"Whereas both "Love Story" and "White Horse" feature prominent fairy-tale lyrical imagery, Swift said it was important to regard fairy tales with "both sides": the former represented her optimistic and idealistic viewpoint on romance, and the latter her disillusionment with the said notion.[13]" - should be a semi-colon not a colon
Done.
"Swift intended to leave "White Horse" out of Fearless " - "leave off" works better than "leave out of"
Done.
"She changed the decision when the producers of Grey's Anatomy wanted to feature the song in the series.[14]" - I think it's worth a brief mention of which season and which year
Already included.
",[39] and peaked at number 111 on the Billboard Global 200.[40]" - don't need the comma
Done.
", and instead express the narrator's lost of innocence from a more reflective point-of-view.[49]" - don't need the comma
Done.
"the latter depicts a girl whom someone was unfaithful with" - I'd move "with" to before "whom"
I'd keep it as it is currently to keep the parallel between "unfaithful to" and "unfaithful with"
", on CMT,[78] and was the first video to debut at number one on the network's weekly countdown.[79][80]" - don't need any of these commas
The first comma is after a date. The second one's done.
"she donned a white evening gown as sang the song sitting on floral-patterned couch.[81]" - typo? Supposed to say "and sang" I think? If so cut out "the song"
Done.
",[87] and on a November 2010 episode of Dancing with the Stars.[88]" - no comma
Hello @
Ceranthor:, thanks for the review. Per
MOS:COMMA I added the commas after every date i.e. "on March 5, 2009," "on February 7, 2009, on CMT". In other instances i.e. "peaked at number 13 [...] and number two [...], and was certified" I think the comma adds clarity to separate the items, considering "peaked at [...] and [...] and was certified" is rather clunky. Not sure if this violates any conventions?
Ippantekina (
talk)
14:28, 24 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Hi @
Ippantekina: Not sure I follow - I don't remember making any comments about commas after dates. For the latter point, commas are not used if not a compound sentence, ie. for one of the examples I cited above, "the track was produced by Swift and Chapman, and mixed by Justin Niebank at Blackbird Studios in Nashville," the comma is incorrectly placed because "and mixed" uses the same subject. The comma would be appropriate and necessary if the sentence read "the track was produced by Swift and Chapman, and it was mixed by Justin Niebank at Blackbird Studios in Nashville." Does that help to clarify? Please let me know if not. ceranthor15:25, 24 April 2023 (UTC)reply
I would refer to Char Carlson as an audio engineer, not just as an engineer.
"Swift recalled that at a meeting set up by her agency with executive producers Shonda Rhimes and Betsy Beers..." I would say "the show's executive producers" to avoid confusion with the producers of the song.
"...she had hoped" -> "...she had hoped for"?
"...worthy;[54][55] "This is a..." Why do you use a semicolon here when you previously used colons?
Why does note a not end in punctuation?
Yes!! Mentions of the Eras Tour! Very nicely done; it is encouraging to see that these articles are being punctually updated.
Hi yes
Unlimitedlead, apologies for my delayed response and thank you for the review. I have addressed your concerns accordingly. You can have a read-through again and let me know if I've missed out anything :)
Ippantekina (
talk)
07:32, 10 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Hi
Heartfox I've amended the ref titles accordingly. Regarding SheKnows it is not the best source for more serious critical analyses/reviews, but I think it should suffice in this context (reviewing a concert). As it is part of
Penske Media Corporation (who publishes Rolling Stone and Variety) it definitely is an acceptable source.
Ippantekina (
talk)
07:36, 10 May 2023 (UTC)reply
I would suggest citing the
Edmonton Journal instead, which also notes she performed "White Horse" during the Red Tour. SheKnows wasn't part of PMC until 2018, and not all PMC publications are reliable for everything. For example, at
WP:RSPSS there is a consensus that Rolling Stone is unreliable for political coverage.
Heartfox (
talk)
16:11, 10 May 2023 (UTC)reply
I have a comment on the structure of the "Critical reception" section. It seems like the second paragraph is focused on the reviews regarding the rerecording. The last sentence is on ranking the original in lists so it does not really fit this paragraph.
Hi, I structured the section like this: first para-positive contemporary reviews, second para-positive retrospective reviews, third para-negative reviews. Hope this makes sense!
I am still unsure about the placement of the last sentence, but I do understand your point. Thank you for the explanation.
Aoba47 (
talk)
15:41, 17 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Steve Blackmon should be mentioned in the prose. He is currently only mentioned in the "Personnel" section. The same comment applies for
Jonathan Yudkin so I would double-check that all the personal are mentioned in the prose as well as the separate section.
Hey
Aoba47, thanks for your comments. I well noted them but will be delayed in my response. Please wait for a few days and I'll get back to you. Cheers,
Ippantekina (
talk)
10:01, 16 May 2023 (UTC)reply
I am glad that I could help! Great work with the article, and I support this FAC for promotion. I do have a soft spot for this song so it is nice to see how much work you have put into this article. I hope you are doing well and have a great week!
Aoba47 (
talk)
15:41, 17 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Media review - pass
Is there any direct source link for
File:Taylor Swift - White Horse.png? It only appears on fan-editable websites like Genius and RateYourMusic for me, which is a bit unusual.
Pass for media review. The Colletti image was apparently verified to be licensed under the stated license during the upload, so the dead link is not an issue for me unless someone else raises it.--NØ10:58, 18 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the media review,
MaranoFan! I was struggling with finding an appropriate archiveurl but since the file was transferred to Commons with a bot, I believe it should be fine. Unless an administrator or FAC coordinator has issue with that, I might as well remove it upon request. Cheers,
Ippantekina (
talk)
13:16, 18 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Drive by comment
In "References" most article titles are in title case, with the odd one in sentence case. Could they be standardised. (How they appear in the original work is irrelevant.) Thanks.
Gog the Mild (
talk)
20:06, 19 May 2023 (UTC)reply