The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot ( talk) 23:51, 9 May 2018 [1].
Sonic X-treme is more than a canceled video game for the Sega Saturn - it's also in many ways a cautionary tale of corporate politics and the effects they have on a company. It's a captivating story of game development, I believe, whether you are a video game fan or not. I'm nominating this article because I feel it's a great read that meets the FA standards, and since its GA has undergone a major expansion to make it as comprehensive and well-sourced as it can be. It is the first article I've worked on since returning from a three-year absence on Wikipedia, however, so I welcome all the feedback I will receive and will do my best to address any concerns that arise. Red Phoenix talk 23:03, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
Woohoo, another Sonic FAC! I'll finish reviewing this within the next day. JOE BRO 64 23:05, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
Overall, this article is in fantastic shape. I think this is an interesting story, and it's weird to think where Sonic would be if this game was released. Once my comments are addressed, I will support the promotion of this article. JOE BRO 64 12:38, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
Wonderful work with this article! Once my comments are addressed, I will be more than happy to support this for promotion. Aoba47 ( talk) 02:22, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
This is a pretty good article. Interesting subject (failures always are), thorough and well researched.
I've done some extensive copyediting, mainly to trim unnecessary words and simplify prose, but also, hopefully, to clarify in a few places. You'll want to carefully check my work to make sure I haven't accidentally removed useful information or altered meanings. (I'd like to keep going, but I'm getting major Visual Editor bugs - what the hell's going on?)
However, imo, there remain a few problems. These are significant but definitely fixable. (The quotes below are based on my copy-edited version of the article.)
According to Hector, after the release of the PlayStation, the corporate atmosphere at Sega became political, with "lots of finger-pointing". Tensions between Sega of Japan and Sega of America pervaded development.Development of what? General Sega development? Or X-Treme specifically? If it's the latter, this doesn't seem to be what this section is about. Maybe you can just delete this last sentence.
Lead programmer Don Goddard was replaced by Alon, a decision the team members disagreed about.Is there more information about what, specifically, they disagreed about?
One team, led by Senn and Alon, developed the main game for PC, with the intent of porting it to Saturn; the other team, led by STI tech director Robert Morgan and including programmer Coffin, developed the boss levels on the Saturn.This two-team thing seems critical to understanding the development, but I think, right now, it isn't clear. What is "the main game"? This could be taken to mean there were two games. One solution might be to reverse the order, like this:
One team, led by STI tech director Robert Morgan and including programmer Coffin, developed the boss levels. The other team, led by Senn and Alon, developed the other content, working on PC with the intent of porting it to Saturn.That's not perfect phrasing, I just jotted it off to illustrate the idea.
Senn and Alon's project was rejected for the second time, causing Alon to leave Sega.[9] Sega's PC division was not prepared to pay for development of this version, and may have been hesitant to approve the game based on its earlier rejection for the Saturn.[8]I don't understand this. It comes out of nowhere and I don't know what it refers to. What project? What is "this version"? The game was canned, so what were they working on? We need more information.
STI was officially disbanded in 1996 as a result of changes in management at Sega of America. According to STI's Roger Hector, the success of Sony and the PlayStation console led to corporate turmoil within Sega that resulted in STI being dissolved. Wallis has stated that STI was not actually disbanded, but rather became Sega of America's product development department while the previous department had branched off to form SegaSoft.This is confusing. You say it was disbanded, but then say Wallis said it was not disbanded. If sources disagree, we should say that explicitly, rather than making a claim in Wikipedia's voice and then quoting a source that contradicts it.
Senn, along with the community, announced intentions to recreate the game.
Sorry, that's a lot to chew on. But I think this article can get there. Popcornduff ( talk) 09:57, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
OK, I've done one final pass. (Make sure to check that I haven't broken anything.) I'm almost ready to support this. I hope only a handful of small points left to address:
Websites such as Destructoid and GamesRadar have speculated that X-treme may have inspired games such as Super Mario Galaxy (2007)- If possible it would be nice to say exactly what elements these are. Same goes for the point about Lost World - no need to go into long detail but one or two concrete examples would be nice.
Sonic X-treme was conceived for the Sega Genesis as a side-scrolling platform game like previous Sonic games. The design changed early in development due to the difficulty of adapting platform games to 3D.I don't understand the second sentence - at this point it doesn't sound like they were developing a 3D game. If it's not possible to clarify this, maybe just delete the second sentence.
Remnants of the project can be seen in the Saturn compilation game Sonic Jam.[1][2][3][4]Are four citations for this claim really necessary? Popcornduff ( talk) 15:31, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Responses submitted. Red Phoenix talk 02:55, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
Phew. That was a lot of work. Thanks for being patient, and good job on the article. I'm happy to Support this for FA. Popcornduff ( talk) 05:42, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
Coordinator comment: Unless I've missed them somewhere, we still need an image and source review. These can be requested at the top of WT:FAC. Sarastro ( talk) 21:21, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
Alon and Senn focused on building an editor that would set in place the gameplay and environment of the main levels.Does this mean they built an editor to construct the main levels? If so, I suggest "Alon and Senn built an editor to construct the main levels", or something like that - ie simple and direct.
Enemies were created as rendered sprites, while music and backgrounds were added later.I don't understand what these claims have to do with one another. "Added later"? Added later than what? The enemies? Why? What is the relevance of music and backgrounds here? Popcornduff ( talk) 15:28, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
The game featured a fisheye camera system, the "Reflex Lens", that gave players a wide-angle view,[2] making levels appear to move around Sonic.[3] Levels would rotate around a fixed center of gravity, meaning Sonic could run up walls,[4] arriving at what was previously the ceiling. Sonic was also able to enter and exit the screen as he moved.[5] For boss battles, levels were "free-roaming" and "arena-style'",[3] and rendered bosses as polygonal characters as opposed to sprites. These levels used shading, transparency and lighting effects to showcase the Saturn's technical potential.[6]
— Premise section of Sonic X-treme article on Wikipedia as of April 12, 2018
@ Nikkimaria: Have we addressed your concerns fully with the better-sourced image and more detail added with copyediting? Red Phoenix talk 13:30, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
Not having any interest in video games, I thought it might be worthwhile recusing as coord and reading/copyediting from a wholly dispassionate perspective. I tweaked a few things, so pls let me know if I got the wrong idea anywhere, but generally it read well to me and was easy to follow. I'll take a breath and then re-read without editing before I sign off on the prose, though. Cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 10:20, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
Resolve the items before I can offer support. Jackdude101 talk cont 02:41, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
@ Sarastro1: Sorry to bother you, but are we ready to go here? Red Phoenix talk 20:26, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot ( talk) 23:51, 9 May 2018 [1].
Sonic X-treme is more than a canceled video game for the Sega Saturn - it's also in many ways a cautionary tale of corporate politics and the effects they have on a company. It's a captivating story of game development, I believe, whether you are a video game fan or not. I'm nominating this article because I feel it's a great read that meets the FA standards, and since its GA has undergone a major expansion to make it as comprehensive and well-sourced as it can be. It is the first article I've worked on since returning from a three-year absence on Wikipedia, however, so I welcome all the feedback I will receive and will do my best to address any concerns that arise. Red Phoenix talk 23:03, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
Woohoo, another Sonic FAC! I'll finish reviewing this within the next day. JOE BRO 64 23:05, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
Overall, this article is in fantastic shape. I think this is an interesting story, and it's weird to think where Sonic would be if this game was released. Once my comments are addressed, I will support the promotion of this article. JOE BRO 64 12:38, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
Wonderful work with this article! Once my comments are addressed, I will be more than happy to support this for promotion. Aoba47 ( talk) 02:22, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
This is a pretty good article. Interesting subject (failures always are), thorough and well researched.
I've done some extensive copyediting, mainly to trim unnecessary words and simplify prose, but also, hopefully, to clarify in a few places. You'll want to carefully check my work to make sure I haven't accidentally removed useful information or altered meanings. (I'd like to keep going, but I'm getting major Visual Editor bugs - what the hell's going on?)
However, imo, there remain a few problems. These are significant but definitely fixable. (The quotes below are based on my copy-edited version of the article.)
According to Hector, after the release of the PlayStation, the corporate atmosphere at Sega became political, with "lots of finger-pointing". Tensions between Sega of Japan and Sega of America pervaded development.Development of what? General Sega development? Or X-Treme specifically? If it's the latter, this doesn't seem to be what this section is about. Maybe you can just delete this last sentence.
Lead programmer Don Goddard was replaced by Alon, a decision the team members disagreed about.Is there more information about what, specifically, they disagreed about?
One team, led by Senn and Alon, developed the main game for PC, with the intent of porting it to Saturn; the other team, led by STI tech director Robert Morgan and including programmer Coffin, developed the boss levels on the Saturn.This two-team thing seems critical to understanding the development, but I think, right now, it isn't clear. What is "the main game"? This could be taken to mean there were two games. One solution might be to reverse the order, like this:
One team, led by STI tech director Robert Morgan and including programmer Coffin, developed the boss levels. The other team, led by Senn and Alon, developed the other content, working on PC with the intent of porting it to Saturn.That's not perfect phrasing, I just jotted it off to illustrate the idea.
Senn and Alon's project was rejected for the second time, causing Alon to leave Sega.[9] Sega's PC division was not prepared to pay for development of this version, and may have been hesitant to approve the game based on its earlier rejection for the Saturn.[8]I don't understand this. It comes out of nowhere and I don't know what it refers to. What project? What is "this version"? The game was canned, so what were they working on? We need more information.
STI was officially disbanded in 1996 as a result of changes in management at Sega of America. According to STI's Roger Hector, the success of Sony and the PlayStation console led to corporate turmoil within Sega that resulted in STI being dissolved. Wallis has stated that STI was not actually disbanded, but rather became Sega of America's product development department while the previous department had branched off to form SegaSoft.This is confusing. You say it was disbanded, but then say Wallis said it was not disbanded. If sources disagree, we should say that explicitly, rather than making a claim in Wikipedia's voice and then quoting a source that contradicts it.
Senn, along with the community, announced intentions to recreate the game.
Sorry, that's a lot to chew on. But I think this article can get there. Popcornduff ( talk) 09:57, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
OK, I've done one final pass. (Make sure to check that I haven't broken anything.) I'm almost ready to support this. I hope only a handful of small points left to address:
Websites such as Destructoid and GamesRadar have speculated that X-treme may have inspired games such as Super Mario Galaxy (2007)- If possible it would be nice to say exactly what elements these are. Same goes for the point about Lost World - no need to go into long detail but one or two concrete examples would be nice.
Sonic X-treme was conceived for the Sega Genesis as a side-scrolling platform game like previous Sonic games. The design changed early in development due to the difficulty of adapting platform games to 3D.I don't understand the second sentence - at this point it doesn't sound like they were developing a 3D game. If it's not possible to clarify this, maybe just delete the second sentence.
Remnants of the project can be seen in the Saturn compilation game Sonic Jam.[1][2][3][4]Are four citations for this claim really necessary? Popcornduff ( talk) 15:31, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Responses submitted. Red Phoenix talk 02:55, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
Phew. That was a lot of work. Thanks for being patient, and good job on the article. I'm happy to Support this for FA. Popcornduff ( talk) 05:42, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
Coordinator comment: Unless I've missed them somewhere, we still need an image and source review. These can be requested at the top of WT:FAC. Sarastro ( talk) 21:21, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
Alon and Senn focused on building an editor that would set in place the gameplay and environment of the main levels.Does this mean they built an editor to construct the main levels? If so, I suggest "Alon and Senn built an editor to construct the main levels", or something like that - ie simple and direct.
Enemies were created as rendered sprites, while music and backgrounds were added later.I don't understand what these claims have to do with one another. "Added later"? Added later than what? The enemies? Why? What is the relevance of music and backgrounds here? Popcornduff ( talk) 15:28, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
The game featured a fisheye camera system, the "Reflex Lens", that gave players a wide-angle view,[2] making levels appear to move around Sonic.[3] Levels would rotate around a fixed center of gravity, meaning Sonic could run up walls,[4] arriving at what was previously the ceiling. Sonic was also able to enter and exit the screen as he moved.[5] For boss battles, levels were "free-roaming" and "arena-style'",[3] and rendered bosses as polygonal characters as opposed to sprites. These levels used shading, transparency and lighting effects to showcase the Saturn's technical potential.[6]
— Premise section of Sonic X-treme article on Wikipedia as of April 12, 2018
@ Nikkimaria: Have we addressed your concerns fully with the better-sourced image and more detail added with copyediting? Red Phoenix talk 13:30, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
Not having any interest in video games, I thought it might be worthwhile recusing as coord and reading/copyediting from a wholly dispassionate perspective. I tweaked a few things, so pls let me know if I got the wrong idea anywhere, but generally it read well to me and was easy to follow. I'll take a breath and then re-read without editing before I sign off on the prose, though. Cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 10:20, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
Resolve the items before I can offer support. Jackdude101 talk cont 02:41, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
@ Sarastro1: Sorry to bother you, but are we ready to go here? Red Phoenix talk 20:26, 7 May 2018 (UTC)