The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 02:53, 10 July 2008 [1].
Self-nomination: This article has significantly improved over the past few months, owing in large part to the stability proferred by an arbitration decision. It has successfully been promoted to good article and has had a peer review as well as a copyedit. I feel it is ready to be reviewed here. -- VegitaU ( talk) 18:57, 3 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Article stats:
SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 20:34, 3 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Continued comments: First, let me apologize to SandyGeorgia and to Aude. I didn't check (obviously) who the primary contributors were. Since VegitaU had successfully nominated two related articles, well...you know...
Comments - It's certainly sobering to see this here. The most important event of my lifetime definitely deserves a review from me.
Comments
Oppose - Featured articles are supposed to represent the "best quality" work on Wikipedia. I have worked quite a lot on this article and can't say it's among the best yet. Same with the Flight 77 article, which I think is quite good but not the best it can be (it can be more comprehensive, better sources used). I have worked quite a lot on the Flight 77 article over the years and want to resolve the issues there (with the little time I have) before working this one through FAC.
The main problems with the September 11, 2001 attacks article is that it is not as comprehensive as possible and does not follow summary style as well as could be done. There are also serious issues with prose, and attention to detail is needed here (MOS, sources, etc.).
I also expect FA to use the best sources available (even if that means going to the library or bookstore to get sources not available online). I'm bothered by articles that go through FA with only web-based sources while neglecting high quality print sources available for the topic. That's little less an issue here than on the Flight 77 article since I have included some such cites here, but I'm not done going through my print sources for this article.
Comprehensive and summary style issues
In working on 9/11 articles, my approach has been to get the subarticles in good shape, with the best sources used, comprehensive, and well-written. Then, with good subarticles, I think the summarized sections here would be much better quality, with the best sources, better written, and comprehensive (with summary details here and full details in the subarticle). I also like to resolve MOS and other details before coming to FAC.
Right now, I feel that many of the sections of the September 11, 2001 attacks article are superficial in detail, quality, and comprehensiveness. This reflects the fact that many of the subarticles need major work, in need of high quality sourcing, etc. The quality of the sections would be improved by following summary style well, and having good quality subarticles to summarize.
So far, I have been working on various subarticles:
Prose and other issues
Other issues relate to the quality of the prose. Again, we have lots of facts thrown together and that shows in the prose.
Here are some specific issues:
Lead section
Attacks
Other sections - I don't have time to go through them all right now, but there are issues.
In summary, I think the article falls short of the "comprehensive" FA requirement and doesn't follow "summary style" as well as is possible, has serious prose issues, and can use improvement in other areas. I am more than willing to keep working on the article and subarticle, but now is not a good time for me to work on it. Now is especially not a good time to work the article through FAC, due to my wikibreak and that my boxes of books, documentaries and other sources for the 9/11 attacks are in storage now. I expect to have a break from work/school at the end of August and early September, and willing to put in time then for this article and the subarticles. Now is simply not a good time. -- Aude ( talk) 10:19, 4 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Weak oppose
Oppose—Prose needs a spruce-up throughout. Here are random examples from the top, to start you off. Fresh eyes best.
Comment: I want to tell everyone how much I appreciate their comments, but I feel I must withdraw my nomination for this article as I see there's too much that still needs to be tweaked. I also don't want to widen a rift between Aude and myself. I would have wanted this article to be on the Main Page on 9/11, but I feel it would be better to just wait until he gets back from Wikibreak to continue here—he's made too many contributions for me to just blow him off. Thanks for the support and the constructive comments everyone. I'm not done on the FA boards yet, though. I'm still working on some other articles that I'll nominate when I feel the time is right. Thanks again. -- VegitaU ( talk) 23:25, 9 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 02:53, 10 July 2008 [1].
Self-nomination: This article has significantly improved over the past few months, owing in large part to the stability proferred by an arbitration decision. It has successfully been promoted to good article and has had a peer review as well as a copyedit. I feel it is ready to be reviewed here. -- VegitaU ( talk) 18:57, 3 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Article stats:
SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 20:34, 3 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Continued comments: First, let me apologize to SandyGeorgia and to Aude. I didn't check (obviously) who the primary contributors were. Since VegitaU had successfully nominated two related articles, well...you know...
Comments - It's certainly sobering to see this here. The most important event of my lifetime definitely deserves a review from me.
Comments
Oppose - Featured articles are supposed to represent the "best quality" work on Wikipedia. I have worked quite a lot on this article and can't say it's among the best yet. Same with the Flight 77 article, which I think is quite good but not the best it can be (it can be more comprehensive, better sources used). I have worked quite a lot on the Flight 77 article over the years and want to resolve the issues there (with the little time I have) before working this one through FAC.
The main problems with the September 11, 2001 attacks article is that it is not as comprehensive as possible and does not follow summary style as well as could be done. There are also serious issues with prose, and attention to detail is needed here (MOS, sources, etc.).
I also expect FA to use the best sources available (even if that means going to the library or bookstore to get sources not available online). I'm bothered by articles that go through FA with only web-based sources while neglecting high quality print sources available for the topic. That's little less an issue here than on the Flight 77 article since I have included some such cites here, but I'm not done going through my print sources for this article.
Comprehensive and summary style issues
In working on 9/11 articles, my approach has been to get the subarticles in good shape, with the best sources used, comprehensive, and well-written. Then, with good subarticles, I think the summarized sections here would be much better quality, with the best sources, better written, and comprehensive (with summary details here and full details in the subarticle). I also like to resolve MOS and other details before coming to FAC.
Right now, I feel that many of the sections of the September 11, 2001 attacks article are superficial in detail, quality, and comprehensiveness. This reflects the fact that many of the subarticles need major work, in need of high quality sourcing, etc. The quality of the sections would be improved by following summary style well, and having good quality subarticles to summarize.
So far, I have been working on various subarticles:
Prose and other issues
Other issues relate to the quality of the prose. Again, we have lots of facts thrown together and that shows in the prose.
Here are some specific issues:
Lead section
Attacks
Other sections - I don't have time to go through them all right now, but there are issues.
In summary, I think the article falls short of the "comprehensive" FA requirement and doesn't follow "summary style" as well as is possible, has serious prose issues, and can use improvement in other areas. I am more than willing to keep working on the article and subarticle, but now is not a good time for me to work on it. Now is especially not a good time to work the article through FAC, due to my wikibreak and that my boxes of books, documentaries and other sources for the 9/11 attacks are in storage now. I expect to have a break from work/school at the end of August and early September, and willing to put in time then for this article and the subarticles. Now is simply not a good time. -- Aude ( talk) 10:19, 4 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Weak oppose
Oppose—Prose needs a spruce-up throughout. Here are random examples from the top, to start you off. Fresh eyes best.
Comment: I want to tell everyone how much I appreciate their comments, but I feel I must withdraw my nomination for this article as I see there's too much that still needs to be tweaked. I also don't want to widen a rift between Aude and myself. I would have wanted this article to be on the Main Page on 9/11, but I feel it would be better to just wait until he gets back from Wikibreak to continue here—he's made too many contributions for me to just blow him off. Thanks for the support and the constructive comments everyone. I'm not done on the FA boards yet, though. I'm still working on some other articles that I'll nominate when I feel the time is right. Thanks again. -- VegitaU ( talk) 23:25, 9 July 2008 (UTC) reply