The article was archived by Sarastro1 via FACBot ( talk) 23:21, 11 March 2018 [1].
This article is about Sasuke Uchiha, one of the main characters from Masashi Kishimoto's manga and anime series Naruto. I am of the belief that it should be featured since it was copy-edited and received a peer review from which every comment was addressed. Right now, the article is a GA. I have done plenty of edits to this article, trying to revise the prose and organise the article better. Also, @ Tintor2: has been greatly improving the article with a lot of important edits, so this nomination is made on behalf of both of us. Thank you. Flowerpiep ( talk) 02:35, 23 January 2018 (UTC)Flowerpiep
@ Lingzhi: Thanks for the comment. Flowerpiep and me already added location to every cite book. Feel to express any other concern. Tintor2 ( talk) 22:43, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
( ←) US = "San Francisco, California"; Japan = "Tokyo, Japan". Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 16:32, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
Image review
Great work with the article; once my comments are addressed, I will be more than happy to support this for promotion. If possible, I would greatly appreciate any help with my current FAC ( Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/All Souls (TV series)/archive1)? Either way, have a great day and/or night! Aoba47 ( talk) 23:13, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
@ Aoba47: Thanks for the comments. I tried addressing him. Will check your nomination tomorrow. It's a bit late here. Tintor2 ( talk) 00:33, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
Some prose issues:
Down to the Description section so far. Parsecboy ( talk) 21:43, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for giving input on my FAC, I will post my comments soon. AmericanAir88 ( talk) 22:09, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
Issues:
This is a fantastic article, once these issues are addressed, I will totally give this a support. AmericanAir88 ( talk) 01:30, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
@ Tintor2: Looks Good - Support. AmericanAir88 ( talk) 21:39, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
I'll give my thoughts tomorrow, but I took a quick look at the article, and so far so good. Narutolovehinata5 t c csd new 14:48, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
I'm sorry for the delay (real-life stuff happened), but I just did a quick source review. All of the sources meet our guidelines (i.e. no self-published sources and the like), and are either live or are archived. No problems were detected, and the article is adequately sourced. This is a pass for the source review. Narutolovehinata5 t c csd new 23:24, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
Extended content
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@ Alexandra IDV: Removed the amazon links. The Viz Media are primary sources so I guess they are okay. Any other type of merchadise is necessary? Tintor2 ( talk) 20:17, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
@ Alexandra IDV: @ JDC808: I tried trimming the part II section furthermore since that's where there is more text. Hope this helps. Tintor2 ( talk) 16:29, 16 February 2018 (UTC) @ Flowerpiep: calling the other nominator too. Tintor2 ( talk) 17:08, 16 February 2018 (UTC) @ Alexandra IDV: @ JDC808: Decided to revise some parts from "In Naruto" to start with his first introduction. Tintor2 ( talk) 23:23, 16 February 2018 (UTC) @ Alexandra IDV: @ JDC808: Flowerpiep gave the prose some copyedit. Is still enough? The two of us are wondering if the subheadings "In Part I" and "In Part II" are necessary. Tintor2 ( talk) 13:20, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
@ Alexandra IDV: Added two action figures represented in the news, with one of them promoting a video game. Tintor2 ( talk) 16:37, 23 February 2018 (UTC) @ Alexandra IDV: Removed all Amazon links, kept the Viz (primary sources) and added some notable figures covered by reliable sources most notably one specifically made to promote a video game. Hope this helps Tintor2 ( talk) 16:52, 23 February 2018 (UTC) @ Alexandra IDV: @ Flowerpiep: Added another figure that felt quite notable since it appealed to a writer from Aint It Cool News. Tintor2 ( talk) 21:56, 23 February 2018 (UTC) |
I read through the entire article, and here are the issues that I had.
-- JDC808 ♫ 05:54, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
Coordinator comment: This has had quite a bit of review, but I'd feel a little happier with a little more review of Criterion 1a. It has been addressed above, but I think we could look a little closer to see if it meets 1a. I think we also need a little more source review. As far as I can tell, the source review above did not look at the formatting of sources, or consider their reliability in any depth. Finally, I notice that we are using "however" rather a lot (see WP:HOWEVER) and could look at reducing its usage. I wonder if Mike Christie (sorry to keep pinging you), Laser brain or HJ Mitchell are available to have a look (sorry, you are in demand today!) Sarastro ( talk) 12:14, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
@ Sarastro1: Is there any source that bugs you? I tried to make sure all of them were written by known writers as well as reliable. For example, Anime Now was a site related to Anime News Network, LarpEditores is an Argentinian publisher of the Naruto manga whose translator used to work at Editorial Ivrea. I'm not sure if Crunchyroll is allowed but the writer of that article also works at Ain't it Cool News. All the creation information is from guidebooks, magazines, artbooks among others. Tintor2 ( talk) 15:42, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
Oppose. I looked at the lead and reception sections, rather than reading the whole article. The lead is not in bad shape; just one comment there:
Sasuke's design challenged Kishimoto as he drew the manga since he found it demanding to create suitable looks for him. On the other hand, the author has grown to enjoy drawing him despite the difficulty of this task.Wordy and not very fluent; these sentences could be shortened and joined, though I'm not sure the second point is really worth including in the lead.
The reception section, however, needs substantial work. See WP:RECEPTION for some suggestions; I can see some thematic organization here, but the "A said B" problem remains in many places, and there is little to maintain a reader's interest in each paragraph. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 16:21, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
@ Mike Christie: @ Flowerpiep: I did a major rewrite similar to the ones I often see in video games. What do you think? Tintor2 ( talk) 17:07, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
Here are a couple of specifics, again just from the critical response section, where the prose could be improved.
remarked to resemble: stilted.
was also a subject of praise, being highly popular among fans: implies causation; this is critical response, so you might just cut the last five words, but if not it should be "and was", not "being".
Following the post-Naruto media: what does "following" mean here? If it just means "since", and this paragraph is about the critical reception of the character in later media, the sentence should be rephrased to active voice.
Reviewing Boruto: Naruto the Movie, writers enjoyed Sasuke's fight scenes against the antagonists, most notably his team-up with Naruto, considering them the best parts of the film-> "Writers considered Sasuke's fight scenes in Boruto: Naruto the Movie, and in particular his team-up with Naruto, to be the best parts of the film". A little shorter, and a more direct sentence structure.
-- Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 11:09, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
Mike Christie asked me to take a look at the Reception section.
Sorry, but I have to Oppose this nomination based on this section. It's very dense and covers lots of stuff I struggle to see the relevance of. Examples:
Nippon Telegraph and Telephone customers voted him their fifth-favorite black-haired male anime character in 2014"Fifth favourite black-haired male character? Is that notable? It sounds incredibly arbitrary.
seventh-best Naruto character"Seventh best" isn't impressive.
In developing the fighting game Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 2, CyberConnect2 CEO Hiroshi Matsuyama said that his favorite fight was the one between Sasuke and Itachi.Is this CEO's opinion on the best fight in one video game notable?
In a Mezamashi TV interview, Kishimoto was questioned by Nogizaka46 member Rina Ikoma while she was cosplaying as Sasuke; Kishimoto complimented Ikoma's cosplay.This is mystifying.
Another Bandai figure is a limited adult version of Sasuke from the Naruto finale and the Boruto franchise, which impressed Scott Green, a writer of Ain't It Cool News and Crunchyroll, due to its detailed and carefully defined facial featuresAgain, this sounds like an incredible reach.
I could go on. Hopefully you get the picture: it's a torrent of banal information and not much fun to read. You can strip most of these out and that will make other problems, such as repetition or whatever, much easier to fix.
The prose itself isn't awful but there are still opportunities to simplify, and there's stuff that makes no sense to the reader unfamiliar with the subject matter:
Charapedia ranked Sasuke and Naruto's rivalry as the best one from anime media- > "... as the best in anime"
Sasuke-related merchandise has been released, including...-> "Sasuke merchandise includes..."
he wondered if readers considered Sasuke a more relatable character after the defeat of his worldview by Naruto'sno idea what "the defeat of his worldview" means.
The Eastern fan, uchiwa, is said to be related to Sasuke's origins and his relationship with Naruto.This is totally uninformative. Related how? How do you relate a fan to a character's origins and relationship?
Sorry for the critical response, but... I think you probably need to remove at least half of the Reception section. Take a step back, ask yourself what's actually valuable for the reader (especially one unfamiliar with the subject), and get cutting. Popcornduff ( talk) 05:06, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
Sasuke Uchiha was not included in Masashi Kishimoto's original concept of the Naruto manga.Who's Masahi Kishimoto? What's this Naruto manga? We should begin with a brief summary (one or two sentences only) that better sets the out concepts involved in the article - what Naruto is and who made it.
Kishimoto wanted Sasuke's role in the series to be further explored.and
Sasuke was going to be drawn as a more attractive person, but the idea was scrapped.
Kishimoto's references to Japanese mythology in Naruto were noted to add layers to the storyisn't.
In a Mezamashi TV interview, Kishimoto was questioned by Nogizaka46 member Rina Ikoma while she was cosplaying as Sasuke.It's not clear what information this sentence is trying to convey. Is it that Kishimoto questioned her? (Is "question" the right verb here? It implies something more like interrogation - wouldn't "interview" be better?) Is the point that a famous person cosplayed as Sasuke? (I assume the person is famous - it isn't explained who Rina Ikoma is or what Nogizaka46 is.) Something like
Rina Ikoma, a member of the idol group Nogizaka46, cosplayed as Sasuke while interviewing Kishimoto about the serieswould be much easier to understand - but I still don't see what this says about the character's popularity. Do you see what I'm saying?
Although I do believe that the Reception section is not in thr best shape (I haven't read the character storylines because of my unfamiliarity with the subject), I think it can get there without this having to be archived. Let me know if you have any concerns about my comments. Vedant Talk 10:24, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
Agree that the reception section needs to be completely rewritten. What does a sentence like "Manga, anime, and video game publications and related media have praised and criticized Sasuke." even mean? "A number of writers enjoyed the character's fights but criticized his dark personality". A number? What was the number? Zero is a number. We hear again about the dark personality further down. Four howevers? As it stands I also oppose. -- John ( talk) 15:26, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
Closing comment: We have support for this article but there are three reasoned opposes as well. Therefore, as there is no consensus to promote, I think it is better to archive this FAC now. I would recommend that the nominator works with those who have opposed to address the issues away from FAC and renominate it when this has been worked on, and after the usual two-week waiting period. Sarastro ( talk) 23:21, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
The article was archived by Sarastro1 via FACBot ( talk) 23:21, 11 March 2018 [1].
This article is about Sasuke Uchiha, one of the main characters from Masashi Kishimoto's manga and anime series Naruto. I am of the belief that it should be featured since it was copy-edited and received a peer review from which every comment was addressed. Right now, the article is a GA. I have done plenty of edits to this article, trying to revise the prose and organise the article better. Also, @ Tintor2: has been greatly improving the article with a lot of important edits, so this nomination is made on behalf of both of us. Thank you. Flowerpiep ( talk) 02:35, 23 January 2018 (UTC)Flowerpiep
@ Lingzhi: Thanks for the comment. Flowerpiep and me already added location to every cite book. Feel to express any other concern. Tintor2 ( talk) 22:43, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
( ←) US = "San Francisco, California"; Japan = "Tokyo, Japan". Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 16:32, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
Image review
Great work with the article; once my comments are addressed, I will be more than happy to support this for promotion. If possible, I would greatly appreciate any help with my current FAC ( Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/All Souls (TV series)/archive1)? Either way, have a great day and/or night! Aoba47 ( talk) 23:13, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
@ Aoba47: Thanks for the comments. I tried addressing him. Will check your nomination tomorrow. It's a bit late here. Tintor2 ( talk) 00:33, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
Some prose issues:
Down to the Description section so far. Parsecboy ( talk) 21:43, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for giving input on my FAC, I will post my comments soon. AmericanAir88 ( talk) 22:09, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
Issues:
This is a fantastic article, once these issues are addressed, I will totally give this a support. AmericanAir88 ( talk) 01:30, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
@ Tintor2: Looks Good - Support. AmericanAir88 ( talk) 21:39, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
I'll give my thoughts tomorrow, but I took a quick look at the article, and so far so good. Narutolovehinata5 t c csd new 14:48, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
I'm sorry for the delay (real-life stuff happened), but I just did a quick source review. All of the sources meet our guidelines (i.e. no self-published sources and the like), and are either live or are archived. No problems were detected, and the article is adequately sourced. This is a pass for the source review. Narutolovehinata5 t c csd new 23:24, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
Extended content
|
---|
@ Alexandra IDV: Removed the amazon links. The Viz Media are primary sources so I guess they are okay. Any other type of merchadise is necessary? Tintor2 ( talk) 20:17, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
@ Alexandra IDV: @ JDC808: I tried trimming the part II section furthermore since that's where there is more text. Hope this helps. Tintor2 ( talk) 16:29, 16 February 2018 (UTC) @ Flowerpiep: calling the other nominator too. Tintor2 ( talk) 17:08, 16 February 2018 (UTC) @ Alexandra IDV: @ JDC808: Decided to revise some parts from "In Naruto" to start with his first introduction. Tintor2 ( talk) 23:23, 16 February 2018 (UTC) @ Alexandra IDV: @ JDC808: Flowerpiep gave the prose some copyedit. Is still enough? The two of us are wondering if the subheadings "In Part I" and "In Part II" are necessary. Tintor2 ( talk) 13:20, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
@ Alexandra IDV: Added two action figures represented in the news, with one of them promoting a video game. Tintor2 ( talk) 16:37, 23 February 2018 (UTC) @ Alexandra IDV: Removed all Amazon links, kept the Viz (primary sources) and added some notable figures covered by reliable sources most notably one specifically made to promote a video game. Hope this helps Tintor2 ( talk) 16:52, 23 February 2018 (UTC) @ Alexandra IDV: @ Flowerpiep: Added another figure that felt quite notable since it appealed to a writer from Aint It Cool News. Tintor2 ( talk) 21:56, 23 February 2018 (UTC) |
I read through the entire article, and here are the issues that I had.
-- JDC808 ♫ 05:54, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
Coordinator comment: This has had quite a bit of review, but I'd feel a little happier with a little more review of Criterion 1a. It has been addressed above, but I think we could look a little closer to see if it meets 1a. I think we also need a little more source review. As far as I can tell, the source review above did not look at the formatting of sources, or consider their reliability in any depth. Finally, I notice that we are using "however" rather a lot (see WP:HOWEVER) and could look at reducing its usage. I wonder if Mike Christie (sorry to keep pinging you), Laser brain or HJ Mitchell are available to have a look (sorry, you are in demand today!) Sarastro ( talk) 12:14, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
@ Sarastro1: Is there any source that bugs you? I tried to make sure all of them were written by known writers as well as reliable. For example, Anime Now was a site related to Anime News Network, LarpEditores is an Argentinian publisher of the Naruto manga whose translator used to work at Editorial Ivrea. I'm not sure if Crunchyroll is allowed but the writer of that article also works at Ain't it Cool News. All the creation information is from guidebooks, magazines, artbooks among others. Tintor2 ( talk) 15:42, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
Oppose. I looked at the lead and reception sections, rather than reading the whole article. The lead is not in bad shape; just one comment there:
Sasuke's design challenged Kishimoto as he drew the manga since he found it demanding to create suitable looks for him. On the other hand, the author has grown to enjoy drawing him despite the difficulty of this task.Wordy and not very fluent; these sentences could be shortened and joined, though I'm not sure the second point is really worth including in the lead.
The reception section, however, needs substantial work. See WP:RECEPTION for some suggestions; I can see some thematic organization here, but the "A said B" problem remains in many places, and there is little to maintain a reader's interest in each paragraph. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 16:21, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
@ Mike Christie: @ Flowerpiep: I did a major rewrite similar to the ones I often see in video games. What do you think? Tintor2 ( talk) 17:07, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
Here are a couple of specifics, again just from the critical response section, where the prose could be improved.
remarked to resemble: stilted.
was also a subject of praise, being highly popular among fans: implies causation; this is critical response, so you might just cut the last five words, but if not it should be "and was", not "being".
Following the post-Naruto media: what does "following" mean here? If it just means "since", and this paragraph is about the critical reception of the character in later media, the sentence should be rephrased to active voice.
Reviewing Boruto: Naruto the Movie, writers enjoyed Sasuke's fight scenes against the antagonists, most notably his team-up with Naruto, considering them the best parts of the film-> "Writers considered Sasuke's fight scenes in Boruto: Naruto the Movie, and in particular his team-up with Naruto, to be the best parts of the film". A little shorter, and a more direct sentence structure.
-- Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 11:09, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
Mike Christie asked me to take a look at the Reception section.
Sorry, but I have to Oppose this nomination based on this section. It's very dense and covers lots of stuff I struggle to see the relevance of. Examples:
Nippon Telegraph and Telephone customers voted him their fifth-favorite black-haired male anime character in 2014"Fifth favourite black-haired male character? Is that notable? It sounds incredibly arbitrary.
seventh-best Naruto character"Seventh best" isn't impressive.
In developing the fighting game Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 2, CyberConnect2 CEO Hiroshi Matsuyama said that his favorite fight was the one between Sasuke and Itachi.Is this CEO's opinion on the best fight in one video game notable?
In a Mezamashi TV interview, Kishimoto was questioned by Nogizaka46 member Rina Ikoma while she was cosplaying as Sasuke; Kishimoto complimented Ikoma's cosplay.This is mystifying.
Another Bandai figure is a limited adult version of Sasuke from the Naruto finale and the Boruto franchise, which impressed Scott Green, a writer of Ain't It Cool News and Crunchyroll, due to its detailed and carefully defined facial featuresAgain, this sounds like an incredible reach.
I could go on. Hopefully you get the picture: it's a torrent of banal information and not much fun to read. You can strip most of these out and that will make other problems, such as repetition or whatever, much easier to fix.
The prose itself isn't awful but there are still opportunities to simplify, and there's stuff that makes no sense to the reader unfamiliar with the subject matter:
Charapedia ranked Sasuke and Naruto's rivalry as the best one from anime media- > "... as the best in anime"
Sasuke-related merchandise has been released, including...-> "Sasuke merchandise includes..."
he wondered if readers considered Sasuke a more relatable character after the defeat of his worldview by Naruto'sno idea what "the defeat of his worldview" means.
The Eastern fan, uchiwa, is said to be related to Sasuke's origins and his relationship with Naruto.This is totally uninformative. Related how? How do you relate a fan to a character's origins and relationship?
Sorry for the critical response, but... I think you probably need to remove at least half of the Reception section. Take a step back, ask yourself what's actually valuable for the reader (especially one unfamiliar with the subject), and get cutting. Popcornduff ( talk) 05:06, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
Sasuke Uchiha was not included in Masashi Kishimoto's original concept of the Naruto manga.Who's Masahi Kishimoto? What's this Naruto manga? We should begin with a brief summary (one or two sentences only) that better sets the out concepts involved in the article - what Naruto is and who made it.
Kishimoto wanted Sasuke's role in the series to be further explored.and
Sasuke was going to be drawn as a more attractive person, but the idea was scrapped.
Kishimoto's references to Japanese mythology in Naruto were noted to add layers to the storyisn't.
In a Mezamashi TV interview, Kishimoto was questioned by Nogizaka46 member Rina Ikoma while she was cosplaying as Sasuke.It's not clear what information this sentence is trying to convey. Is it that Kishimoto questioned her? (Is "question" the right verb here? It implies something more like interrogation - wouldn't "interview" be better?) Is the point that a famous person cosplayed as Sasuke? (I assume the person is famous - it isn't explained who Rina Ikoma is or what Nogizaka46 is.) Something like
Rina Ikoma, a member of the idol group Nogizaka46, cosplayed as Sasuke while interviewing Kishimoto about the serieswould be much easier to understand - but I still don't see what this says about the character's popularity. Do you see what I'm saying?
Although I do believe that the Reception section is not in thr best shape (I haven't read the character storylines because of my unfamiliarity with the subject), I think it can get there without this having to be archived. Let me know if you have any concerns about my comments. Vedant Talk 10:24, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
Agree that the reception section needs to be completely rewritten. What does a sentence like "Manga, anime, and video game publications and related media have praised and criticized Sasuke." even mean? "A number of writers enjoyed the character's fights but criticized his dark personality". A number? What was the number? Zero is a number. We hear again about the dark personality further down. Four howevers? As it stands I also oppose. -- John ( talk) 15:26, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
Closing comment: We have support for this article but there are three reasoned opposes as well. Therefore, as there is no consensus to promote, I think it is better to archive this FAC now. I would recommend that the nominator works with those who have opposed to address the issues away from FAC and renominate it when this has been worked on, and after the usual two-week waiting period. Sarastro ( talk) 23:21, 11 March 2018 (UTC)