- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot ( talk) 19 August 2019 [1].
HMS Bulwark (1899)
- Nominator(s): Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 13:45, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
Bulwark was British pre-dreadnought battleship built during the 1890s. She served as a flagship for the first decade of her existence, first for the Mediterranean Fleet and then for the Channel Fleet. She was reduced to reserve in 1910, but continued to participate in the annual fleet manoeuvres. When the First World War began in 1914, she joined other pre-dreadnoughts in escorting the British Expeditionary Fleet as it sailed from Britain to France. Bulwark blew up in November with the loss of almost all of her crew, the subsequent investigation blamed the ignition of cordite charges that had been placed next to a boiler-room bulkhead. She exploded with such force that there was very little to be salvaged. The article passed a MilHist A-class review earlier this month. I'd like reviewers to look for any remaining bits of AmEng, unexplained or unlinked jargon and any infelicitous prose.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 13:45, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
CommentsSupport by PM
Having already reviewed this at Milhist ACR, I have only a few comments:
- suggest dropping (BS) from the lead, and just introducing it in the body if it is used again
- say where she exploded in the lead
- the infobox gives flagship crew numbers in 1904, but this detail isn't really covered in the body, per se
- suggest "including landings at Lemnos and Nauplia" if that is what is meant?
- I'm not sure and don't have access to the Times. I've queried the editor who added that bit and hopefully he will be able to look it up and see if we can get a better sense of exactly what was meant. Though I suspect it means port visits.
- suggest moving fleet review link to first mention in 1903
- Good catch.
- suggest "where Domville hauled his flag down again when he completed his posting."
- It ties into him hoisting his flag aboard in the previous paragraph.
- for Lords of the Admiralty link List of Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty
- "and the others had been removed."? Does this mean all the 3-pounders had been removed? If so, just state that?
- No, she started with six, two were repositioned and the others were removed.
That's all I have. Peacemaker67 ( click to talk to me) 10:14, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for your thorough review. See if my changes are satisfactory.--
Sturmvogel 66 (
talk)
19:49, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
- No worries. It would be good to clarify about the landings, but supporting regardless. Peacemaker67 ( click to talk to me) 02:21, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for your thorough review. See if my changes are satisfactory.--
Sturmvogel 66 (
talk)
19:49, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Source review
- All footnotes are formatted uniformly
- Sources used are high-quality, reliable, and comprehensive.
- No spot checks done, but the nominator has a well-established track record. Parsecboy ( talk) 20:18, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
- For
this, would David Anstiss be the author, and would Geograph Britain and Ireland or Geograph be the publisher?
Kees08
(Talk)
00:54, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
- I went with geograph.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 20:14, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Support Comments
- What's Silverstone on about with the namesake? I was under the impression that the name Bulwark was a reference to the fact that the navy was the "bulwark" of the country.
British Warship Names might be able to clarify this, though I won't be able to get it until next week (dunno if there are any libraries near you that have a copy).
- You're probably right, but I went with what I had. I've ordered the book from ILL.
- Would Domville's title have been "Commander-in-Chief of the Mediterranean Fleet" or "Commander-in-Chief, Mediterranean Fleet"?
- The latter would be the more formal title.
- "She left Plymouth five days later" - this seems a little jarring, since we're in a new paragraph in a new section from the date it's referencing
- That para is all about her movement and activities, which seemed a bit of a disconnect from her commissioning.
- "fleet review at Spithead conducted by the List of Lords of the Admiralty" - is "List of Lords of the Admiralty" right? That sounds like it's the title of a wiki list. Also, wouldn't it be "conducted for the Lords"?
- No, I screwed up the link. Ball specifically says "by" the Lords, so they were doing the reviewing.
- " After covering the safe transportation of the British Expeditionary Force to France in August, the 5th BS remained in Portsmouth until 4 September, when they returned to Portland where they stayed through October aside from exercises." - this reads awkwardly to me, especially the "when...where..." bit. You might split it after they returned to Portsmouth, and then rework the rest as "They remained there through October, only going to sea for exercises" or something. (ping me when you're done - I'm still
hacking away at translating Nottelmann)
Parsecboy (
talk)
15:20, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Always trying to cram a quart into a pint pot, I am. Couldn't use remain in the new second sentence as it's used in the preceding sentence. See how it reads now.@
Parsecboy: Were the back issues of WI, which I trust you've received by now, helpful for that?--
Sturmvogel 66 (
talk)
18:40, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Works for me, happy to support. And no, I haven't gotten around to ordering those yet - I've just been translating Nottelmann's book.
Parsecboy (
talk)
19:07, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- The idea was that their series on the development of the German BB designs might negate any need to actually translate Nottleman, but...--
Sturmvogel 66 (
talk)
19:09, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Yeah, I know, but as you are aware, I'm slow to get off my duff (and I already had the book, so I figured I'd just suck it up and do the translating ;) Parsecboy ( talk) 19:59, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- The idea was that their series on the development of the German BB designs might negate any need to actually translate Nottleman, but...--
Sturmvogel 66 (
talk)
19:09, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Works for me, happy to support. And no, I haven't gotten around to ordering those yet - I've just been translating Nottelmann's book.
Parsecboy (
talk)
19:07, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Always trying to cram a quart into a pint pot, I am. Couldn't use remain in the new second sentence as it's used in the preceding sentence. See how it reads now.@
Parsecboy: Were the back issues of WI, which I trust you've received by now, helpful for that?--
Sturmvogel 66 (
talk)
18:40, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
Image review
Coming soon. Kees08 (Talk) 00:55, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
- Looks like
this is CC-BY-SA, which is a compatible license, any reason not to use that image towards the end of the article?
- Added.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 20:11, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
-
File:HMS Bulwark (1899).jpg - the file page says before 1914, but the source looks like it says 1914. You could use the
direct link instead of the link using the search term, as well.
- Ummm it says "before 1914 /First World War"-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 20:32, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
-
File:Formidable class battleship diagrams Brasseys 1906.jpg - what does Plate 3 mean, is there a way to turn that into a page number? Not sure how to find it on the archive.org source.
- Back in olden times, when you couldn't print high-quality photographs on ordinary paper, a signature(s) of special paper would be inserted into the book block and used to reproduce photos. Because they were printed separately they weren't numbered in the ordinary sequence and might be numbered in their own sequence like this one was. Sometimes, if you get lucky, you might find a reference in the table of contents to something like (photographic section between pages 100 and 101).-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 20:32, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
-
File:Bulwark Q 38376.jpg - This image was created and released by the Imperial War Museum on the IWM Non Commercial Licence. - if it is a non-commercial license we would not be able to use it, but should the licensing of this just be the same as
File:HMS Bulwark (1899).jpg?
- Good catch. Yes it should since it's also a H. Symonds & Co. photograph-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 20:32, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
- File:HMS Bulwark explodes.jpg - description on Commons could be formatted slightly better, if you'd like to.
.jpg){kind=link}
Should probably be all. Thanks. Kees08 (Talk) 06:59, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for looking these over.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 20:32, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Coordinator notes
I've added this to the Urgents list but it will need to be archived soon if it does not receive some additional reviews. -- Laser brain (talk) 11:43, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- I'll add a full review to my source review today.
Parsecboy (
talk)
13:36, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Looking forward to it.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 13:58, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
Support by Gog the Mild
"Ask me for anything but time."
- "served with the Channel and Home Fleets from 1907 to 1912, usually as a flagship. From 1910 to 1914, she was in reserve" A casual read would suggest that she was both in service and in reserve during at least much of 1910-1912.
- "From 1910 to 1914, she was in reserve. After a refit in 1912, she was assigned to the 5th Battle Squadron of the Home Fleet." Similarly 1912-1914.
- Simplified all this, see how it reads now.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 23:48, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- "her remains were designated as a controlled site" Is "as" necessary?
- "Note 1: "18 cwt" → '12 cwt'.
- Good catch.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 23:48, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- "for combined manoeuvres, landing at Lemnos and Nauplia" Picky, picky, but would 'stopping' or similar be a better word than "landing"?
- "Captain Arthur Leveson temporarily assumed command on 3 January" Would the year be appropriate
- Given in the preceding sentence.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 23:48, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- "4 nmi" IMO this should be given in full. I don't think that it is an abbreviation which many readers can be expected to have come across.
- "ruled out external explosions like a torpedo or a mine" Suggest "like" → 'such as'.
- "30 ft (9.1 m)" Optional: the conversion seems spuriously accurate to me.
That is all I have. Another sound piece of work. Gog the Mild ( talk) 20:11, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for your prompt review.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 23:48, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- And in turn for your rapid response. Leaving aside images and sources this meets all of the criteria, so happy to support. Gog the Mild ( talk) 11:44, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
Comments by CPA-5
- on the 10th, then proceeded to Malta Unlink Malta.
- The ship visited Trondheim, Norway, on 18 June Unlink Norway.
- Captain Robert Falcon Scott of Antarctic fame Unlink Antarctic.
- You know how I feel about geography links.
- Link "normal" in the infobox.
- Can't, every navy defined normal load differently.
That's anything from me. Not much but it can help you. Cheers. CPA-5 ( talk) 22:07, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
- Not to worry, I appreciate you taking time to look it over.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 22:59, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{ featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. -- Laser brain (talk) 00:34, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot ( talk) 19 August 2019 [1].
HMS Bulwark (1899)
- Nominator(s): Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 13:45, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
Bulwark was British pre-dreadnought battleship built during the 1890s. She served as a flagship for the first decade of her existence, first for the Mediterranean Fleet and then for the Channel Fleet. She was reduced to reserve in 1910, but continued to participate in the annual fleet manoeuvres. When the First World War began in 1914, she joined other pre-dreadnoughts in escorting the British Expeditionary Fleet as it sailed from Britain to France. Bulwark blew up in November with the loss of almost all of her crew, the subsequent investigation blamed the ignition of cordite charges that had been placed next to a boiler-room bulkhead. She exploded with such force that there was very little to be salvaged. The article passed a MilHist A-class review earlier this month. I'd like reviewers to look for any remaining bits of AmEng, unexplained or unlinked jargon and any infelicitous prose.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 13:45, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
CommentsSupport by PM
Having already reviewed this at Milhist ACR, I have only a few comments:
- suggest dropping (BS) from the lead, and just introducing it in the body if it is used again
- say where she exploded in the lead
- the infobox gives flagship crew numbers in 1904, but this detail isn't really covered in the body, per se
- suggest "including landings at Lemnos and Nauplia" if that is what is meant?
- I'm not sure and don't have access to the Times. I've queried the editor who added that bit and hopefully he will be able to look it up and see if we can get a better sense of exactly what was meant. Though I suspect it means port visits.
- suggest moving fleet review link to first mention in 1903
- Good catch.
- suggest "where Domville hauled his flag down again when he completed his posting."
- It ties into him hoisting his flag aboard in the previous paragraph.
- for Lords of the Admiralty link List of Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty
- "and the others had been removed."? Does this mean all the 3-pounders had been removed? If so, just state that?
- No, she started with six, two were repositioned and the others were removed.
That's all I have. Peacemaker67 ( click to talk to me) 10:14, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for your thorough review. See if my changes are satisfactory.--
Sturmvogel 66 (
talk)
19:49, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
- No worries. It would be good to clarify about the landings, but supporting regardless. Peacemaker67 ( click to talk to me) 02:21, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for your thorough review. See if my changes are satisfactory.--
Sturmvogel 66 (
talk)
19:49, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Source review
- All footnotes are formatted uniformly
- Sources used are high-quality, reliable, and comprehensive.
- No spot checks done, but the nominator has a well-established track record. Parsecboy ( talk) 20:18, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
- For
this, would David Anstiss be the author, and would Geograph Britain and Ireland or Geograph be the publisher?
Kees08
(Talk)
00:54, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
- I went with geograph.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 20:14, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Support Comments
- What's Silverstone on about with the namesake? I was under the impression that the name Bulwark was a reference to the fact that the navy was the "bulwark" of the country.
British Warship Names might be able to clarify this, though I won't be able to get it until next week (dunno if there are any libraries near you that have a copy).
- You're probably right, but I went with what I had. I've ordered the book from ILL.
- Would Domville's title have been "Commander-in-Chief of the Mediterranean Fleet" or "Commander-in-Chief, Mediterranean Fleet"?
- The latter would be the more formal title.
- "She left Plymouth five days later" - this seems a little jarring, since we're in a new paragraph in a new section from the date it's referencing
- That para is all about her movement and activities, which seemed a bit of a disconnect from her commissioning.
- "fleet review at Spithead conducted by the List of Lords of the Admiralty" - is "List of Lords of the Admiralty" right? That sounds like it's the title of a wiki list. Also, wouldn't it be "conducted for the Lords"?
- No, I screwed up the link. Ball specifically says "by" the Lords, so they were doing the reviewing.
- " After covering the safe transportation of the British Expeditionary Force to France in August, the 5th BS remained in Portsmouth until 4 September, when they returned to Portland where they stayed through October aside from exercises." - this reads awkwardly to me, especially the "when...where..." bit. You might split it after they returned to Portsmouth, and then rework the rest as "They remained there through October, only going to sea for exercises" or something. (ping me when you're done - I'm still
hacking away at translating Nottelmann)
Parsecboy (
talk)
15:20, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Always trying to cram a quart into a pint pot, I am. Couldn't use remain in the new second sentence as it's used in the preceding sentence. See how it reads now.@
Parsecboy: Were the back issues of WI, which I trust you've received by now, helpful for that?--
Sturmvogel 66 (
talk)
18:40, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Works for me, happy to support. And no, I haven't gotten around to ordering those yet - I've just been translating Nottelmann's book.
Parsecboy (
talk)
19:07, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- The idea was that their series on the development of the German BB designs might negate any need to actually translate Nottleman, but...--
Sturmvogel 66 (
talk)
19:09, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Yeah, I know, but as you are aware, I'm slow to get off my duff (and I already had the book, so I figured I'd just suck it up and do the translating ;) Parsecboy ( talk) 19:59, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- The idea was that their series on the development of the German BB designs might negate any need to actually translate Nottleman, but...--
Sturmvogel 66 (
talk)
19:09, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Works for me, happy to support. And no, I haven't gotten around to ordering those yet - I've just been translating Nottelmann's book.
Parsecboy (
talk)
19:07, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Always trying to cram a quart into a pint pot, I am. Couldn't use remain in the new second sentence as it's used in the preceding sentence. See how it reads now.@
Parsecboy: Were the back issues of WI, which I trust you've received by now, helpful for that?--
Sturmvogel 66 (
talk)
18:40, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
Image review
Coming soon. Kees08 (Talk) 00:55, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
- Looks like
this is CC-BY-SA, which is a compatible license, any reason not to use that image towards the end of the article?
- Added.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 20:11, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
-
File:HMS Bulwark (1899).jpg - the file page says before 1914, but the source looks like it says 1914. You could use the
direct link instead of the link using the search term, as well.
- Ummm it says "before 1914 /First World War"-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 20:32, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
-
File:Formidable class battleship diagrams Brasseys 1906.jpg - what does Plate 3 mean, is there a way to turn that into a page number? Not sure how to find it on the archive.org source.
- Back in olden times, when you couldn't print high-quality photographs on ordinary paper, a signature(s) of special paper would be inserted into the book block and used to reproduce photos. Because they were printed separately they weren't numbered in the ordinary sequence and might be numbered in their own sequence like this one was. Sometimes, if you get lucky, you might find a reference in the table of contents to something like (photographic section between pages 100 and 101).-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 20:32, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
-
File:Bulwark Q 38376.jpg - This image was created and released by the Imperial War Museum on the IWM Non Commercial Licence. - if it is a non-commercial license we would not be able to use it, but should the licensing of this just be the same as
File:HMS Bulwark (1899).jpg?
- Good catch. Yes it should since it's also a H. Symonds & Co. photograph-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 20:32, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
- File:HMS Bulwark explodes.jpg - description on Commons could be formatted slightly better, if you'd like to.
Should probably be all. Thanks. Kees08 (Talk) 06:59, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for looking these over.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 20:32, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Coordinator notes
I've added this to the Urgents list but it will need to be archived soon if it does not receive some additional reviews. -- Laser brain (talk) 11:43, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- I'll add a full review to my source review today.
Parsecboy (
talk)
13:36, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Looking forward to it.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 13:58, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
Support by Gog the Mild
"Ask me for anything but time."
- "served with the Channel and Home Fleets from 1907 to 1912, usually as a flagship. From 1910 to 1914, she was in reserve" A casual read would suggest that she was both in service and in reserve during at least much of 1910-1912.
- "From 1910 to 1914, she was in reserve. After a refit in 1912, she was assigned to the 5th Battle Squadron of the Home Fleet." Similarly 1912-1914.
- Simplified all this, see how it reads now.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 23:48, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- "her remains were designated as a controlled site" Is "as" necessary?
- "Note 1: "18 cwt" → '12 cwt'.
- Good catch.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 23:48, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- "for combined manoeuvres, landing at Lemnos and Nauplia" Picky, picky, but would 'stopping' or similar be a better word than "landing"?
- "Captain Arthur Leveson temporarily assumed command on 3 January" Would the year be appropriate
- Given in the preceding sentence.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 23:48, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- "4 nmi" IMO this should be given in full. I don't think that it is an abbreviation which many readers can be expected to have come across.
- "ruled out external explosions like a torpedo or a mine" Suggest "like" → 'such as'.
- "30 ft (9.1 m)" Optional: the conversion seems spuriously accurate to me.
That is all I have. Another sound piece of work. Gog the Mild ( talk) 20:11, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for your prompt review.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 23:48, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- And in turn for your rapid response. Leaving aside images and sources this meets all of the criteria, so happy to support. Gog the Mild ( talk) 11:44, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
Comments by CPA-5
- on the 10th, then proceeded to Malta Unlink Malta.
- The ship visited Trondheim, Norway, on 18 June Unlink Norway.
- Captain Robert Falcon Scott of Antarctic fame Unlink Antarctic.
- You know how I feel about geography links.
- Link "normal" in the infobox.
- Can't, every navy defined normal load differently.
That's anything from me. Not much but it can help you. Cheers. CPA-5 ( talk) 22:07, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
- Not to worry, I appreciate you taking time to look it over.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 22:59, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{ featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. -- Laser brain (talk) 00:34, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.