The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot ( talk) 26 October 2023 [1].
Relatively inconspicuous, somewhat overgrown, and more than a hundred years old, the Duffield Memorial sits in the yard of a church nearly a millennium older. Overshadowed as it is, however, the memorial tells an interesting story. An early work by Herbert Maryon, it commemorates members of a prominent local family. At the time, it was considered "quite unique, at any rate in this neighbourhood", and even now, it is an "unusual example of Art Nouveau design in metal work".
This article gives a thorough overview of the memorial and the surrounding context. It was thoroughly reviewed in March by KJP1; since then, TheShinji69 was able to take photos, and I've given the article another review. The article is at, or close to, the best possible version of itself, and so is ready to be nominated here. -- Usernameunique ( talk) 06:09, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
The memorial covers the grave. Is this a single grave in which Marianne, William Ward, and William Bartleet are all buried?
The memorial covers the grave...There's three sentences in a row of the form "fact 1 and fact 2", which sounds stilted. Maybe something like "The Art Nouveau memorial, comprised of edging and a vertical cross, covers the grave. The edging consists of riveted sections of copper alloy sheet metal which follow the rectangular perimeter of the plot, connected by short pillars at each corner. The cross is of the celtic wheel variety, decorated in relief with a leaflike motif." Well, you get the idea. Longer sentences will flow better, and try not to repeat the same sentence structure over and over. Also try to avoid repeated words, such as in "The cross is a Celtic wheel cross".
Newspapers at the time termed the memorial "very fine" and "quite unique" for the area,[1][2] and in 2022 it was designated a Grade II listed building.this is an odd juxtaposition of things that happened 100 years ago and something that happened recently. For the lead, I'd mention the Grade II listing and leave out the minor newspaper quotes.
William Ward Duffield was born on 25 November 1820 to James Duffield, I assume James had the assistance of his wife in this. Do we know her name or anything about her?
He went on to become a successful solicitor, who is "He"? William Ward or James?
including as clerkDrop the "as".
His private positions included a number of roles, drop the "a number of roles", just tell us what they were. As before, in
and as chairman, no need for "as". You can "Be X" or "Serve as X", but don't mix the idioms.
Duffield married Marianne Bartleet, there's a lot of Duffields being discussed; be explicit about which one you're talking about in this sentence.
three surviving children: William Bartleet Duffield (1861–1918[8][9][10]), Arthur Stewart Duffield (1867–1930[11][12]), and Florence Marion DuffieldNo need to keep saying "Duffield". I'd write this as "three surviving children: William Bartleet (1861–1918[8][9][10]), Arthur Stewart (1867–1930[11][12]), and Florence Marion". I suppose we can infer gender from their first names, but that can sometimes be tricky, so perhaps " sons William Bartleet (...) and Arthur Stewart (...), and daughter Florence Marion"?
75 metres (246 ft)per MOS:UNCERTAINTY, you can't convert a measurement with two significant figures into one with three. It should be "75 metres (250 ft). I believe {{ convert}} has a parameter to control that.
The cross ... features a Celtic wheel crossavoid repetition of "cross".
a medallion, now removed...Do we know why or when it was removed?
Two copper plaques are riveted ... The west-facing plaqueAvoid repeating "plaque". Perhaps "... the west-facing one"?
The organisation cited historic interest, architectural interestavoid repetition of "interest".
Historic England termed the memorial "an unusual example of churchyard memorial design that is also memorial to prominent local citizen William Ward Duffield and his sonyou can't do anything about HE's repetition of "memorial", but at least don't compound it with another one of your own :-)
I'm not sure this section adds anything. The first image ("Plaque on the front of the Duffield Memorial's pedestal") could be incorporated into the main body, and "St. Mary's churchyard (Duffield Memorial not visible)" doesn't add anything to the reader's understanding of the memorial, since it's not visible in the photo.
I'm a little concerned that as much space is given to peripheral topics (the entire Background section) as is to the main topic. In particular (as I noted above), I think the Herbert Maryon section could be trimmed considerably. I'd also move the Description section up closer to the top of the article, since that's the main topic.
Thanks for your detailed comment,
RoySmith. Responses above. --
Usernameunique (
talk) 04:44, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
Interesting article. I'll take a look at what I see so far, then take other editors' comments for consideration after my comments are resolved. I've put invisible comments to divide my comments based on sections. Gerald WL 08:56, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
Resolved comments from Gerald WL 03:33, 29 September 2023 (UTC) |
---|
* Would be great if infobox img caption states when the img is taken "(pictured XXXX)"
|
Thanks very much for your comments,
Gerald Waldo Luis. I believe I've addressed everything above, with a single exception—for the Latin, let's give it a day or two to see if I can get the source, otherwise I'll use the website you found. --
Usernameunique (
talk) 07:38, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
Enjoyed this article at GAN, and not much to add here, certainly nothing to stand in the way of my Support. KJP1 ( talk) 08:12, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
In 2022, Historic England designated the work a Grade II listed building, noting its "unusual" design.-- Usernameunique ( talk) 03:49, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
William Duffield went on to become a successful solicitor, founding two firms: Duffield and Son, in Chelmsford, and Duffield, Bruty and Co., in London.-- Usernameunique ( talk) 06:11, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
Not much to quibble about that I can see.
I hope these points are helpful. Tim riley talk 08:14, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
Excellent article. Just a few comments from me:
In 2022, Historic England designated the work a Grade II listed building, noting it as an unusual example of both Art Nouveau metalwork and churchyard memorial.
Hope these help - SchroCat ( talk) 18:47, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
Seeing no major issues, I support, with three notes:
I've removed a bit. Reading was linked per a comment above.
Great work. voorts ( talk/ contributions) 19:19, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
Not sure when or why we started to swamp the FAC TOC with subheadings, but the TOC is an unreadable mess now anyway so I'll just do the same as everyone else.
I have a few comments. Given the nature of them, this may be better on the article's talk page, but I'll press on here.
On a general level, the article is quite short, so we can try to mine information more fully from the available sources.
For example, from the listing entry, we could mention that the riveted copper alloy sheets of the metal cross are formed around a masonry core (currently, the omission of any mention of an internal supporting structure in our article seems to imply to me that it is a freestanding metal object).
The memorial is placed over the grave of the Duffields, which is made of brick.-- Usernameunique ( talk) 03:39, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
And is there any record of what was shown on the medallion that has been removed? Any old pictures of the memorial or the graveyard? Or any record of when and why it was removed? Does it still exist somewhere, in the church perhaps, or was it just stolen or lost?
Are there any sources that discuss the stylistic development of Maryon's known works before and after - the flared base, for example, or use of copper. The list of Works of Herbert Maryon have some similar elements. The base of the Winged Victory, and the flaring of the copper casket. The flared stem and lettering of the silver cup. The wheel cross on his war memorials.
The Broomfield source mentions WWD's schooling at Chelmsford Grammar School where he was later a governor, and his legal training as an articled clerk with Charles Parker in Chelmsford. Apologies, but I am about to dive into social history again.
Digression |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
I think that was Charles George Parker (1780–1847) who was the son of John Oxley Parker; his brother the land agent Christopher Comyns Parker has an entry in the ODNB. [2] Christopher's son Charles Alfred Parker formed Strutt & Parker with Edward Gerald Strutt (who was a son of the second Baron Rayleigh). The land agent aspect becomes relevant again shortly, but if nothing else this shows that Duffield was well connected with the Essex gentry. WWD seems to have started in legal practice on his own account in 1846 (if I am right, note death of his training principal in 1847: I have no proof but I suspect WWD may have taken over Parker's practice). At some point he entered into a partnership with William John Bruty (died 1925, aged 92, so Duffield must have practised alone or with others for a while until Bruty was old enough), with offices in London ( Tokenhouse Yard, then New Broad Street) and Chelmsford and Waltham Abbey, which was dissolved "by mutual consent" and reformed as two separate partnerships in 1900, one for "Duffield Son and Smee" (with ASD and Thomas John Smee) in Chelmsford, and a separate one continuing as "Duffield, Bruty & Co" for the Bruty, and WWD and ASD, and other partners, in London and Waltham Abbey. [3] The two separate firms continued for some time: Duffield, Bruty & Co seems to have lasted until at least 1972, just after the death of Sir Edgar Henry Newton, 2nd Baronet, when there is a mention in the Law Society Gazette of "Nash Field & Co incorporating Duffield Bruty & Co at 9 Devereux Court" which firm was also practising under the name of "Duffield Bruty & Co" in Waltham Cross and Hoddesdon. I suspect a successor firm continues today based in Hoddesdon under the name Duffield Harrison LLP. The firm claims to have been formed in 1843. [4] Meanwhile, the Chelmsford firm of Duffield and Son continued until recently, becoming Duffield Welch [5] then Duffield Stunt and merging into Backhouse Solicitors as recently as 2015. [6] The successor law firm claims ancestry back to 1799, which may date back to the time of Charles Parker or even before. The Duffield Stunt name continued as a separate estate agency until the business was acquired by Charles David Casson in 2017. [7] Now the name is little more than memory in Chelmsford, apart from Duffield Road past Great Baddow High School. The grand old office at 95 High Street has long been left behind to become a coffee shop, but the names continue to exist on Duke Street in Google Streetview. [8] I'm not suggesting you need all of this by any means, and it is at best tangential to the memorial, but to some extent it goes to the social position of the Duffields, and some indication of the longevity of the law firms might be nice. |
You mention Reliance Life and Norwich Union separately. Well, Norwich Union acquired the business of Reliance Life around 1893, [9] which explains why WWD ended up on the London board of the latter. (The London offices of Reliance Life - which had a successful business in East Anglia, particularly Essex - still stand today at 70 King William Street - the curved building on the corner beside St Clement's, Eastcheap.)
I'm delighted that you've made a link between the wider Duffield family and Maryon in Reading. That has narrowed a significant gap, although without sources for a commission it remains a little tenuous. This may be irrelevant, and they may not be related to our Herbert, but there do seem to be some Maryons in Chelmsford around this time. For example, look who is mentioned together here under "Chelmsford Corn Exchange Company". [10]
Sorry, that is a bit of an half-digested brain dump. I don't expect you to pick through it all, but perhaps there are some nuggets to pull out, or trains of thought to follow. Failing that, you can remain tightly focused on these delightful 111 year old bits of copper, about which we know very little. Theramin ( talk) 01:44, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
All images are appropriately licenced. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:36, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
Spot-check upon request. Is "Bruce, Ian (2001). The Loving Eye and Skilful Hand: The Keswick School of Industrial Arts. Carlisle:" a reliable source? I see a lot here is sourced to newspaper articles, particularly regional/local ones - are these high-quality reliable sources? Source formatting is consistent and the necessary information is there. Does Newspapers.com need archive links? Google Books doesn't. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 14:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot ( talk) 26 October 2023 [1].
Relatively inconspicuous, somewhat overgrown, and more than a hundred years old, the Duffield Memorial sits in the yard of a church nearly a millennium older. Overshadowed as it is, however, the memorial tells an interesting story. An early work by Herbert Maryon, it commemorates members of a prominent local family. At the time, it was considered "quite unique, at any rate in this neighbourhood", and even now, it is an "unusual example of Art Nouveau design in metal work".
This article gives a thorough overview of the memorial and the surrounding context. It was thoroughly reviewed in March by KJP1; since then, TheShinji69 was able to take photos, and I've given the article another review. The article is at, or close to, the best possible version of itself, and so is ready to be nominated here. -- Usernameunique ( talk) 06:09, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
The memorial covers the grave. Is this a single grave in which Marianne, William Ward, and William Bartleet are all buried?
The memorial covers the grave...There's three sentences in a row of the form "fact 1 and fact 2", which sounds stilted. Maybe something like "The Art Nouveau memorial, comprised of edging and a vertical cross, covers the grave. The edging consists of riveted sections of copper alloy sheet metal which follow the rectangular perimeter of the plot, connected by short pillars at each corner. The cross is of the celtic wheel variety, decorated in relief with a leaflike motif." Well, you get the idea. Longer sentences will flow better, and try not to repeat the same sentence structure over and over. Also try to avoid repeated words, such as in "The cross is a Celtic wheel cross".
Newspapers at the time termed the memorial "very fine" and "quite unique" for the area,[1][2] and in 2022 it was designated a Grade II listed building.this is an odd juxtaposition of things that happened 100 years ago and something that happened recently. For the lead, I'd mention the Grade II listing and leave out the minor newspaper quotes.
William Ward Duffield was born on 25 November 1820 to James Duffield, I assume James had the assistance of his wife in this. Do we know her name or anything about her?
He went on to become a successful solicitor, who is "He"? William Ward or James?
including as clerkDrop the "as".
His private positions included a number of roles, drop the "a number of roles", just tell us what they were. As before, in
and as chairman, no need for "as". You can "Be X" or "Serve as X", but don't mix the idioms.
Duffield married Marianne Bartleet, there's a lot of Duffields being discussed; be explicit about which one you're talking about in this sentence.
three surviving children: William Bartleet Duffield (1861–1918[8][9][10]), Arthur Stewart Duffield (1867–1930[11][12]), and Florence Marion DuffieldNo need to keep saying "Duffield". I'd write this as "three surviving children: William Bartleet (1861–1918[8][9][10]), Arthur Stewart (1867–1930[11][12]), and Florence Marion". I suppose we can infer gender from their first names, but that can sometimes be tricky, so perhaps " sons William Bartleet (...) and Arthur Stewart (...), and daughter Florence Marion"?
75 metres (246 ft)per MOS:UNCERTAINTY, you can't convert a measurement with two significant figures into one with three. It should be "75 metres (250 ft). I believe {{ convert}} has a parameter to control that.
The cross ... features a Celtic wheel crossavoid repetition of "cross".
a medallion, now removed...Do we know why or when it was removed?
Two copper plaques are riveted ... The west-facing plaqueAvoid repeating "plaque". Perhaps "... the west-facing one"?
The organisation cited historic interest, architectural interestavoid repetition of "interest".
Historic England termed the memorial "an unusual example of churchyard memorial design that is also memorial to prominent local citizen William Ward Duffield and his sonyou can't do anything about HE's repetition of "memorial", but at least don't compound it with another one of your own :-)
I'm not sure this section adds anything. The first image ("Plaque on the front of the Duffield Memorial's pedestal") could be incorporated into the main body, and "St. Mary's churchyard (Duffield Memorial not visible)" doesn't add anything to the reader's understanding of the memorial, since it's not visible in the photo.
I'm a little concerned that as much space is given to peripheral topics (the entire Background section) as is to the main topic. In particular (as I noted above), I think the Herbert Maryon section could be trimmed considerably. I'd also move the Description section up closer to the top of the article, since that's the main topic.
Thanks for your detailed comment,
RoySmith. Responses above. --
Usernameunique (
talk) 04:44, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
Interesting article. I'll take a look at what I see so far, then take other editors' comments for consideration after my comments are resolved. I've put invisible comments to divide my comments based on sections. Gerald WL 08:56, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
Resolved comments from Gerald WL 03:33, 29 September 2023 (UTC) |
---|
* Would be great if infobox img caption states when the img is taken "(pictured XXXX)"
|
Thanks very much for your comments,
Gerald Waldo Luis. I believe I've addressed everything above, with a single exception—for the Latin, let's give it a day or two to see if I can get the source, otherwise I'll use the website you found. --
Usernameunique (
talk) 07:38, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
Enjoyed this article at GAN, and not much to add here, certainly nothing to stand in the way of my Support. KJP1 ( talk) 08:12, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
In 2022, Historic England designated the work a Grade II listed building, noting its "unusual" design.-- Usernameunique ( talk) 03:49, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
William Duffield went on to become a successful solicitor, founding two firms: Duffield and Son, in Chelmsford, and Duffield, Bruty and Co., in London.-- Usernameunique ( talk) 06:11, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
Not much to quibble about that I can see.
I hope these points are helpful. Tim riley talk 08:14, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
Excellent article. Just a few comments from me:
In 2022, Historic England designated the work a Grade II listed building, noting it as an unusual example of both Art Nouveau metalwork and churchyard memorial.
Hope these help - SchroCat ( talk) 18:47, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
Seeing no major issues, I support, with three notes:
I've removed a bit. Reading was linked per a comment above.
Great work. voorts ( talk/ contributions) 19:19, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
Not sure when or why we started to swamp the FAC TOC with subheadings, but the TOC is an unreadable mess now anyway so I'll just do the same as everyone else.
I have a few comments. Given the nature of them, this may be better on the article's talk page, but I'll press on here.
On a general level, the article is quite short, so we can try to mine information more fully from the available sources.
For example, from the listing entry, we could mention that the riveted copper alloy sheets of the metal cross are formed around a masonry core (currently, the omission of any mention of an internal supporting structure in our article seems to imply to me that it is a freestanding metal object).
The memorial is placed over the grave of the Duffields, which is made of brick.-- Usernameunique ( talk) 03:39, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
And is there any record of what was shown on the medallion that has been removed? Any old pictures of the memorial or the graveyard? Or any record of when and why it was removed? Does it still exist somewhere, in the church perhaps, or was it just stolen or lost?
Are there any sources that discuss the stylistic development of Maryon's known works before and after - the flared base, for example, or use of copper. The list of Works of Herbert Maryon have some similar elements. The base of the Winged Victory, and the flaring of the copper casket. The flared stem and lettering of the silver cup. The wheel cross on his war memorials.
The Broomfield source mentions WWD's schooling at Chelmsford Grammar School where he was later a governor, and his legal training as an articled clerk with Charles Parker in Chelmsford. Apologies, but I am about to dive into social history again.
Digression |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
I think that was Charles George Parker (1780–1847) who was the son of John Oxley Parker; his brother the land agent Christopher Comyns Parker has an entry in the ODNB. [2] Christopher's son Charles Alfred Parker formed Strutt & Parker with Edward Gerald Strutt (who was a son of the second Baron Rayleigh). The land agent aspect becomes relevant again shortly, but if nothing else this shows that Duffield was well connected with the Essex gentry. WWD seems to have started in legal practice on his own account in 1846 (if I am right, note death of his training principal in 1847: I have no proof but I suspect WWD may have taken over Parker's practice). At some point he entered into a partnership with William John Bruty (died 1925, aged 92, so Duffield must have practised alone or with others for a while until Bruty was old enough), with offices in London ( Tokenhouse Yard, then New Broad Street) and Chelmsford and Waltham Abbey, which was dissolved "by mutual consent" and reformed as two separate partnerships in 1900, one for "Duffield Son and Smee" (with ASD and Thomas John Smee) in Chelmsford, and a separate one continuing as "Duffield, Bruty & Co" for the Bruty, and WWD and ASD, and other partners, in London and Waltham Abbey. [3] The two separate firms continued for some time: Duffield, Bruty & Co seems to have lasted until at least 1972, just after the death of Sir Edgar Henry Newton, 2nd Baronet, when there is a mention in the Law Society Gazette of "Nash Field & Co incorporating Duffield Bruty & Co at 9 Devereux Court" which firm was also practising under the name of "Duffield Bruty & Co" in Waltham Cross and Hoddesdon. I suspect a successor firm continues today based in Hoddesdon under the name Duffield Harrison LLP. The firm claims to have been formed in 1843. [4] Meanwhile, the Chelmsford firm of Duffield and Son continued until recently, becoming Duffield Welch [5] then Duffield Stunt and merging into Backhouse Solicitors as recently as 2015. [6] The successor law firm claims ancestry back to 1799, which may date back to the time of Charles Parker or even before. The Duffield Stunt name continued as a separate estate agency until the business was acquired by Charles David Casson in 2017. [7] Now the name is little more than memory in Chelmsford, apart from Duffield Road past Great Baddow High School. The grand old office at 95 High Street has long been left behind to become a coffee shop, but the names continue to exist on Duke Street in Google Streetview. [8] I'm not suggesting you need all of this by any means, and it is at best tangential to the memorial, but to some extent it goes to the social position of the Duffields, and some indication of the longevity of the law firms might be nice. |
You mention Reliance Life and Norwich Union separately. Well, Norwich Union acquired the business of Reliance Life around 1893, [9] which explains why WWD ended up on the London board of the latter. (The London offices of Reliance Life - which had a successful business in East Anglia, particularly Essex - still stand today at 70 King William Street - the curved building on the corner beside St Clement's, Eastcheap.)
I'm delighted that you've made a link between the wider Duffield family and Maryon in Reading. That has narrowed a significant gap, although without sources for a commission it remains a little tenuous. This may be irrelevant, and they may not be related to our Herbert, but there do seem to be some Maryons in Chelmsford around this time. For example, look who is mentioned together here under "Chelmsford Corn Exchange Company". [10]
Sorry, that is a bit of an half-digested brain dump. I don't expect you to pick through it all, but perhaps there are some nuggets to pull out, or trains of thought to follow. Failing that, you can remain tightly focused on these delightful 111 year old bits of copper, about which we know very little. Theramin ( talk) 01:44, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
All images are appropriately licenced. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:36, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
Spot-check upon request. Is "Bruce, Ian (2001). The Loving Eye and Skilful Hand: The Keswick School of Industrial Arts. Carlisle:" a reliable source? I see a lot here is sourced to newspaper articles, particularly regional/local ones - are these high-quality reliable sources? Source formatting is consistent and the necessary information is there. Does Newspapers.com need archive links? Google Books doesn't. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 14:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)