Self Nomination. Sourced, accurate, and complete. Gunkyboy 06:44, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Cool. The article as a whole I feel is complete. If there are little things that need tweaking, please point them out. Gunkyboy 13:18, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Support, overall very good, I'm still unsure of Superman being the infobox pic, but nonetheless very good job, and verifiable. Wiki-newbie 13:46, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree that ideally the infobox picture would be of Reeve outside of the costume, but with all of the fair-use restrictions, I felt that this was the best choice. The only other option would be to use the Time Magazine cover. What do you think about that? I feel like it wouldn't look quite as good, but if there is agreement then we can certainly change it. Gunkyboy 15:35, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, that picture of him in a wheelchair is in the Public Domain, even if it doesn't really fully encaspulate his whole life. Wiki-newbie 20:51, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Also, the lead should probably be expanded.-- Dark Kubrick 21:09, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I wrote the entire article in the span of a few days a few weeks ago, so there are bound to be a few tweaks that can be made. And if you find any, by all means do the honors and make the necessary tweaks. This is not my article, this article belongs to all of us. Here's the thing: it seems like when an article is a Featured Article Candidate, people will find any excuse to tear it down. Let's get some perspective here. Ideally, every article on wikipedia should be featured. This is an article that is damn close to being of that quality. So why can't we work together to push it over the hill, then give it a rest and move onto the next article? I think that's how wikipedia should work. 67.161.26.190 02:26, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Not everyone else believes that "this is an article that is damn close to being of featured quality". We're not trying to "tear the article down", we're offering suggestions on how to improve it so it can conform to the featured criteria. Personally, I don't like implementing my own suggestions (unless they're insignificant things, like fixing a comma or something) because the nominator might come up with a reasonable counterargument, or because they know more about the topic than me and are better suited to correct the problem.-- Dark Kubrick 00:13, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I disagree that simply because the article mostly references Reeve's autobiography it should be failed. It means it simply is verifiable enough: to be frank I feel many overestimate the importance of that. Oh, and I like the double picture of Superman: shows Reeve's range as both Clark Kent and Kal-El. Wiki-newbie 11:11, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Reeve's autobiography is certainly a necessary and reliable reference, but to have so few secondary sources does not help the article's verifiabilty. And if you're referring to the picture of Clark Kent and Kal-El juxtaposed in one image, I still don't see much difference between the two besides the glasses. A picture of Clark Kent and Superman together would be great, though.-- Dark Kubrick 17:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Just to clarify, I know they're all the same guy.-- Dark Kubrick 19:51, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Oppose. As per Kicking222. Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo 11:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
The picture of Clark with and without the glasses won't make sense if you haven't seen the film. In the scene, he is in Lois' apartment and is slouched over as Clark. She goes to the bathroom, and he takes off his glasses, stands 3 inches taller, deepens his voice, and almost reveals his identity to her. It's a famous scene from the movie. I could add a one-sentence explanation to the article if necessary. The other complaint seems to be that it is biased towards Reeve. I don't know about that. Give me an example from the article if you can. Maybe you're getting that impression because the article lists all of the accomplishments of the man, and they are all admirable. The third thing I'm getting is that there aren't many sources outside of his autobiography. Well, the problem is that there aren't a ton of biographies about him since he only died 2 years ago. That's the only hard reference you'll find. No other reference will be as complete as the book, and no other reference will be as reliable. Still, there are more than 10 different references now, I believe. If you are unsure of the article's verifiability, don't be. I thought I did a pretty complete job of referencing. If there are some paragraphs without a reference to them, that's because the info from that paragraph came from a previous source. I'll note that in the article. Gunkyboy 07:51, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Your first sentence is part of my point. How are people who have never read or seen anything related to Superman or Reeves going to know what that picture represents? They will wonder what the hell the difference is besides his glasses, as I did. As for your claim that the article is unbiased, take a look at this sentence from the lead (which still needs to be expanded, by the way):
If you insert the words "Many believe..." at the beginning, the sentence is fine, but as it is it sounds like that statement is fact. I'm also confused by "Well, the problem is that there aren't a ton of biographies about him since he only died 2 years ago." What difference does it make when he died? And I'm convinced there are many more reliable sources, if not in books, then in magazines and online.-- Dark Kubrick 02:37, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
I modified the intro. BTW, if this article was not about Chris Reeve, a guy who went under the same ridiculous criticism that Michael J Fox is going through, I doubt you'd have a problem with bias. It's no more biased than any other biographical article out there. Also, I was under the impression that the very best sources are actual books, not websites, which is why I went out and bought his autobiography so I could accurately write this article. If it needs more websites as sources, I'll add some. This article IS verifiable, but in order to verify it would require you to get off your ass and go to the library. :-) Gunkyboy 07:58, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
Self Nomination. Sourced, accurate, and complete. Gunkyboy 06:44, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Cool. The article as a whole I feel is complete. If there are little things that need tweaking, please point them out. Gunkyboy 13:18, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Support, overall very good, I'm still unsure of Superman being the infobox pic, but nonetheless very good job, and verifiable. Wiki-newbie 13:46, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree that ideally the infobox picture would be of Reeve outside of the costume, but with all of the fair-use restrictions, I felt that this was the best choice. The only other option would be to use the Time Magazine cover. What do you think about that? I feel like it wouldn't look quite as good, but if there is agreement then we can certainly change it. Gunkyboy 15:35, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, that picture of him in a wheelchair is in the Public Domain, even if it doesn't really fully encaspulate his whole life. Wiki-newbie 20:51, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Also, the lead should probably be expanded.-- Dark Kubrick 21:09, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I wrote the entire article in the span of a few days a few weeks ago, so there are bound to be a few tweaks that can be made. And if you find any, by all means do the honors and make the necessary tweaks. This is not my article, this article belongs to all of us. Here's the thing: it seems like when an article is a Featured Article Candidate, people will find any excuse to tear it down. Let's get some perspective here. Ideally, every article on wikipedia should be featured. This is an article that is damn close to being of that quality. So why can't we work together to push it over the hill, then give it a rest and move onto the next article? I think that's how wikipedia should work. 67.161.26.190 02:26, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Not everyone else believes that "this is an article that is damn close to being of featured quality". We're not trying to "tear the article down", we're offering suggestions on how to improve it so it can conform to the featured criteria. Personally, I don't like implementing my own suggestions (unless they're insignificant things, like fixing a comma or something) because the nominator might come up with a reasonable counterargument, or because they know more about the topic than me and are better suited to correct the problem.-- Dark Kubrick 00:13, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I disagree that simply because the article mostly references Reeve's autobiography it should be failed. It means it simply is verifiable enough: to be frank I feel many overestimate the importance of that. Oh, and I like the double picture of Superman: shows Reeve's range as both Clark Kent and Kal-El. Wiki-newbie 11:11, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Reeve's autobiography is certainly a necessary and reliable reference, but to have so few secondary sources does not help the article's verifiabilty. And if you're referring to the picture of Clark Kent and Kal-El juxtaposed in one image, I still don't see much difference between the two besides the glasses. A picture of Clark Kent and Superman together would be great, though.-- Dark Kubrick 17:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Just to clarify, I know they're all the same guy.-- Dark Kubrick 19:51, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Oppose. As per Kicking222. Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo 11:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
The picture of Clark with and without the glasses won't make sense if you haven't seen the film. In the scene, he is in Lois' apartment and is slouched over as Clark. She goes to the bathroom, and he takes off his glasses, stands 3 inches taller, deepens his voice, and almost reveals his identity to her. It's a famous scene from the movie. I could add a one-sentence explanation to the article if necessary. The other complaint seems to be that it is biased towards Reeve. I don't know about that. Give me an example from the article if you can. Maybe you're getting that impression because the article lists all of the accomplishments of the man, and they are all admirable. The third thing I'm getting is that there aren't many sources outside of his autobiography. Well, the problem is that there aren't a ton of biographies about him since he only died 2 years ago. That's the only hard reference you'll find. No other reference will be as complete as the book, and no other reference will be as reliable. Still, there are more than 10 different references now, I believe. If you are unsure of the article's verifiability, don't be. I thought I did a pretty complete job of referencing. If there are some paragraphs without a reference to them, that's because the info from that paragraph came from a previous source. I'll note that in the article. Gunkyboy 07:51, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Your first sentence is part of my point. How are people who have never read or seen anything related to Superman or Reeves going to know what that picture represents? They will wonder what the hell the difference is besides his glasses, as I did. As for your claim that the article is unbiased, take a look at this sentence from the lead (which still needs to be expanded, by the way):
If you insert the words "Many believe..." at the beginning, the sentence is fine, but as it is it sounds like that statement is fact. I'm also confused by "Well, the problem is that there aren't a ton of biographies about him since he only died 2 years ago." What difference does it make when he died? And I'm convinced there are many more reliable sources, if not in books, then in magazines and online.-- Dark Kubrick 02:37, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
I modified the intro. BTW, if this article was not about Chris Reeve, a guy who went under the same ridiculous criticism that Michael J Fox is going through, I doubt you'd have a problem with bias. It's no more biased than any other biographical article out there. Also, I was under the impression that the very best sources are actual books, not websites, which is why I went out and bought his autobiography so I could accurately write this article. If it needs more websites as sources, I'll add some. This article IS verifiable, but in order to verify it would require you to get off your ass and go to the library. :-) Gunkyboy 07:58, 29 October 2006 (UTC)