The article was promoted 03:02, 26 November 2007.
A member of the one Bradman's Invincibles, regarded as one of Australia's best ever left hand batsmen and openers. First step towards WP:FT I think. Blnguyen ( bananabucket) 01:34, 16 November 2007 (UTC) reply
Oppose. A lot of work has obviously gone into this article, and it has lots of great information. (He appears to be an important figure – although I know nothing about cricket – so well done.) However, the writing is in need of some significant copy editing. Examples:
Was this article
peer reviewed? It would benefit greatly from that, and from work by someone at the
League of Copy Editors, and I don't think it's in FA range right now. Good luck with it! –
Scartol ·
Talk
03:37, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
Maybe I shouldn't have reviewed this article. I know nothing about cricket, and I expect there are Australian English variants that are giving me problems. In light of all the support votes below, I feel like a jerk for saying that I still don't think this is in the FA range.
The copyedit work has improved things, but (for example) I don't understand why the "Style" section comes first. "Early years" is one very long and (to me) disorganized paragraph. I'm unclear on why the Morris-drive image is hard-coded to 300px. Statements like "opponents spoke of his imposing appearance and his apparent air of complete composure at the crease" are unsourced. And so on.
I'm really not trying to be obstinate or obnoxious. Really! I just feel like there are still too many medium-scale things that need repairing, and I generally don't think FAC is the place for such matters. Good luck, though, and thanks to
Blnguyen for talk-page-ing me. (I did indeed forget to Watch this page.) –
Scartol •
Tok
12:32, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
Support. I still feel like there are copyedit issues that need resolving, but I also feel like I'm being an obstinate jerkhead by opposing, and my objections are, I suppose, not enough to get in the way of FA. So I'll both support and urge another round of copyediting. (Maybe at the LoCE?) For example, the phrase: "His family moved when he was five to Dungog…" would be much easier to read as: "When he was five, his family moved to Dungog…". Also: "He was chosen to make his debut, aged 18, for New South Wales…" This makes it sound as though his debut was aged 18. Et cetera. – Scartol • Tok 13:31, 23 November 2007 (UTC) reply
Well, as always, a thoroughly good read with lots of hard work from Blnguyen. Allow me to make some comments...
So I think that's enough for my first run through. If you had a peer review, my apologies for missing it, I hope this is useful for you. By all means move it over to the talk page of the article or, when finished, we can put it in a collapsible box so we can 'hide' it to make the FA easier to read! Let me know if anything's unclear or if I can be of further use. All the best. The Rambling Man 15:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC) reply
Comment This is a good article with a lot of work put in. I took the liberty of going through and doing a copy edit, I hope that’s OK. Mainly, I edited a lot of passive language and corrected a couple of facts, and added that the press called him Bedser’s Bunny in describing his struggles against Bedser and that his 1st wife died from breast cancer. I have a few thoughts: the paras are too long and the text could benefit from some more headings (or sub headings); the phrase, “he ended the series with xxx runs at xx.xx” is repeated many times; Perry is cited many times, therefore we keep seeing Morris through Bradman’s eyes, what about other opinions?; the pic of Hassett says he was Morris’ regular partner, but this only happened on the 53 tour; Morris was an opener, what about his partnerships with other openers, in particular his union with Barnes?
A couple of debatable points: (a) the article says he was Bradman’s successor as Australia’s best bat, yet Harvey’s article says the same (Harvey has a better claim to this, particularly on figures and longevity) (b) too much detail in the section on the 48 tour (c) the claim that he is best remembered as a member of the invincibles.
Finally, I got confused when I got to the section on the 51-52 series where the series is covered, and then goes back to Morris captaining the side in the 3rd Test, but says it was the 4th. The circumstance is not well described. Originally, Barnes was selected in the 12 for the 3rd game, but this was vetoed by the Board under their secretive “ exclusion on grounds other than cricket performance” rule. Bradman and the other selectors delayed naming the player to replace Barnes because they didn’t want to take the rap. The team arrived in Adelaide (with the selectors) and Hassett pulled out at the very last moment, but had to act as 12th man as the Board couldn't be convened in time to approve a replacement. Phanto282 ( talk) 14:04, 20 November 2007 (UTC) reply
Further comment I have done some more research & found that the vote by the Board over the captaincy for the 49-50 RSA tour was Hassett 7, Morris 6: pretty close. This probably affected the decision to replace him as NSW captain, as the NSWCA would be pushing for their man as Australian captain and figured Miller was a better chance. Also, I think Morris' partnership with Barnes should be mentioned as it was significant in 48, and it seems Morris was not the same when partnered with other players - that is the relevance of the Barnes omission in 51-52 when there was an opportunity to reunite the two. It is also relevant in that Morris was left "holding the can" with an unbalanced team due to politics within the game between the selectors and the Board; they got caught out when Hassett withdrew at an unexpectedly late stage. His 206 in 50-51 is significant in that he overcame his "Bedser complex" with help from Hassett, who shielded him from Bedser early in his innings until he got his footwork sorted out. IMO, if you replace some of the stats with these anecdotes(I don't think that it's necessary to list his runs and ave for every series - suggest putting them in a table at the bottom of the article, nor is it necessary to list Australia taking the lead etc., just give the series result), this will overcome the next reviewer's objection to the article being "dry and technical". Phanto282 ( talk) 04:32, 22 November 2007 (UTC) reply
In general, it would be preferable for there to be more than three published general references. The article also relies relatively heavily on one source (The A-Z of Australian cricketers). More variance in sourcing is desirable.
VanTucky
Talk 20:51, 20 November 2007 (UTC) All issues resolved adequately. So support.
VanTucky
talk
04:48, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
The article was promoted 03:02, 26 November 2007.
A member of the one Bradman's Invincibles, regarded as one of Australia's best ever left hand batsmen and openers. First step towards WP:FT I think. Blnguyen ( bananabucket) 01:34, 16 November 2007 (UTC) reply
Oppose. A lot of work has obviously gone into this article, and it has lots of great information. (He appears to be an important figure – although I know nothing about cricket – so well done.) However, the writing is in need of some significant copy editing. Examples:
Was this article
peer reviewed? It would benefit greatly from that, and from work by someone at the
League of Copy Editors, and I don't think it's in FA range right now. Good luck with it! –
Scartol ·
Talk
03:37, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
Maybe I shouldn't have reviewed this article. I know nothing about cricket, and I expect there are Australian English variants that are giving me problems. In light of all the support votes below, I feel like a jerk for saying that I still don't think this is in the FA range.
The copyedit work has improved things, but (for example) I don't understand why the "Style" section comes first. "Early years" is one very long and (to me) disorganized paragraph. I'm unclear on why the Morris-drive image is hard-coded to 300px. Statements like "opponents spoke of his imposing appearance and his apparent air of complete composure at the crease" are unsourced. And so on.
I'm really not trying to be obstinate or obnoxious. Really! I just feel like there are still too many medium-scale things that need repairing, and I generally don't think FAC is the place for such matters. Good luck, though, and thanks to
Blnguyen for talk-page-ing me. (I did indeed forget to Watch this page.) –
Scartol •
Tok
12:32, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
Support. I still feel like there are copyedit issues that need resolving, but I also feel like I'm being an obstinate jerkhead by opposing, and my objections are, I suppose, not enough to get in the way of FA. So I'll both support and urge another round of copyediting. (Maybe at the LoCE?) For example, the phrase: "His family moved when he was five to Dungog…" would be much easier to read as: "When he was five, his family moved to Dungog…". Also: "He was chosen to make his debut, aged 18, for New South Wales…" This makes it sound as though his debut was aged 18. Et cetera. – Scartol • Tok 13:31, 23 November 2007 (UTC) reply
Well, as always, a thoroughly good read with lots of hard work from Blnguyen. Allow me to make some comments...
So I think that's enough for my first run through. If you had a peer review, my apologies for missing it, I hope this is useful for you. By all means move it over to the talk page of the article or, when finished, we can put it in a collapsible box so we can 'hide' it to make the FA easier to read! Let me know if anything's unclear or if I can be of further use. All the best. The Rambling Man 15:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC) reply
Comment This is a good article with a lot of work put in. I took the liberty of going through and doing a copy edit, I hope that’s OK. Mainly, I edited a lot of passive language and corrected a couple of facts, and added that the press called him Bedser’s Bunny in describing his struggles against Bedser and that his 1st wife died from breast cancer. I have a few thoughts: the paras are too long and the text could benefit from some more headings (or sub headings); the phrase, “he ended the series with xxx runs at xx.xx” is repeated many times; Perry is cited many times, therefore we keep seeing Morris through Bradman’s eyes, what about other opinions?; the pic of Hassett says he was Morris’ regular partner, but this only happened on the 53 tour; Morris was an opener, what about his partnerships with other openers, in particular his union with Barnes?
A couple of debatable points: (a) the article says he was Bradman’s successor as Australia’s best bat, yet Harvey’s article says the same (Harvey has a better claim to this, particularly on figures and longevity) (b) too much detail in the section on the 48 tour (c) the claim that he is best remembered as a member of the invincibles.
Finally, I got confused when I got to the section on the 51-52 series where the series is covered, and then goes back to Morris captaining the side in the 3rd Test, but says it was the 4th. The circumstance is not well described. Originally, Barnes was selected in the 12 for the 3rd game, but this was vetoed by the Board under their secretive “ exclusion on grounds other than cricket performance” rule. Bradman and the other selectors delayed naming the player to replace Barnes because they didn’t want to take the rap. The team arrived in Adelaide (with the selectors) and Hassett pulled out at the very last moment, but had to act as 12th man as the Board couldn't be convened in time to approve a replacement. Phanto282 ( talk) 14:04, 20 November 2007 (UTC) reply
Further comment I have done some more research & found that the vote by the Board over the captaincy for the 49-50 RSA tour was Hassett 7, Morris 6: pretty close. This probably affected the decision to replace him as NSW captain, as the NSWCA would be pushing for their man as Australian captain and figured Miller was a better chance. Also, I think Morris' partnership with Barnes should be mentioned as it was significant in 48, and it seems Morris was not the same when partnered with other players - that is the relevance of the Barnes omission in 51-52 when there was an opportunity to reunite the two. It is also relevant in that Morris was left "holding the can" with an unbalanced team due to politics within the game between the selectors and the Board; they got caught out when Hassett withdrew at an unexpectedly late stage. His 206 in 50-51 is significant in that he overcame his "Bedser complex" with help from Hassett, who shielded him from Bedser early in his innings until he got his footwork sorted out. IMO, if you replace some of the stats with these anecdotes(I don't think that it's necessary to list his runs and ave for every series - suggest putting them in a table at the bottom of the article, nor is it necessary to list Australia taking the lead etc., just give the series result), this will overcome the next reviewer's objection to the article being "dry and technical". Phanto282 ( talk) 04:32, 22 November 2007 (UTC) reply
In general, it would be preferable for there to be more than three published general references. The article also relies relatively heavily on one source (The A-Z of Australian cricketers). More variance in sourcing is desirable.
VanTucky
Talk 20:51, 20 November 2007 (UTC) All issues resolved adequately. So support.
VanTucky
talk
04:48, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
reply