This article is about the single most valuable association football match in the world. It's out for a second trip to FAC, first time round it gained nine supports but there were some subjective issues over understandability of some of the prose. That kind of objection seems to have levelled off lately and common sense has somewhat prevailed on a good balance between being made to explain everything and using linking to help with such matters. As always, I'm more than happy to address any constructive criticism which will improve the article
The Rambling Man (
Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!)
07:10, 27 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Reiterating my Support in the last FAC, though a non football person. Some quibbles that are hardly deal breakers.
The terms leg and aggregate are blue linked, but could you be more descriptive on first instance. eg, I found this confusing until Andy Walker made it 2–2. With the scores level at 3–3 on aggregate at full time.
went ahead in the 40th minute through Jan Åge - "The home side's Jan Åge scored in the"..."went ahead" is a bit jargony, and "through" could be "when Jan Åge scored"
last thing. Should the CRY V SHU Play Off Final 1997, 01:12:52 refs be combined into one; for eg we don't notarize on-line magazines into line 5, line 15, line 20.
Ceoil (
talk)
00:18, 2 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Palace's victory marked the first time a club from London had won a play-off,[64] and they were immediately installed as favourites to be relegated the following season by bookmakers - They won but became favourites to be rellegated?
What was he send off for - altercation seems very vague am left thinking thinking anything from kicking heads to pinching bottoms...kicked the feet from under / fouled ina nother way? I'm sure the commentators were not too dainty to say.
Ceoil (
talk)
08:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)reply
...pass into the box went across the faces picked up by Dyer, who under challenge from Carl Tiler went across the face of Sheffield United's goal and out for a throw-in. Can you rephrase "under challenge from" and "went across the face of"
Ceoil (
talk)
08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)reply
"to gain promotion from the second tier Football League First Division to the English Premiership" - slight sea of blue here making it look like the name of the competition was the "English Premiership". Even if that issue is resolved, the name is incorrect - although its sponsored name was the Premiership, its actual name at the time was the FA Premier League and I believe that is what should be used
"while clubs placed from third to sixth in the league table competed play-off semi-finals" - missing "in"
"The winners of the semi-finals played against each other for the final place in the Premiership" - again, wrong name
"finished bottom of the 1997–98 Premiership" - and again
"Both missed out on the two automatic places for promotion to the Premiership" - and again
"The second leg of the semi-final was played four days later at the Molineux Stadium" - I have never heard it called "the" Molineux
"The return leg took place at Portman Road in Ipswich four days later" - you didn't say when the first leg was played, so "four days later" is meaningless
"after being relegated from the Premiership in the 1993–94 season" - guess :-)
"Howard Kendall, the Sheffield United manager, was making his twelfth appearance at Wembley Stadium" - is this just counting his appearances there as a manager? I'm pretty sure he played there too......
"Obviously Sheffield United are a good side, you have to be to get this close to the Premiership" - I'll let you off this one as it's a direct quote :-)
"In the 31st minute, Andy Linighan was caught in the face by Taylor" - might be worth clarifying - was he caught by his boot? His elbow? Something else?
"Sheffield United kicked the second half off " => "Sheffield United kicked off the second half" would be preferable, I think
First para of the second half has six consecutive sentences which all start with some minor variant of "On N minutes" - any way to vary this a bit?
"from the right-hand side of the Sheffield penalty area which was flicked on by Gordon" - the penalty area was not flicked on
"claimed that his goal was "the most special goal [he] has ever scored" - if he was referring to a goal he himself scored, surely the verb was not "has"?
Lead now says "to gain promotion from the second tier Football League First Division to the English Premier League", with the consecutive blue links making it look like its name is "English Premier League", which it isn't. Also, if there is a need to specify that the leagues are English, why put that against the second one to be mentioned rather than the first? I would personally suggest "third and final team to gain promotion from the Football League First Division, the second tier of the English football league system, to the Premier League."
Hi TRM, it looks to be ticking along nicely, but I would want to see a source review pass before allowing a second nomination. We would also want to see the nomination open for a decent period, to give an opportunity for all reviewers to notice and potentially comment on it. Three weeks is the rule of thumb, but there is some flexibility in this. (Eg see
[2] and
[3].)
Gog the Mild (
talk)
10:10, 4 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Hi
TRM, this has only been open for two weeks, but with the level of support it has attracted it looks to me as if a variant of the
WP:SNOWCLAUSE applies. So sure, feel free to nominate a second.
Gog the Mild (
talk)
08:43, 10 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Source review by Amakuru - Passed. Note that I performed
a source review on 6 January 2021, and I passed it at that point so just reviewing the four refs that have changed since then:
Ref 3: Technically this doesn't appear to verify the fact - since the note is specifically about the name Premiership, the ref should use that term somewhere. Maybe add
[4] as well, for a contemporary source which explicitly uses both "Premiership" and "FA Carling Premiership" in its prose?
Passing source review - I've checked all other changes made since January, and the few new bits of prose are all verified by their sources. This one's good to go. —
Amakuru (
talk)
12:39, 4 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Support - in addition to my source review here, I'm happy to reconfirm my general support which I gave last time. Neither the changes since then, nor the objections which were raised after my !vote, fundamentally change my view that this is an excellently written and thorough summary of the topic. —
Amakuru (
talk)
12:39, 4 May 2021 (UTC)reply
This article is about the single most valuable association football match in the world. It's out for a second trip to FAC, first time round it gained nine supports but there were some subjective issues over understandability of some of the prose. That kind of objection seems to have levelled off lately and common sense has somewhat prevailed on a good balance between being made to explain everything and using linking to help with such matters. As always, I'm more than happy to address any constructive criticism which will improve the article
The Rambling Man (
Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!)
07:10, 27 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Reiterating my Support in the last FAC, though a non football person. Some quibbles that are hardly deal breakers.
The terms leg and aggregate are blue linked, but could you be more descriptive on first instance. eg, I found this confusing until Andy Walker made it 2–2. With the scores level at 3–3 on aggregate at full time.
went ahead in the 40th minute through Jan Åge - "The home side's Jan Åge scored in the"..."went ahead" is a bit jargony, and "through" could be "when Jan Åge scored"
last thing. Should the CRY V SHU Play Off Final 1997, 01:12:52 refs be combined into one; for eg we don't notarize on-line magazines into line 5, line 15, line 20.
Ceoil (
talk)
00:18, 2 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Palace's victory marked the first time a club from London had won a play-off,[64] and they were immediately installed as favourites to be relegated the following season by bookmakers - They won but became favourites to be rellegated?
What was he send off for - altercation seems very vague am left thinking thinking anything from kicking heads to pinching bottoms...kicked the feet from under / fouled ina nother way? I'm sure the commentators were not too dainty to say.
Ceoil (
talk)
08:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)reply
...pass into the box went across the faces picked up by Dyer, who under challenge from Carl Tiler went across the face of Sheffield United's goal and out for a throw-in. Can you rephrase "under challenge from" and "went across the face of"
Ceoil (
talk)
08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)reply
"to gain promotion from the second tier Football League First Division to the English Premiership" - slight sea of blue here making it look like the name of the competition was the "English Premiership". Even if that issue is resolved, the name is incorrect - although its sponsored name was the Premiership, its actual name at the time was the FA Premier League and I believe that is what should be used
"while clubs placed from third to sixth in the league table competed play-off semi-finals" - missing "in"
"The winners of the semi-finals played against each other for the final place in the Premiership" - again, wrong name
"finished bottom of the 1997–98 Premiership" - and again
"Both missed out on the two automatic places for promotion to the Premiership" - and again
"The second leg of the semi-final was played four days later at the Molineux Stadium" - I have never heard it called "the" Molineux
"The return leg took place at Portman Road in Ipswich four days later" - you didn't say when the first leg was played, so "four days later" is meaningless
"after being relegated from the Premiership in the 1993–94 season" - guess :-)
"Howard Kendall, the Sheffield United manager, was making his twelfth appearance at Wembley Stadium" - is this just counting his appearances there as a manager? I'm pretty sure he played there too......
"Obviously Sheffield United are a good side, you have to be to get this close to the Premiership" - I'll let you off this one as it's a direct quote :-)
"In the 31st minute, Andy Linighan was caught in the face by Taylor" - might be worth clarifying - was he caught by his boot? His elbow? Something else?
"Sheffield United kicked the second half off " => "Sheffield United kicked off the second half" would be preferable, I think
First para of the second half has six consecutive sentences which all start with some minor variant of "On N minutes" - any way to vary this a bit?
"from the right-hand side of the Sheffield penalty area which was flicked on by Gordon" - the penalty area was not flicked on
"claimed that his goal was "the most special goal [he] has ever scored" - if he was referring to a goal he himself scored, surely the verb was not "has"?
Lead now says "to gain promotion from the second tier Football League First Division to the English Premier League", with the consecutive blue links making it look like its name is "English Premier League", which it isn't. Also, if there is a need to specify that the leagues are English, why put that against the second one to be mentioned rather than the first? I would personally suggest "third and final team to gain promotion from the Football League First Division, the second tier of the English football league system, to the Premier League."
Hi TRM, it looks to be ticking along nicely, but I would want to see a source review pass before allowing a second nomination. We would also want to see the nomination open for a decent period, to give an opportunity for all reviewers to notice and potentially comment on it. Three weeks is the rule of thumb, but there is some flexibility in this. (Eg see
[2] and
[3].)
Gog the Mild (
talk)
10:10, 4 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Hi
TRM, this has only been open for two weeks, but with the level of support it has attracted it looks to me as if a variant of the
WP:SNOWCLAUSE applies. So sure, feel free to nominate a second.
Gog the Mild (
talk)
08:43, 10 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Source review by Amakuru - Passed. Note that I performed
a source review on 6 January 2021, and I passed it at that point so just reviewing the four refs that have changed since then:
Ref 3: Technically this doesn't appear to verify the fact - since the note is specifically about the name Premiership, the ref should use that term somewhere. Maybe add
[4] as well, for a contemporary source which explicitly uses both "Premiership" and "FA Carling Premiership" in its prose?
Passing source review - I've checked all other changes made since January, and the few new bits of prose are all verified by their sources. This one's good to go. —
Amakuru (
talk)
12:39, 4 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Support - in addition to my source review here, I'm happy to reconfirm my general support which I gave last time. Neither the changes since then, nor the objections which were raised after my !vote, fundamentally change my view that this is an excellently written and thorough summary of the topic. —
Amakuru (
talk)
12:39, 4 May 2021 (UTC)reply