Closer voted !delete in this TfD. However, he also relisted and closed as delete this discussion. So this closure is in questions and violates
WP:INVOLVED. I did not leave messages/discuss about this on his talk page. Because there is already a DRV about his closure which opened today
Hhkohh (
talk) 08:45, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Just note Gonnym is a nom of this TfD
Hhkohh (
talk) 10:22, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Endorse - Two editors opposing deletion - one claiming it is still being used, which is a non-argument, as the proposal was to replace current uses with another template. The second opposed as it wasn't stated by the user adding the deprecation notice, why it was done. I found the discussion that resulted in consensus for that decision but the editor opposing ignored my finding (he commented later on that same discussion). A pretty much non-controversial closure, which was re-listed twice and the second didn't get any other comments. --
Gonnym (
talk) 09:00, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Gonnym: I think we should leave other editors close it not by himself. He is an involved editor. No matter whether the outcome is keep or delete, he should not close the discussion
Hhkohh (
talk) 09:04, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
I'd probably leave it for other people to close, but I'd also never close any disscussion as I just don't want to deal with any backlash of any kind. There is enough drama even from regular editing. However, if you want to get technical,
Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Closing instructions does not mention
WP:INVOLVED. Maybe it should, but currently it doesn't. Also, I don't appreciate using Wikipedia bureaucratic tools as a means for warring with another editor, which to me seems to be the case, after he yesterday took you here, you opened two cases against him. --
Gonnym (
talk) 09:23, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Gonnym: Per
WP:NACD: Do not close discussions in which you have offered an opinion, or for a page in which you have a vested interest (i.e. a page that you have edited heavily). So he is still not allowed to close this TfD
Hhkohh (
talk) 09:34, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Overturn.
WP:INVOLVED is fundamental (and a policy).
Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Closing instructions is a helpful guide for people who understand all the policies and guidelines which inform the actions they're about to take. Zackmann commented in the discussion; even if he were an administrator it would be improper for him to then close it. While we're on the subject, he shouldn't have relisted it either. I wouldn't consider that discussion a good candidate for NACD either.
Mackensen(talk) 17:54, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Overturn and
WP:TROUT. I don't work with TfD much, so I don't know what culture has developed there, but this looks like one of the worst
WP:NAC's I've seen. It violates
WP:INVOLVED (regardless of whether the closer is an admin or not), and violates
WP:NCD in multiple ways. The close should be reverted, and left for an uninvolved admin to re-close. I'd revert the close myself, but not being a TfD regular, I'm not sure what the right process is to do that.
Overturn closing a discussion that you participated in with the result you advocated is blatantly inappropriate and clearly violates
WP:INVOLVED and
WP:NACD. Relisting it was also not a good idea. An admin closer would be expected to know this and frankly if you consider yourself experienced enough to close these discussions then you should know it as well. Hut 8.5 21:43, 12 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Overturn Clear bright-line violations here. ~ Amory(
u •
t •
c) 16:35, 13 March 2019 (UTC)reply
The above is an archive of the
deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it.
Template:Nippon Professional Draft by year – Overturn. Unanimous consensus that these
WP:NACs were inappropriate, and in some cases violated
WP:INVOLVED, which applies to all closes, NAC or not. I'm going to undelete the templates and relist the existing discussions. I'm only marginally familiar with
WP:TFD procedures, so if I get some technical details wrong in the relisting, please just go ahead and fix whatever I messed up. --
RoySmith(talk) 14:56, 16 March 2019 (UTC)reply
The closer has supervoted as
WP:NENAN in Template:Nippon Professional Draft by year discussion while closing and even commented in one discussion in a discussion and then closed those discussions. Since he is involved, he should not close those discussions by himself
Hhkohh (
talk) 05:58, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
See also
WT:TFD (Frietjes and Primefac raised this concern), closer has replyed there, but he did not unclose it
Hhkohh (
talk) 07:45, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Those discussions have one !keep vote separately. Additionally, for example, in Template:NGC Series banknotes and coins, closer commented your comments on this and other TFDs show you are completely missing the point. No one is saying to delete the content, there is just no reason for there to be a template. Place the image and the link on the one article in question directly, no reason for a template.. That is regarded that you give your own opinion in TfD. Therefore, it is
WP:INVOLVED case
Hhkohh (
talk) 14:14, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Overturn at least
Template:Nippon Professional Draft by year and probably all the others as well. Did you ask the closer to withdraw their close? Neither the nomination nor the keep argument had anything to do with what is said in
WP:NENAN so that was an incorrect closing rationale. Anyway, NENAN is an essay (and, after its first sentence, a very poor essay) which does not mention deletion. In NENAN's (monstrous) navbox it is included under "construction" – it is offering an opinion on how navboxes could be constructed and used, not how they should be deleted. If used at all, NENAN should be a starting point for discussion about a template, not a conclusion.
Thincat (
talk) 07:11, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
I've only now looked at the 8 March DRV for
Template:Puke and I see there has been irresponsible behaviour at TFD. That aspect is outside the purview of DRV and may make any policy-based deletion review impossible.
Thincat (
talk) 07:31, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Ah, seeing
Hhkohh's later comment above, the matter was discussed.
Here is the best diff I can provide.
Thincat (
talk) 08:47, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Overturn all of them. Inappropriate non-admin closure. Only one editor expressed an opinion and it was directly contrary to the close. Consensus was not reached in any of these discussions.
Mackensen(talk) 17:58, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Re-open As the closer I agree that this should be reopened for further discussion. Should be noted that
Hhkohh made NO attempt to contact me and ask me to reopen the discussion or withdraw my closure. This is also clear retaliation for me opening a DRV against their closure which is pretty lame. That being said, if others feel this should be re-opened, I have no issue with that. --Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 18:50, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Overturn as above. In particular,
Template:NGC_Series_banknotes_and_coins, which has the closer commenting in the discussion, with a clear opinion on the matter, then closing 24 hours later. ~ Amory(
u •
t •
c) 16:45, 13 March 2019 (UTC)reply
The above is an archive of the
deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it.
Closer voted !delete in this TfD. However, he also relisted and closed as delete this discussion. So this closure is in questions and violates
WP:INVOLVED. I did not leave messages/discuss about this on his talk page. Because there is already a DRV about his closure which opened today
Hhkohh (
talk) 08:45, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Just note Gonnym is a nom of this TfD
Hhkohh (
talk) 10:22, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Endorse - Two editors opposing deletion - one claiming it is still being used, which is a non-argument, as the proposal was to replace current uses with another template. The second opposed as it wasn't stated by the user adding the deprecation notice, why it was done. I found the discussion that resulted in consensus for that decision but the editor opposing ignored my finding (he commented later on that same discussion). A pretty much non-controversial closure, which was re-listed twice and the second didn't get any other comments. --
Gonnym (
talk) 09:00, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Gonnym: I think we should leave other editors close it not by himself. He is an involved editor. No matter whether the outcome is keep or delete, he should not close the discussion
Hhkohh (
talk) 09:04, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
I'd probably leave it for other people to close, but I'd also never close any disscussion as I just don't want to deal with any backlash of any kind. There is enough drama even from regular editing. However, if you want to get technical,
Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Closing instructions does not mention
WP:INVOLVED. Maybe it should, but currently it doesn't. Also, I don't appreciate using Wikipedia bureaucratic tools as a means for warring with another editor, which to me seems to be the case, after he yesterday took you here, you opened two cases against him. --
Gonnym (
talk) 09:23, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Gonnym: Per
WP:NACD: Do not close discussions in which you have offered an opinion, or for a page in which you have a vested interest (i.e. a page that you have edited heavily). So he is still not allowed to close this TfD
Hhkohh (
talk) 09:34, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Overturn.
WP:INVOLVED is fundamental (and a policy).
Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Closing instructions is a helpful guide for people who understand all the policies and guidelines which inform the actions they're about to take. Zackmann commented in the discussion; even if he were an administrator it would be improper for him to then close it. While we're on the subject, he shouldn't have relisted it either. I wouldn't consider that discussion a good candidate for NACD either.
Mackensen(talk) 17:54, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Overturn and
WP:TROUT. I don't work with TfD much, so I don't know what culture has developed there, but this looks like one of the worst
WP:NAC's I've seen. It violates
WP:INVOLVED (regardless of whether the closer is an admin or not), and violates
WP:NCD in multiple ways. The close should be reverted, and left for an uninvolved admin to re-close. I'd revert the close myself, but not being a TfD regular, I'm not sure what the right process is to do that.
Overturn closing a discussion that you participated in with the result you advocated is blatantly inappropriate and clearly violates
WP:INVOLVED and
WP:NACD. Relisting it was also not a good idea. An admin closer would be expected to know this and frankly if you consider yourself experienced enough to close these discussions then you should know it as well. Hut 8.5 21:43, 12 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Overturn Clear bright-line violations here. ~ Amory(
u •
t •
c) 16:35, 13 March 2019 (UTC)reply
The above is an archive of the
deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it.
Template:Nippon Professional Draft by year – Overturn. Unanimous consensus that these
WP:NACs were inappropriate, and in some cases violated
WP:INVOLVED, which applies to all closes, NAC or not. I'm going to undelete the templates and relist the existing discussions. I'm only marginally familiar with
WP:TFD procedures, so if I get some technical details wrong in the relisting, please just go ahead and fix whatever I messed up. --
RoySmith(talk) 14:56, 16 March 2019 (UTC)reply
The closer has supervoted as
WP:NENAN in Template:Nippon Professional Draft by year discussion while closing and even commented in one discussion in a discussion and then closed those discussions. Since he is involved, he should not close those discussions by himself
Hhkohh (
talk) 05:58, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
See also
WT:TFD (Frietjes and Primefac raised this concern), closer has replyed there, but he did not unclose it
Hhkohh (
talk) 07:45, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Those discussions have one !keep vote separately. Additionally, for example, in Template:NGC Series banknotes and coins, closer commented your comments on this and other TFDs show you are completely missing the point. No one is saying to delete the content, there is just no reason for there to be a template. Place the image and the link on the one article in question directly, no reason for a template.. That is regarded that you give your own opinion in TfD. Therefore, it is
WP:INVOLVED case
Hhkohh (
talk) 14:14, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Overturn at least
Template:Nippon Professional Draft by year and probably all the others as well. Did you ask the closer to withdraw their close? Neither the nomination nor the keep argument had anything to do with what is said in
WP:NENAN so that was an incorrect closing rationale. Anyway, NENAN is an essay (and, after its first sentence, a very poor essay) which does not mention deletion. In NENAN's (monstrous) navbox it is included under "construction" – it is offering an opinion on how navboxes could be constructed and used, not how they should be deleted. If used at all, NENAN should be a starting point for discussion about a template, not a conclusion.
Thincat (
talk) 07:11, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
I've only now looked at the 8 March DRV for
Template:Puke and I see there has been irresponsible behaviour at TFD. That aspect is outside the purview of DRV and may make any policy-based deletion review impossible.
Thincat (
talk) 07:31, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Ah, seeing
Hhkohh's later comment above, the matter was discussed.
Here is the best diff I can provide.
Thincat (
talk) 08:47, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Overturn all of them. Inappropriate non-admin closure. Only one editor expressed an opinion and it was directly contrary to the close. Consensus was not reached in any of these discussions.
Mackensen(talk) 17:58, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Re-open As the closer I agree that this should be reopened for further discussion. Should be noted that
Hhkohh made NO attempt to contact me and ask me to reopen the discussion or withdraw my closure. This is also clear retaliation for me opening a DRV against their closure which is pretty lame. That being said, if others feel this should be re-opened, I have no issue with that. --Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 18:50, 9 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Overturn as above. In particular,
Template:NGC_Series_banknotes_and_coins, which has the closer commenting in the discussion, with a clear opinion on the matter, then closing 24 hours later. ~ Amory(
u •
t •
c) 16:45, 13 March 2019 (UTC)reply
The above is an archive of the
deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it.