Ankur Jain ( talk| | history| logs| links| watch) ( XfD| restore)

A new page I created from scratch using very reliable source material was deleted under G4 category of the Criteria for speedy deletion. This deletion was inappropriate because there was little chance that my creation was a "sufficiently identical" copy of the previously deleted page (BTW deleted with very little discussion!). I would wager a comparison of the two will show no similarity except for the subject matter, a notable person as demonstrated by the page I created. Sources showing notability: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]

I have tried to raise the issue with the administrator who deleted the page and will post a notice on their talk page about this deletion review. ShadesHeroGurly ( talk) 22:13, 1 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• Endorse. I looked at the recreated article. It is indeed similar enough to the previously deleted version for WP:G4 to apply. My suggestion is to write a new article in draft space, taking care to find good reliable sources, and then submit it via WP:AFC. -- RoySmith (talk)uj 00:17, 2 March 2018 (UTC) reply
• Comment I'm on mobile which is why I hadn't responded on my talk page prior to this. I stand by my decision though given that an AFD had concluded the subject was not notable so recently. And if SHG is not a sock of an already blocked editor, I will eat my mop. SmartSE ( talk) 13:40, 2 March 2018 (UTC) reply
• overturn and list if desired I can't see either the old or the current version, but the sources listed above (WSJ, Wired, Irish times) are solid enough to justify an article. Now maybe the article was too promotional or something (seems likely in fact given the topic and the AfD comments), but WP:N is easily met here. Either the sources weren't in the article during the first AfD or the AfD !votes were just bad (this is press release stuff? And being a VP has no bearing on notablity). Either way, I think this should be restored and, if anyone feels like it, listed at AfD. Hobit ( talk) 22:20, 4 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Tempundeleted for review. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:42, 5 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Thanks Roy. Yeah, this is a bit of a mess. Both deleted articles are a bit promotional. And both feel like paid pieces (or COI at the least). I'm never quite sure what to do here--deletion isn't a great way forward for a topic that meets WP:N, but I also don't think we should have halographies. And we don't deal well with issues like this. @ ShadesHeroGurly: can you talk to us about your relationship with the subject? Have you disclosed a COI somewhere that I'm missing? If that's not the case, I'd be interested to hear what it is the brought you to write this article. Hobit ( talk) 16:53, 5 March 2018 (UTC) reply

User:Hobit, I asked them about paid editing; this was their reply. I do not find their reply very credible as their editing ( contribs)is not that of a new editor, is promotional, and is on the kind of topics that paid editors work on and specific subjects that have been a problem in the past. (I share Smartse's perspective). Jytdog ( talk) 17:16, 5 March 2018 (UTC) reply

So what do we do here? The topic is notable. The bio is a holography one might find on a corporate website. Roll back to something reasonable and protect as needed? I'm not really sure. I just don't think our current deletion criteria are met here. (I'm really starting to hate COI editing of bios and companies, it really hurts Wikipedia). Hobit ( talk) 18:50, 5 March 2018 (UTC) reply

I think you mean hagiography?  :) Perhaps we could draftify and put through AfC to have the promotional stuff removed. Jytdog ( talk) 19:15, 5 March 2018 (UTC) reply

I thought that looked wrong. Yes, that is what I meant. But even after AfC it will all come back. It always does. Hobit ( talk) 20:01, 6 March 2018 (UTC) reply

I am not sure there are enough RSs for notability : the Irish Times articles is a promotional interview where Jain says whatever he wants to; the fast company item is an advertorial for the3 company; the wired feature is more extensive, but is also promotional in tone--all obviously inspired by PR. It's more likely his organization is notable than he is personally. DGG ( talk ) 22:48, 6 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Always hard to call articles in places liked Wired promotional. And the WSJ article is also pretty extensive. Hobit ( talk) 07:02, 7 March 2018 (UTC) reply

These sources are about Jain. He's the subject of the articles. Hobit ( talk) 21:08, 7 March 2018 (UTC) reply

@ Smartse: Was that a veiled attempt at WP:VOTESTACKING? Because it is apparently working.

I was under the impression this was a place to discuss whether a speedy deletion was warranted and uncontroversial. The question I thought was simple:

Are the two versions "sufficiently identical"? Not sufficiently similar because of course they are going to be similar because the subject matter is the same.

• AfD version
• New version

When you compare these, especially their reference sections, how can you say they are anywhere near identical? ShadesHeroGurly ( talk) 23:25, 7 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Endorse as delete. Xxanthippe ( talk) 21:34, 7 March 2018 (UTC). reply

• Endorse (as AfD nominator) - no encyclopedic relevance here, as shown at the AfD. K.e.coffman ( talk) 01:35, 8 March 2018 (UTC) reply
  • There are five articles listed above. They clearly cover the topic in detail. WP:N is trivially met. Just stating otherwise isn't meaningful unless all we are doing is nose counting. Hobit ( talk) 03:29, 8 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Here is how much detail is available about Ankur Jain in reliable sources:

• "At age 10 [Jain] got his first cellphone, a flip model that could only text one person at a time. He learned basic computer coding so that he could build a program that allowed him to text multiple friends from his computer..." - The Wall Street Journal
• "By seventh grade, Ankur had started his first Web company, Starnium, whose site offered desktop wallpapers, jokes, and games for young Web surfers..." - Inc.
• "At 11, he created his first company, MyOnlineQuiz, which developed Internet quizzes and surveys that you could take about your friends..." - Reuters
• "Some teenagers get summer jobs at Starbucks, or intern at a local business. At 17, Jain spent the summer before college in Hong Kong working for [Adrmiral William] Owens, who was then running a large private equity group. Jain shadowed Owens as he hammered out strategies for bringing large Chinese companies to the US..." - WIRED
• "Ankur’s father, Naveen, started InfoSpace, a big search engine pre-Google, in the late-1990s. Ankur’s mother sits on the board of the X-Prize. But he’s achieved a lot on his own..." - Fast Company
• "He founded the [Kairos Society] as an undergraduate at the Wharton School in 2008..." - Irish Times
• "Ankur Jain is 27 years old, is an elegant and smiling young man, who was born in Bellevue, Washington State, from parents of Indian origins..." - Pagina 99

This clearly demonstrates enough significant coverage to pass WP:GNG. None of this was discussed at the original AfD and, with the exception of the Inc. magazine article, none of them were even present in the first article. At the very least, this warrants a Relist for a more substantial discussion than the previous discussion involving a total of 3 users.

I am interested to hear if killiondude would have closed as delete if presented with such an argument and these new refs. ShadesHeroGurly ( talk) 14:36, 8 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• Endorse The first deletion was clearly the right decision, and the recreated article was sufficiently identical to justify a speedy deletion. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 02:32, 9 March 2018 (UTC) reply