Peter Crawley (headmaster) ( talk| | history| logs| links| watch) ( XfD| restore)

This article was deleted at AfD in 2011 so I'm obviously not appealing the decision, but rather asking for recreation to be allowed on the basis that "significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page" on a subject that was already borderline notable (see keep votes at the AfD). I am filing this largely at the behest of Castlemate who asked me on my talk page about how to proceed to get this article undeleted. They noted on my talk page that "Crawley has continued to be a notable as an educationalist and has now retired as a Headmaster. This article in The Australian and this one about his Honorary Doctorate suggests that his notability is now above dispute." and I agree with this assessment. The deleting admin was contacted in August but unfortunately they are largely inactive and have not yet responded. Jenks24 ( talk) 11:29, 24 October 2017 (UTC) reply

• Meh. On the one hand, the standard answer to requests like this is, With a 6 year old AfD, there's no need to ask DRV for permission to recreate if new sources have appeared; just go ahead, be WP:BOLD, and do it. On the other hand, we don't have articles about every person who gets an honorary doctorate. I suggest reading WP:NACADEMIC and seeing if this person meets those criteria. From what I can see, I'd suggest they don't, but other editors may have other opinions. While not required, I suggest going through WP:AfC to get some review. By the way, I couldn't see the article in The Australian; it's behind their paywall. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:59, 24 October 2017 (UTC) reply

I noticed there's already Peter Crawley and Peter Crawley (cricketer). If this does end up getting recreated, I would re-organize Peter Crawley as a WP:DAB page. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:02, 24 October 2017 (UTC) reply

Should the DRV instructions be updated to reflect this standard practice?

I suppose I should have been a bit clearer in my nomination. I think undeletion would be preferable to simply allowing recreation in this case. Why go to the effort of rewriting from scratch when the bear bones are already there? I considered just undeleting it myself but considering I voted keep at the original AfD I thought I might still be considered involved and it is better to be safe than sorry in those cases.

Regarding the actual notability question, NACADEMIC explicitly does not cover people associated with secondary education, it is only for higher/tertiary education. I'm not sure if there is a SNG for people in secondary education, but I don't think it matters much anyway – my argument would be that Crawley passes the general notability guideline with an entry in Who's Who in Australia and the reasonably in-depth article in The Australian. If you want to view that article, a handy trick is to paste the URL into a google search and then click through the first link provided, you will nearly always be able to dodge the paywall that way. Jenks24 ( talk) 17:38, 24 October 2017 (UTC) reply

I have no objection to undeletion. I'm still not convinced there's enough here to demonstrate WP:N, but if people don't like it, they can take it to AfD. -- RoySmith (talk) 23:58, 24 October 2017 (UTC) reply

• Undelete to allow article improvement (and thank you for the trick to reach a fascinating article!). Thincat ( talk) 21:39, 24 October 2017 (UTC) reply

• Undelete to allow this bio to be improved and updated. The reasons given by Griffith University for awarding a high school principal an honorary doctorate appear to address questions of notability: Griffith University has honoured St Hilda's School principal Peter Crawley, one of the pioneers of using computers and tablets in the classroom, with an honorary doctorate for services to education ... while computers and education are so ingrained in schools and teaching institutions today it was Mr Crawley who opened the eyes of technology giants Microsoft and Toshiba to their potential in classrooms in the early 90s. His use of notebook computers at Trinity Grammar School (Victoria) was ground-breaking and Microsoft produced a distributed a film documenting how computers could be used in teaching environments. He also spoke at conferences around the world letting educators know how they could integrate computers. His passion for using technology in schools led to a personal letter from Bill Gates thanking him for showing Microsoft staff and educators worldwide what could be achieved. He was also invited to address the Toshiba board in Japan on the potential usage of computers in education.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Castlemate ( talk • contribs)
• Restore to allow improvement. Six years is a long time and The Australian article is much better than anything in the article at the time of deletion. Hut 8.5 06:48, 25 October 2017 (UTC) reply
• Agree with the restoration. The Australian article is really solid evidence of notability. Hobit ( talk) 15:37, 25 October 2017 (UTC) reply
• Undelete. New claims of notability overcome the old AfD. -- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 05:40, 26 October 2017 (UTC) reply
• Unnecessary You don't need to stop by DRV just because something has been deleted before. WP:REFUND or ask an admin, add the sources, and WP:BOLD. Jclemens ( talk) 05:33, 29 October 2017 (UTC) reply
  • This has been a bizarre experience. I ask again, do the instructions for when to use DRV need to be updated or clarified? This article would not get undeleted at REFUND, at least according to the instructions there and a quick perusal of the page where several requests were declined for being deleted at AfD. The admin who closed the debate was asked. Should I really have undeleted this myself despite being a keep vote in the original AfD? Jenks24 ( talk) 06:25, 29 October 2017 (UTC) reply
    • The standard line at REFUND is to decline to restore pages deleted by deletion discussions and refer them to DRV or the closing admin. I don't think there's anything stopping you from restoring it yourself if you didn't take part in the discussion but it is something of a grey area and for a recently closed AfD it may well be seen as inappropriate. If you want to write a new article from scratch with these improvements, rather than restoring the old one, then you definitely don't need to ask anybody. I think DRV is probably the best place for these requests in the absence of anything better. Hut 8.5 11:06, 29 October 2017 (UTC) reply
    • You could have gone to REFUND first, and then come here if someone hesitated there. Undeleting yourself would be bad form, but not wrong. These sort of requests have come to DRV as long as I have been around, and the amount of procedural comment fuss today is unusual. — SmokeyJoe ( talk) 11:33, 29 October 2017 (UTC) reply
    • DRV Purpose notes appended, for this sort of thing. — SmokeyJoe ( talk) 11:43, 29 October 2017 (UTC) reply
      • Thanks both. I honestly wasn't trying to make a fuss, I was just a bit bemused because I really thought I was going about things the right way here. Jenks24 ( talk) 12:01, 29 October 2017 (UTC) reply