OpenCart ( talk| | history| logs| links| watch) ( XfD| restore)

Overturn and unprotect to allow fresh article creation. (Is semi-protection appropriate instead? I expect unnecessary given the time that has passed, and the intended fresh article stub.)

OpenCart is an open source e-commerce web application whose article was deleted five times between November 8, 2006 and April 28, 2010. The article was fully protected after the fifth deletion. The two deletion discussions from 2009 are here and here. The other three deletions appear to be speedy deletions.

I have not seen the older article(s) that were deleted but since protection in 2010 OpenCart has gained notability, and I believe full protection is no longer appropriate. I made a fresh article stub User:OldEcomGuru/OpenCart_article and Kww suggested I raise it here at WP:DRV.

(Just for the record - I am NOT OpenCartGuru/Qphoria, who I mention in the article.)

The two main sources I found after a basic search have a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy - they are not press releases. This is even though the article revision I wrote so far, can be viewed as being just a first draft stub. They however should prove notability enough to allow recreation of the article. (The Secunia references include links to other places where the vulnerabilities are discussed, and could be a classed as a third source, i.e. as OpenCart is notable enough since 2010 for security researchers to care about it.)

Proving notability under the usual criteria is a general issue with these shopping cart systems (see the articles on PrestaShop and Magento for example); many are notable but proving it can take some time to find the sources. Those two articles for example clearly have not received the same scrutiny from editors yet - and they should (I for one intend to contribute).

As an aside, perhaps number of downloads, from a fairly impartial site, such as can be found for WordPress plugins on wordpress.org, can be used as additional criteria on notability. But I digress, as OpenCart is not a WordPress plugin. OldEcomGuru ( talk) 12:47, 19 September 2013 (UTC) reply

• Comment Notability is indeed hard to prove for b-to-b software in general. For consumer software we can generally find good substantial reviews (not just mentions in a joint review) from 3rd party independent published reliable sources, that are not just repeats of the company's PR, but they're much rare or at least much less accessible here. Of the references in your draft article the only one seems to be this one. We'd normally ask for more than one, but this is a start. (I personally do not know the reliability of the source or the reviewer.) DGG ( talk ) 17:41, 19 September 2013 (UTC) reply

• Comment I found a representative review and added it. I'm limited for time today but no doubt there are other suitable sources 'out there'. OldEcomGuru ( talk) 22:32, 19 September 2013 (UTC) reply

• Comment As an aside, perhaps number of downloads, from a fairly impartial site, such as can be found for WordPress plugins on wordpress.org, can be used as additional criteria on notability. BuiltWith Trends comes closest. They collate based on the top million sites from Quantcast, and other sources. I've started adding them to the various shopping cart systems including to my OpenCart draft article; OpenCart is notable enough that they track it. OldEcomGuru ( talk) 19:48, 24 September 2013 (UTC) reply

• Keep deleted: The article in your draft wouldn't survive AFD. The source that DGG mentions is the best source, and it appears to be paid promotion.— Kww( talk) 17:57, 19 September 2013 (UTC) reply

• Comment Final comment of the day from me... if the community consensus is to not unprotect in this case, we should nominate PrestaShop (and similiar ones) for AFD in the same way; but improving them *all* seems a better option. These all are notable web applications within the shopping cart sphere. I am spending time on OpenCart first because I am surprised it is still protected; for example it is included in the comparison matrices in other articles and has been added back there at various times by various editors (seem not to be sock puppets of the developers of OpenCart) and I intend to follow WP:WTAF. I am taking this also as a learning experience on what it takes to write an acceptable article. OldEcomGuru ( talk) 22:59, 19 September 2013 (UTC) reply

You are quite right about PrestaShop--unless some reviews can be found , it's likely headed for afd. In the past we've negligently not deleted many such articles, and ought to remove them; and we certainly don't need to add to their number. 'DGG (at NYPL) ( talk) 18:10, 23 September 2013 (UTC) reply