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20 June 2012

The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it.
Erling O. Kruse ( talk| | history| logs| links| watch) ( XfD| restore)

I`m impressed! You delete a Norwegian Warhero - congratulations! (... Yes I know, he is norwegian, but ...) Let`s see (to compere): Jørun Drevland (born 15 March 1944) is a Norwegian politician for the Socialist Left Party. She served as a deputy representative to the Norwegian Parliament from Nordland during the term 1993–1997. Agree, she is notable, and she is the mother of the norwegian Rock Star Sivert Høyem (and sister in-laws with the Mayor of Bergen, Norway Trude Drevland), but compared to Erling Kruse she is (sorry) a dwarf! Well - this is not my problem, but sorry to say so, but you make fools og Wikipedia by showing this sort of ignorance! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Knuand ( talk • contribs)

  • Note: Deletion review formatting has been appropriately fixed. I also note that the user recreated the article right after posting this deletion review and making a comment on the AFD after its closure ( [1]). I have speedy deleted the recreation per WP:CSD#G4, but if admin wants to temporarily restore for purposes of this DRV, I certainly will not stand in the way of that. -- MuZemike 21:56, 20 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Closing admin's comment: AfD closed with unanimous consensus to delete. Based on the evicence Kruse fails to meet either the relevant notability essay ( WP:SOLDIER) or the WP:GNG. WP:WAX argument fails as Drevland meets guideline WP:POLITICIAN. Page temporarily restored for the discussion. Note also that the page in question is Erling O. Kruse, not Jusst Kruse, so I have corrected the above appropriately. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:14, 20 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Endorse-No indication that process wasn't followed. DRV is not AfD round two.-- Fyre2387 ( talk • contribs) 22:29, 20 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Endorse per above comments. Unanimous vote to delete by several uninvolved editors, which was properly handled by the deleting admin. This was not an abuse of process. elektrik SHOOS ( talk) 22:37, 20 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Endorse I can't see how that could have closed without deletion. What we need are some reliable independant sources and they appear lacking. I also see that the article has been translated from the Norwegian bokmal wikipedia so if this does get overturned we need to see about attributing this. Spartaz Humbug! 02:08, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment - My impression is that someone is trying to put the Kruse genealogy in English Wikipedia via an article on Erling Ove Kruse (born 10 August 1922 in Oslo; a decorated Norwegian Colonel) and his ancestors and descendants:
-- Uzma Gamal ( talk) 06:35, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Endorse - he article's creator says here that Astrid E. Kruse Andersen is his/her own mother. That makes Erling O. Kruse his uncle, and this article's deletion was after the book. Mentoz86 ( talk) 08:59, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Endorse Procedure was applied correctly, the nominator has a familial conflict of interest and no new evidence of notability has been presented. A note on the medals. The English version of the article and some Norwegian versions before the current one claimed that Kruse had won the Forsvarets fortjenestemedalje (Armed Forces Medal of Merit) in addition to the five campaign and service medals. However, the citation to the Norwegian Who's Who only mentions the campaign and service medals, and not the Medal of Merit. Thus, the medals for which sources exist show nothing more than that he was a soldier. Dricherby ( talk) 09:17, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Endorse. Nomination basically disputes the underlying notability standards, not the discussion or its inevitable close. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz ( talk) 12:57, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • I'm proud to call Erilng Ove Kruse my uncle! Who would be more qualified to write about him? Probably onely his sons and sisters. I wisited him a couple of months ago, and he told about Svalbard and the war. How he met with Shetlands Larsen and giving support to the smallbouts getting people out of Norway. Shame on you for this delition!! Erling will be 90 this summer! Shame for deliting my mother too! I'm very proud to call late Bjørn G. Andersen and Astrid E. Kruse Andersen my parents. I will not speak for them here because theis lifes speak for them selves! Why is more then one entry from the same family problematic? I can't understand that this is a criteria for delition. Obviously it is so and some of the partisipants here don't want to have "Kruse" at Wiki. Shame on you! Why?? Knuand ( talk) 16:01, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
    • I appreciate your sentimentality for your family, but you have failed to give a rational argument grounded in Wikipedia policy. Your contribution history shows a long pattern of recreating these articles after they're repeatedly deleted with overwhelming consensus. Some things don't belong in an encyclopedia. Your persistence is admirable, but sometimes if you keep on trying it just makes you look worse. Specs112 t c 17:21, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Wikipedia is based on verifiability through reliable sources, not on personal knowledge. Obviously, your family is important to you but what matters on Wikipedia is whether a subject is important to the world at large. Because Wikipedia is not based on personal knowledge but on published sources, you are no more qualified than anyone else. If you can give reliable sources about your uncle (or anyone or anything else) then go ahead and do so: but, without such sources, there can be no article on Wikipedia. Please understand that this is not a vendetta and it is not personal. It is not an insult to not have a Wikipedia article. The reaction would be exactly the same if you wrote articles about my family without providing sources to show that they're notable. As has been said several times, there is no problem with having more than one article about members of a family, provided all are individually notable. Dricherby ( talk) 17:53, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
      • The Jackson family is another good example. Both parents and all nine children have individual articles, in addition to the one on the family itself. But each and every one of them is separately established to meet the project's notability requirements. - TexasAndroid ( talk) 18:54, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • question2, following up my earlier question: has she as a deputy representative actually taken a place in parliamentary deliberations and voting? If so, she's notable--using an analogy of the same standards as we use for athletes, that the people nominally on a team actually have to play in a regular season game, not just be there in reserve. DGG ( talk ) 19:46, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
    • I don't know if this is the right arena for that discussion, but yes she has taken place and this has now been added. Geschichte ( talk) 06:56, 22 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • I do appriciate your concern, and this is (hopefully) not onely my advocacy for family! Hopefully you will se that this is not just a personal vendetta. There are allways a possibility that mistakes have been done. There have been people "out there" trying to erase the "Kruse"-family, and I think this is a good reason for a new revision ... Knuand ( talk) 22:31, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Then, how come, all my entries about the Kruse-family are marked for deletion: Bjørn Kruse and Philip Kruse, are nominated for deletion Jannike Kruse and Even Kruse Skatrud, are redirected: Anine Kruse Skatrud and Benedikte Kruse, or are deleted: Erling O. Kruse, Astrid E. Kruse Andersen and Just Kruse?! Knuand ( talk) 12:13, 23 June 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Because all articles on Wikipedia must obey Wikipedia's policies and people feel that the articles you listed do not. The articles about members of your family are by no means the only articles currently nominated for deletion: hundreds are proposed every week. Dricherby ( talk) 12:25, 23 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • May be I'm slow, but how come, an internationally recognized composer, author and Professor of Composition at the Norwegian Academy of Music, Oslo Bjørn Kruse, are considered to be unfit for an article on Wiki. How come, an entry about the internationally recognized musician and arranger, Assistant Professor at the University of Oslo Even Kruse Skatrud are nominated for delition? Go to the entrys and make up your own mind about these entries - to me it is incomprehensible!! Knuand ( talk) 13:11, 23 June 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Please, just stop. Stop. Read this page: WP:GNG. That will tell you exactly what is required for a subject to be classed as notable and, therefore, suitable for a wikipedia page. Dricherby ( talk) 13:46, 23 June 2012 (UTC) reply
    • I'd encourage that you read this essay. The notability of other people has no bearing whatsoever on this particular discussion. elektrik SHOOS ( talk) 18:12, 23 June 2012 (UTC) reply
    • In point of fact, neither of the two articles mentioned by Knuand above has been nominated for deletion. Dricherby ( talk) 21:00, 23 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • I do appriciate your concern, and I do have red the "WP:GNG" and the essey "Other stuff exists"! I'm on line with this. What I'm adressing is the practice: Too many people are too concerned with deliting other peoples work. I think there has evolved a culture of "outing" others, or taking other contributors down, and especially new ones, like mee. This is a problem you should be more aware of! I don't want to be a "pain in the ass", my agenda is to adress a problem ... Knuand ( talk) 20:11, 23 June 2012 (UTC) reply
I can see the need for someone to do the "clean up" job, and delete none current stuff. But, there might be need for conciderations about how this is carried out! Knuand ( talk) 20:24, 23 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Endorse, the AFD was closed correctly, there is a clear consensus that this gentleman is not notable, within the meaning of that word on Wikipedia. That doesn't mean that he did not serve honourably and professionally, but thousands do, and more is required for an encyclopedia article. Lankiveil ( speak to me) 04:15, 24 June 2012 (UTC). reply
The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it.
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2012_June_20&oldid=1138439135"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
< 2012 June 19
2012 June 21 >

20 June 2012

The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it.
Erling O. Kruse ( talk| | history| logs| links| watch) ( XfD| restore)

I`m impressed! You delete a Norwegian Warhero - congratulations! (... Yes I know, he is norwegian, but ...) Let`s see (to compere): Jørun Drevland (born 15 March 1944) is a Norwegian politician for the Socialist Left Party. She served as a deputy representative to the Norwegian Parliament from Nordland during the term 1993–1997. Agree, she is notable, and she is the mother of the norwegian Rock Star Sivert Høyem (and sister in-laws with the Mayor of Bergen, Norway Trude Drevland), but compared to Erling Kruse she is (sorry) a dwarf! Well - this is not my problem, but sorry to say so, but you make fools og Wikipedia by showing this sort of ignorance! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Knuand ( talk • contribs)

  • Note: Deletion review formatting has been appropriately fixed. I also note that the user recreated the article right after posting this deletion review and making a comment on the AFD after its closure ( [1]). I have speedy deleted the recreation per WP:CSD#G4, but if admin wants to temporarily restore for purposes of this DRV, I certainly will not stand in the way of that. -- MuZemike 21:56, 20 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Closing admin's comment: AfD closed with unanimous consensus to delete. Based on the evicence Kruse fails to meet either the relevant notability essay ( WP:SOLDIER) or the WP:GNG. WP:WAX argument fails as Drevland meets guideline WP:POLITICIAN. Page temporarily restored for the discussion. Note also that the page in question is Erling O. Kruse, not Jusst Kruse, so I have corrected the above appropriately. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:14, 20 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Endorse-No indication that process wasn't followed. DRV is not AfD round two.-- Fyre2387 ( talk • contribs) 22:29, 20 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Endorse per above comments. Unanimous vote to delete by several uninvolved editors, which was properly handled by the deleting admin. This was not an abuse of process. elektrik SHOOS ( talk) 22:37, 20 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Endorse I can't see how that could have closed without deletion. What we need are some reliable independant sources and they appear lacking. I also see that the article has been translated from the Norwegian bokmal wikipedia so if this does get overturned we need to see about attributing this. Spartaz Humbug! 02:08, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment - My impression is that someone is trying to put the Kruse genealogy in English Wikipedia via an article on Erling Ove Kruse (born 10 August 1922 in Oslo; a decorated Norwegian Colonel) and his ancestors and descendants:
-- Uzma Gamal ( talk) 06:35, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Endorse - he article's creator says here that Astrid E. Kruse Andersen is his/her own mother. That makes Erling O. Kruse his uncle, and this article's deletion was after the book. Mentoz86 ( talk) 08:59, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Endorse Procedure was applied correctly, the nominator has a familial conflict of interest and no new evidence of notability has been presented. A note on the medals. The English version of the article and some Norwegian versions before the current one claimed that Kruse had won the Forsvarets fortjenestemedalje (Armed Forces Medal of Merit) in addition to the five campaign and service medals. However, the citation to the Norwegian Who's Who only mentions the campaign and service medals, and not the Medal of Merit. Thus, the medals for which sources exist show nothing more than that he was a soldier. Dricherby ( talk) 09:17, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Endorse. Nomination basically disputes the underlying notability standards, not the discussion or its inevitable close. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz ( talk) 12:57, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • I'm proud to call Erilng Ove Kruse my uncle! Who would be more qualified to write about him? Probably onely his sons and sisters. I wisited him a couple of months ago, and he told about Svalbard and the war. How he met with Shetlands Larsen and giving support to the smallbouts getting people out of Norway. Shame on you for this delition!! Erling will be 90 this summer! Shame for deliting my mother too! I'm very proud to call late Bjørn G. Andersen and Astrid E. Kruse Andersen my parents. I will not speak for them here because theis lifes speak for them selves! Why is more then one entry from the same family problematic? I can't understand that this is a criteria for delition. Obviously it is so and some of the partisipants here don't want to have "Kruse" at Wiki. Shame on you! Why?? Knuand ( talk) 16:01, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
    • I appreciate your sentimentality for your family, but you have failed to give a rational argument grounded in Wikipedia policy. Your contribution history shows a long pattern of recreating these articles after they're repeatedly deleted with overwhelming consensus. Some things don't belong in an encyclopedia. Your persistence is admirable, but sometimes if you keep on trying it just makes you look worse. Specs112 t c 17:21, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Wikipedia is based on verifiability through reliable sources, not on personal knowledge. Obviously, your family is important to you but what matters on Wikipedia is whether a subject is important to the world at large. Because Wikipedia is not based on personal knowledge but on published sources, you are no more qualified than anyone else. If you can give reliable sources about your uncle (or anyone or anything else) then go ahead and do so: but, without such sources, there can be no article on Wikipedia. Please understand that this is not a vendetta and it is not personal. It is not an insult to not have a Wikipedia article. The reaction would be exactly the same if you wrote articles about my family without providing sources to show that they're notable. As has been said several times, there is no problem with having more than one article about members of a family, provided all are individually notable. Dricherby ( talk) 17:53, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
      • The Jackson family is another good example. Both parents and all nine children have individual articles, in addition to the one on the family itself. But each and every one of them is separately established to meet the project's notability requirements. - TexasAndroid ( talk) 18:54, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • question2, following up my earlier question: has she as a deputy representative actually taken a place in parliamentary deliberations and voting? If so, she's notable--using an analogy of the same standards as we use for athletes, that the people nominally on a team actually have to play in a regular season game, not just be there in reserve. DGG ( talk ) 19:46, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
    • I don't know if this is the right arena for that discussion, but yes she has taken place and this has now been added. Geschichte ( talk) 06:56, 22 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • I do appriciate your concern, and this is (hopefully) not onely my advocacy for family! Hopefully you will se that this is not just a personal vendetta. There are allways a possibility that mistakes have been done. There have been people "out there" trying to erase the "Kruse"-family, and I think this is a good reason for a new revision ... Knuand ( talk) 22:31, 21 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Then, how come, all my entries about the Kruse-family are marked for deletion: Bjørn Kruse and Philip Kruse, are nominated for deletion Jannike Kruse and Even Kruse Skatrud, are redirected: Anine Kruse Skatrud and Benedikte Kruse, or are deleted: Erling O. Kruse, Astrid E. Kruse Andersen and Just Kruse?! Knuand ( talk) 12:13, 23 June 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Because all articles on Wikipedia must obey Wikipedia's policies and people feel that the articles you listed do not. The articles about members of your family are by no means the only articles currently nominated for deletion: hundreds are proposed every week. Dricherby ( talk) 12:25, 23 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • May be I'm slow, but how come, an internationally recognized composer, author and Professor of Composition at the Norwegian Academy of Music, Oslo Bjørn Kruse, are considered to be unfit for an article on Wiki. How come, an entry about the internationally recognized musician and arranger, Assistant Professor at the University of Oslo Even Kruse Skatrud are nominated for delition? Go to the entrys and make up your own mind about these entries - to me it is incomprehensible!! Knuand ( talk) 13:11, 23 June 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Please, just stop. Stop. Read this page: WP:GNG. That will tell you exactly what is required for a subject to be classed as notable and, therefore, suitable for a wikipedia page. Dricherby ( talk) 13:46, 23 June 2012 (UTC) reply
    • I'd encourage that you read this essay. The notability of other people has no bearing whatsoever on this particular discussion. elektrik SHOOS ( talk) 18:12, 23 June 2012 (UTC) reply
    • In point of fact, neither of the two articles mentioned by Knuand above has been nominated for deletion. Dricherby ( talk) 21:00, 23 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • I do appriciate your concern, and I do have red the "WP:GNG" and the essey "Other stuff exists"! I'm on line with this. What I'm adressing is the practice: Too many people are too concerned with deliting other peoples work. I think there has evolved a culture of "outing" others, or taking other contributors down, and especially new ones, like mee. This is a problem you should be more aware of! I don't want to be a "pain in the ass", my agenda is to adress a problem ... Knuand ( talk) 20:11, 23 June 2012 (UTC) reply
I can see the need for someone to do the "clean up" job, and delete none current stuff. But, there might be need for conciderations about how this is carried out! Knuand ( talk) 20:24, 23 June 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Endorse, the AFD was closed correctly, there is a clear consensus that this gentleman is not notable, within the meaning of that word on Wikipedia. That doesn't mean that he did not serve honourably and professionally, but thousands do, and more is required for an encyclopedia article. Lankiveil ( speak to me) 04:15, 24 June 2012 (UTC). reply
The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it.
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2012_June_20&oldid=1138439135"

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