The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
Not a prroper application of speedy deletion criteria. As I pointed out at User_talk:CBM#Your_deletion_of_Joy_basu, the criteria cited (A7) explicitly states that it is not to be applied to articles where there is controversy about whether notability has been asserted or which have been put through AfD and kept. Both of these exmptions applied to this article. Concerns about referencing are to be handled at AfD, not by speedy deletion (this article did cite reputable sources to establish notability). I request a overturn as deletion was against established policy regarding speedy deletion. Loom91 21:55, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Fifth, the article had withstood a previous AfD. Seeing this in the edit history should have given anyone pause about using a speedy. And it violates clear policy: from WP:DP, "In practice this means that a page that had a deletion discussion resulting in 'keep' or 'no consensus' should not be speedily deleted." In view of all this, I urge the admin to simply correct his own mistake. DGG ( talk) 17:51, 12 July 2007 (UTC) |
The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
Was placed in a second nomination for AfD one day after the first AFD was closed as no consensus. First AFD is here, second is here. I have no opinion, so I am abstaining from any discussion. Dennis The Tiger ( Rawr and stuff) 20:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
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The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
No consensus for deletion. Opinion was evenly divided between Evolution/Creationism regulars (who were all for keeping) and CFD regulars (who were all for deletion). On a request for reconsideration, the closing Admin refused, claiming that the "delete" side had the stronger arguments, but the "keep" side dispute this claim, the basis for which is insufficiently clear-cut to count as anything more than the closing Admin's personal opinion.
Hrafn42 17:29, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Hrafn42 18:01, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
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The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
This is in response to a article that was originally put up for deletion by Kariteh and the subsequent refusal to delete it. I would like to reopen the discussion to either put it up for deletion or at least reflect errors I beleive are prevalent in the article discussed here and related articles connected with it. I'll start with a quote from the deletion discussion on June 27, 2007. reliable sources for this being considered a series by fans include the following three professional reviews: [3] And here is my response. This site is by no means staffed by professionals (with the excpetion of Kurt) almost all the "reviews/overviews" are written by dedicated fans, I should know as I wrote for him and the site. As I've pointed out in the discussion pages on both Gaia series and Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games there is no official proof regarding these loose connections as a "trilogy or series" of games that are loosely related only by thematic element alone. If deletion isn't warranted, by the very least commenting that the HG101 article was "Fan Written" and expresses the limited research and opinions of the article writer has to be considered and subsequently shown in the related articles, otherwise it would be akin to saying this is cold, hard, indisputable proof that this associated link is undeniable proof, and as I was slated to originally write that article I would never make that assumption based on the relative lack of facts pointing to any connections with those games, there is no such thing as the "Soul Blazer Trilogy", or even the "Soul Blazer Saga" / "Gaia Series" at the very least changes need to be made to reflect this point in the related articles, instead as Kariteh pointed out, all the information presented as Fact, is indeed assumption based on erroneous information gathered off the internet at other incorrect fansites. I can say these "facts" are not checked throughouly on the articles on HG101, but only to the best of their ability by the volunteer staff who offer their time to write these articles out of the love for the games alone and nothing more. A quick check of the message boards of the site will proove my point to its fullest. Anyway due what you will, but I truly ask that if nothing more the articles are edited and cleaned up to show what is fact and not mere speculation and fan assumption. Last note, even though some games have "code names" given to them within development, doesn't mean they are specifically part of a certain series (this is in reference to the above statement about Illusion of Gaia and Terranigma being known internally as Soul Blazer 2/3 respectively) and as such some older video game magazines such as Electronic Gaming Monthly were not known for their veracious fact checking in the early days and were known to call a game by a incorrect name, which someone has mistakenly called it for many years since and created such errors like these two mentioned here. And in that spirit I would hope that something is done to correct these errors, so the Wikipedia pages are correct or at least point out that these are not undisputed facts only what is (erronoeously) believed to be the long held "truth" regarding these games, but which is in fact the same recycled misinformation over and over again, which people are led to beleive is the 100% truth, due to years of fallacy and error. Thanks. BLang30 14:46, 11 July 2007 (UTC) |
The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
The original article, Fran Merida, was created and deleted several times, using the rationale CSD G4. That section states: "Recreation of deleted material. A copy, by any title, of a page that was deleted via a deletion discussion or deletion review, provided that the copy is substantially identical to the deleted version and that any revisions made clearly do not address the reasons for which the page was deleted". Now when you compare the article that I created with the previous ones, there is a big difference - for example, the revision that was ultimately deleted in AFD consisted of an infobox and the following sentence: "Francisco Merida Perez (born March 4 1990) is a footballer, currently playing for Arsenal." The version I created, on the other hand, had reliable sources (including Sky Sports, an independent, reliable source) and also I feel that I asserted notability - but in any case it was significantly different from the version that was shot down in AFD, in my opinion. I think that if the article is relisted on AFD, I can provide sufficient arguments that the player is notable, but in any case it should not have been speedied. ugen64 08:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
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The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
I don't like putting up deletion reviews, but sometimes "no consensus" closes need more of a justification. There is a majority consensus for delete even if you were just to count !votes. But, alone, the discussions for delete rely on more tangible reasons (or interpretation of said) and, hence, show a stronger consensus for removal of the list even if they weren't a numeric majority. There were two legitimate "weak keeps", but the other "keep" !votes consisted of WP:INTERESTING, WP:ILIKEIT and "why delete it?" This list should have been deleted, and put with all its predecessors in the list of songs graveyard. Bulldog123 00:28, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
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The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
Not a prroper application of speedy deletion criteria. As I pointed out at User_talk:CBM#Your_deletion_of_Joy_basu, the criteria cited (A7) explicitly states that it is not to be applied to articles where there is controversy about whether notability has been asserted or which have been put through AfD and kept. Both of these exmptions applied to this article. Concerns about referencing are to be handled at AfD, not by speedy deletion (this article did cite reputable sources to establish notability). I request a overturn as deletion was against established policy regarding speedy deletion. Loom91 21:55, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Fifth, the article had withstood a previous AfD. Seeing this in the edit history should have given anyone pause about using a speedy. And it violates clear policy: from WP:DP, "In practice this means that a page that had a deletion discussion resulting in 'keep' or 'no consensus' should not be speedily deleted." In view of all this, I urge the admin to simply correct his own mistake. DGG ( talk) 17:51, 12 July 2007 (UTC) |
The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
Was placed in a second nomination for AfD one day after the first AFD was closed as no consensus. First AFD is here, second is here. I have no opinion, so I am abstaining from any discussion. Dennis The Tiger ( Rawr and stuff) 20:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
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The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
No consensus for deletion. Opinion was evenly divided between Evolution/Creationism regulars (who were all for keeping) and CFD regulars (who were all for deletion). On a request for reconsideration, the closing Admin refused, claiming that the "delete" side had the stronger arguments, but the "keep" side dispute this claim, the basis for which is insufficiently clear-cut to count as anything more than the closing Admin's personal opinion.
Hrafn42 17:29, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Hrafn42 18:01, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
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The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
This is in response to a article that was originally put up for deletion by Kariteh and the subsequent refusal to delete it. I would like to reopen the discussion to either put it up for deletion or at least reflect errors I beleive are prevalent in the article discussed here and related articles connected with it. I'll start with a quote from the deletion discussion on June 27, 2007. reliable sources for this being considered a series by fans include the following three professional reviews: [3] And here is my response. This site is by no means staffed by professionals (with the excpetion of Kurt) almost all the "reviews/overviews" are written by dedicated fans, I should know as I wrote for him and the site. As I've pointed out in the discussion pages on both Gaia series and Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games there is no official proof regarding these loose connections as a "trilogy or series" of games that are loosely related only by thematic element alone. If deletion isn't warranted, by the very least commenting that the HG101 article was "Fan Written" and expresses the limited research and opinions of the article writer has to be considered and subsequently shown in the related articles, otherwise it would be akin to saying this is cold, hard, indisputable proof that this associated link is undeniable proof, and as I was slated to originally write that article I would never make that assumption based on the relative lack of facts pointing to any connections with those games, there is no such thing as the "Soul Blazer Trilogy", or even the "Soul Blazer Saga" / "Gaia Series" at the very least changes need to be made to reflect this point in the related articles, instead as Kariteh pointed out, all the information presented as Fact, is indeed assumption based on erroneous information gathered off the internet at other incorrect fansites. I can say these "facts" are not checked throughouly on the articles on HG101, but only to the best of their ability by the volunteer staff who offer their time to write these articles out of the love for the games alone and nothing more. A quick check of the message boards of the site will proove my point to its fullest. Anyway due what you will, but I truly ask that if nothing more the articles are edited and cleaned up to show what is fact and not mere speculation and fan assumption. Last note, even though some games have "code names" given to them within development, doesn't mean they are specifically part of a certain series (this is in reference to the above statement about Illusion of Gaia and Terranigma being known internally as Soul Blazer 2/3 respectively) and as such some older video game magazines such as Electronic Gaming Monthly were not known for their veracious fact checking in the early days and were known to call a game by a incorrect name, which someone has mistakenly called it for many years since and created such errors like these two mentioned here. And in that spirit I would hope that something is done to correct these errors, so the Wikipedia pages are correct or at least point out that these are not undisputed facts only what is (erronoeously) believed to be the long held "truth" regarding these games, but which is in fact the same recycled misinformation over and over again, which people are led to beleive is the 100% truth, due to years of fallacy and error. Thanks. BLang30 14:46, 11 July 2007 (UTC) |
The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
The original article, Fran Merida, was created and deleted several times, using the rationale CSD G4. That section states: "Recreation of deleted material. A copy, by any title, of a page that was deleted via a deletion discussion or deletion review, provided that the copy is substantially identical to the deleted version and that any revisions made clearly do not address the reasons for which the page was deleted". Now when you compare the article that I created with the previous ones, there is a big difference - for example, the revision that was ultimately deleted in AFD consisted of an infobox and the following sentence: "Francisco Merida Perez (born March 4 1990) is a footballer, currently playing for Arsenal." The version I created, on the other hand, had reliable sources (including Sky Sports, an independent, reliable source) and also I feel that I asserted notability - but in any case it was significantly different from the version that was shot down in AFD, in my opinion. I think that if the article is relisted on AFD, I can provide sufficient arguments that the player is notable, but in any case it should not have been speedied. ugen64 08:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
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The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
I don't like putting up deletion reviews, but sometimes "no consensus" closes need more of a justification. There is a majority consensus for delete even if you were just to count !votes. But, alone, the discussions for delete rely on more tangible reasons (or interpretation of said) and, hence, show a stronger consensus for removal of the list even if they weren't a numeric majority. There were two legitimate "weak keeps", but the other "keep" !votes consisted of WP:INTERESTING, WP:ILIKEIT and "why delete it?" This list should have been deleted, and put with all its predecessors in the list of songs graveyard. Bulldog123 00:28, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
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The above is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |