![]() | This page in a nutshell: Should the post-1967 Jewish localities in Jerusalem be principally titled as "neighborhoods" or "settlements"? What do the reliable sources say? What is the predominant usage? |
Jewish Neighborhoods versus Israeli Settlements of Jerusalem
It should be stated that Palastinians, and those who support their political agenda, are inclined to name every Jewish town, village or neighbourhood in Israel as a " Jewish settelment". This comes from a political agenda, that sees the state of Israel and the Israeli and Jewish right to a political self deffinition, as illegitimate. This view, which gained popularity among Palastinien and Arab politics in the last two decades, wishes to see the whole Middle east as a pure muslim region, and defies the existence of any non Muslim sovereign entity. These views are very common in the Muslim world, and are no longer exlusive to a fanatic few. This agenda was one of the main factors that incited the palastinien recent "Inttifada", and still today inflames the Muslim and Arab struggle against Israel (which Arab politicians and Muslim activists call "The Zionist state").
For excessive reverts on related articles ( Pisgat Ze'ev, Gilo, Ramot, Har Homa, Neve Yaakov), Colourinthemeaning ( talk · contribs), ILike2BeAnonymous ( talk · contribs), Robertert ( talk · contribs), Gilabrand ( talk · contribs), and possibly other users upon examination (needless to say, anyone else reverting on this set of articles, is at risk of being added), are, for the next month, placed on a one-(talk page obligatory)-rr on any Jerusalem-related entry. We are not going to have this multiple-entry revert war go on, indefinitely. I gotta step out now, but I will give this formula further thought later. Comment below, but please keep them brief. Long winded debate will be aggressively redacted. Many thanks. El_C 23:29, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
1)Fairness: Colourinthemeaning has violated the 3 revert policy 3 times on Gilo after unsuccessfully trying to block another user, resulting in two protections to his new version while I've let his changes to the original version stand a number of times while continuing the discussion. ILike2BeAnonymous hasn't joined the conversation at all. Colour also namecalls (vandal, nationalist) and as I showed below contradicts his sources. Treating us all the same is not fair.
2)Discussion: The summary above (Jewish Neighborhoods versus Israeli Settlements of Jerusalem) is not correct. I restored the original version of the pages that said these places are neighborhoods that are widely considered Israeli settlements, while Colourinthemeaning is arguing that not only do many people say that these places are Israeli settlements, but that the same people say they "aren't" neighbourhoods.
3)Sources: His own sources Globalsecurity and Peace Now[ [1]][ [2]], contradict him and all refer to them as neighborhoods, as does even Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat[ [3]]. Erekat and Peace Now believe the neighborhoods are also settlements while Globalsecurity mentions that their status is disputed. No one says they are independent cities or towns instead of neighborhoods.
I wish someone could put in some time to read through all this. I know that it isn't the most simple dispute but it is straightforward. Most of the discussion is here -- Robertert ( talk) 10:08, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I am honestly insulted that you think i am an agenda-pusher, when I have no agenda to push except that of fairness, NPOV and the general enhancement of wikipedia as an encylopedia based on facts. My reverts were made because of excessive reverts made by Gilabrand, Robertert and annonymous IPs which severly degraded the content and white-washed the facts on the page on Gilo, as well as others. One such example was replacing the header 'Shooting Incident' with the incredibly loaded term 'Palestinian Violence.' Further, a long list of problems I had with the articles, including removed content were ignored. Please see Talk:Gilo.
Gilabrand, Robertert, can you tell me what is wrong with leading with both the terms 'Israeli Settlement and neighborhood of East Jerusalem'? Both are disputed terms, the latter more so as you have admitted to me, so I am really curious as to what the problem could be, and how replacing that with simply 'neighborhood of Jerusalem' can at all be considered an improvement in general encyclopedic and factual terms or in terms of taking a NPOV? Colourinthemeaning ( talk) 16:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
If you call it a settlement, why do you locate it in Israel's expanded East Jerusalem? It seems to be a contradiction in terms. This settlement is located in the West Bank according to the UN, as they neither recognise Israel presence in East Jerusalem or Jerusalem's expanded borders which include Pisgat Zeev. It is therefore only located in East Jerusalem according to Israel, who do not view it as a settlement. I feel that it should be described as a neighbourhood in the first line as that is what it is in reality. Live there and you receive a council tax bill from the Jerusalem Municipally whether you like it or not. The international view can also be mentioned. As to the location, Northern Jerusalem is more accurate and is described as such in the Peace Now link provided. Chesdovi ( talk) 14:24, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
It seems to me that a community that was purchased and inhabited by Jews before 1948 (Neve Yaakov) should not be labelled "captured by Israel" in 1967. If you must include this type of reference, it seems to me that the correct term would be "recaptured". Howie63 ( talk) 04:21, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
The United States has often said that East Jerusalem is not the west bank, and the U.S congress has wanted to move its embassy to east Jerusalem. We have sources saying that CNN and other networks have said that they don't want to refer to the places as settlements. Obviously it's disputed whether or not they're settlements or not. Articles must present the NPOV version. Therefore , you can't say "they are settlements". You can explain it though in detail. And it does, although in a POV sense still because it's very much disputed, it's not an international opinion that they're settlements. So unless you want to balance that too, there's no dispute here. Obviously they are neighborhoods which is not disputed by anyone except you... stop your disruptions in the future. 216.165.3.215 ( talk) 19:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Firstly, from a source which is about as middle-of-the-road mainstream neutral as you can get:
Israel and the Palestinians: Key terms
The BBC Governors' independent panel report on the impartiality of BBC coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict recommended that the BBC should make public an abbreviated version of its journalists' guide to facts and terminology.
[...]
OCCUPIED TERRITORIES/OCCUPATION
The general phrase "occupied territories" refers to East Jerusalem, the West Bank and strictly speaking the Golan Heights. However, it is not usually understood to refer to the Golan Heights (unless it is in a story specifically on the 1967 war or Syrian-Israeli relations).
It is advisable to avoid trying to find another formula, although the phrase "occupied West Bank" can also be used.
Under international law, Israel is still the occupying power in Gaza, although it no longer has a permanent military presence there. See that section for our use of language.
Try not to confuse the phrase "occupied territories" with Palestinian Land or Palestinian Territories. (See those sections for the reasons why.)
The Israeli government's preferred phrase to describe the West Bank and Gaza Strip is "disputed territories" and it is reasonable to use this when it is clear that we are referring to or explaining its position.
[...]
SETTLEMENTS
Settlements are residential areas built by Israelis in the occupied territories. They are illegal under international law: this is the position of the UN Security Council and the UK government among others - although Israel rejects this.
When writing a story about settlements we can aim, where relevant, to include context to the effect that "all settlements in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, are considered illegal under international law, though Israel disputes this".
This is an impeccable reliable source showing that it is fine to refer to settlements, including those in East Jerusalem, as such. In fact the whole BBC journalists' guide would be an excellent starting point for establishing a set of neutral terms for Wikipedia to use.
Seccondly, we should not be seduced into pretending that "neighborhood" is a nice, friendly-sounding neutral term that Wikipedia should use in its neutral voice. It is a weasel word, dishonestly used in order to cover up and whitewash the illegal nature of the settlements. Whenever it is used in the context of the settlements, it should be made clear that it is a partisan term preferred by the settlers and their suporters.
-- NSH001 ( talk) 10:58, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
While the BBC's coverage of Israel is has been shown to be skewed against the Jewish state, the point is that the BBC's list of terms is hardly what one could call the be all and end all of definitions for highly controversial Middle Eastern political concepts. Not only that, but NSH001 seems to wish to commit a WP:SYNTH violation by taking two definitions and merging them into one. Neighborhoods of Jerusalem are just that: neighborhoods of Jerusalem. Furthermore, most reliable sources seem to call them "neighborhoods" and not "settlements." Tiamut's claim that the Washington Post only refers to them as neighborhoods because the U.S. government refers to them that way is outrageous and implies that the U.S. does not have a free press and that the Post would ordinarily agree with the Hamas position that neighborhoods in Jerusalem are "settlements." Wikipedia operates by looking for what is verifiable, not what is the most ideological position of one side or the other. This is why Tel Aviv is listed as being a city in Israel and not in "occupied Palestine" as Hamas defines it. -- GHcool ( talk) 17:06, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Greetings, appropriately enough, I received a note to look over here. I happen to be the moderator at a WikiProject to help quiet Isr-Pales editing disputes. I don't have time myself to moderate this discussion, so let me make some suggestions.
Hope this is helpful. If you feel it's helpful, or not, you're welcome to give me constructive feedback on my Talk page. Pls be concise there. Thanks muchly. HG | Talk 12:04, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Should the post-1967 Jewish localities in Jerusalem be principally titled as "neighborhoods" or "settlements"? What do the reliable sources say? What is the predominant usage?
I love these arguments at Wikipedia, because they are living confirmation of Henry Kissinger's quip: "The reason academic discussions are so vicious is that the stakes are so low."
What is obvious to any observer not involved in the mudslinging is that these areas are both neighborhoods and settlements. Reliable sources can be found for calling them either. There are good logical arguments behind both. Each term also encapsulates a mountain of connotations, political views, and insinuations.
For this reason, there can be no resolution to this dispute that will leave both sides satisfied. One option is to diligently eschew the use of either term, and call these places "regions" or "areas" or "sectors". A better solution, one that is totally unacceptable in Wikipedia but which I proposed in my essay User:Ravpapa/The Politicization of Wikipedia is to allow, at least temporarily, two parallel articles as a way toward resolution of the conflict.
But, of course, the preferred course is for the current participants to keep slugging away at each other until thousands of words of argument have been archived. So have at it, and let the spectators enjoy! -- Ravpapa ( talk) 05:59, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
[19] nobody has any problem with a discussion on whether these neighborhoods can also be considered as settlements. Some will say yes - it's beyond the green line. Some will say no - they were annexed to Jerusalem, places existed before 1948 (Neve Yaacov), these are not seperate communitues but part of a city with no distiniction on the ground, and Jerusalem was supposed to be a mandated area and so on... all kinds of arguments. The point is that they have to be NPOV'd, and so won't be in the lead sentence as a statement of fact... I really think the argument is moot and the only one still advocating this extreme pov is colourinthemeaning, and he should cease. 216.165.2.182 ( talk) 21:21, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
other sources that were brought - for example Washington Times a left wing newspaper. [20] calls it neighborhoods and say DISPUTED east jerusalem. the ultimate proof was brought in this source - an opinion piece against the legality of the neighborhoods, the person writes "For news outlets to report on Gilo simply as a Jerusalem neighborhood under attack, without explaining its legal status, confuses rather than clarifies the issues involved" - no problem, explain this legal status (of course its only one POV so show both). the article proves that both CNN and New York times called it neighborhoods. 216.165.2.182 ( talk) 21:27, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
NPOV means representing all significant POVs. It does not mean censoring a majority POV so as not to offend those holding a minority POV. Please read WP:NPOV.
Also, we need sources discusses the usage of the terms (secondary sources) and not sources that just use the terms (primary sources). Please read WP:OR. Tiamut talk 21:30, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
and we have exactly what you asked for. CNN and New York Times say: use neighborhood not settlement. Bring reliable sources, see WP:RS, that say "use settlement" not neighborhoods.
Because we have the first and not the second, the WP:NPOV for the leading sentence is neighborhood, not settlement. Settlement discussion is welcomed to follow, and does already follow. So the whole argument doesn't make sense. The word settlement is already mentioned in all the articles, again and again. colourmeaning is just trying to push the word into the first sentence, what kind of goal is that? what kind of justification can there be to it? I hope you're not feeling the same way, because it's an eccentric view to try to push the word into the first sentence instead of the second or third, when it's clearly a POV word that a source like CNN prefers not to use! in this context. 216.165.2.182 ( talk) 22:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
I saw this dispute mentioned in the Judea-Samaria case now at Arbcom, and I'm just weighing in here briefly and agnostically. It strikes me as a legitimate line of argument to say many mainstream RSs call these "neighborhoods," so the term is legit. If the term is indeed dominant among mainstream RSs – and I have no idea if it is, though it certainly appears to be more common than "Judea" and "Samaria" are – then that's hard to overcome on NPOV grounds. What does not seem to me a legitimate argument, however, is to say whether these are settlements is debated, but no one questions that they're neighborhoods, appealing to the neutral dictionary sense of the latter word. The Israeli use of the word "neighborhood" in this context is described by many reliable sources as loaded, both from a political and legal point of view (legal because during any "settlement freeze" Israel can continue to build or expand what it calls "neighborhoods"). These terms are recognized as having ideological and legal implications in this context, and it just won't do to argue along the lines of Merriam Webster defines "neighborhood" as such and such, and these are obviously examples of such and such. And it's perverse to present Saeb Erekat's statement that "As far as we're concerned, Har Homa, Givat Ze'ev and Ma'ale Adumim are not part of Jerusalem and also Jewish neighborhoods like Ramot and Gilo are settlements for all intents and purposes" as demonstrating the neutrality of the term "neighborhoods."-- G-Dett ( talk) 19:34, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Per your request for sources:
Moreover, the term "natural growth" was never precisely defined, and the vague nature of the term has allowed Israel to continue to expand the settlements while avoiding direct confrontation with the United States administration...Under the banner of "natural growth," Israel has established new settlements under the guise of "new neighborhoods" of existing settlements. Land Grab: Israel's Settlement Policy in the West Bank. B'tselem, the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories.
1.5 Regarding 1.2.b "No new settlements." This term has no meaning in terms of stopping construction; rather it is a term which Israel uses for administrative purposes. This loophole allows Israel to continue construction in existing settlements or already constructed areas, many of them which could expand several times their current size as noted above in 1.4. Moreover, this loophole permits Israel to undertake construction of a new settlement area but under the guise of designating it as a "neighborhood" of an existing settlement. The settlements of Alon and Nofei Prat are examples of creating new settlements while designating them as a neighborhood of the settlement Kfar Adumim.[9] Talmon and its satellites settlements of B, C, and D offer an example of the types of semantics of not designating construction as new settlements but rather as a neighborhood or extension of an existing settlement. HC Paper 522-II House of Commons International Development Committee: The Humanitarian and Development Situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, Volume II. By Great Britain. Parliament. House of Commons. International Development Committee, Great Britain. Parliament. House of Commons. International Development Committee. (Session 2007-08)
On the extent of "greater Jerusalem," see the official maps published by B'Tselem (The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories) in the report by Yehezkel Lein and Eyal Weizman, Gezel Ha-Karka'ot, Hebrew edition, May 2002, revealing that the boundaries of the "neighborhoods of Jerusalem" extend virtually to Jericho. Middle East Illusions. By Noam Chomsky. Rowman & Littlefield, 2004
While Israelis, and even members of the peace camp, accept the annexation of East Jerusalem and the construction of Jewish settlements ("neighborhoods")... Who's left in Israel? By Dan Leon. Sussex University Press, 2004
These settlements, or neighborhoods, as Jerusalem city planners refer to them, have completely altered the landscape of East Jerusalem. Israeli settlement policy in Jerusalem: facts on the ground. By Allison B. Hodgkins, PASSIA, 1998
Ma'ale Adumim is described as one of the "neighborhoods of Jerusalem" in US reporting...Settlements such as Gilo, in occupied East Jerusalem, were consistently referred to as "Jewish neighborhoods." By not acknowledging that Gilo and similar sites are settlements, reports obscure the fact that these "neighborhoods" are illegal and grave violations of the Geneva Convention and the human rights of the occupied population. The new Intifada. By Roane Carey, Noam Chomsky. Verso, 2001
When most Israeli Jews speak of settlements, they think of distant outposts established by religious zealots. They often exclude from their definition the largest and most populous colonies like Ma'ale Adumim, Gilo, and Gush Etzion, which they simply view as "neighborhoods" or suburbs of Jerusalem. Yet these are the very settlements that have destroyed the contiguity of the West Bank and cut Palestinians off from Jerusalem and from each other. One Country: A Bold Proposal by Ali Abunimah. Macmillan, 2007
Palestinians from the town of Bet-Jalla shot at Gilo — officially a Jerusalem neighborhood, actually a settlement — critically wounding border policeman... Intifada Hits the Headlines by Danny Dor. Indiana University Press, 2004
The Jewish population of the dozen so-called neighborhoods built and annexed to Jerusalem on land that Israel occupied in 1967, estimated at an additional 177,000... Pens and Swords: How the American Mainstream Media Report the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. By Marda Dunsky. Columbia University Press, 2008.
Palestinians consider the neighborhoods in Jerusalem that were built after 1967 to be settlements, and the Israelis consider them neighborhoods. But you don't have time to explain in every story why the Palestinians consider them settlements. Journalists try to be fair. You want to get both sides of the story even if it comes down to what something is called. You're trying to make sure that you're not favoring one side or you're not using language that only describes one side's worldview of something. (Ann Lolordo, Baltimore Sun, quoted in Dunsky above)
Contested terms like "occupation" disappeared from all three newspapers, "occupied lands" became "disputed lands" and "Israeli settlements" were often labeled "Israeli neighborhoods." Civilian Israelis were sometimes called "dovish" or "peaceniks," but these terms were almost never applied to Palestinians. Such word choices suggest a consonance with the Israeli way of framing events. How Bias Shapes the News: Challenging the New York Times' Status as the Newspaper of Record on the Middle East. By Barbie Zelizer. Published by Journalism: Theory, Practice, and Criticism, December 2002.
More to come. -- G-Dett ( talk) 21:02, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
The "neighborhood" of Gilo
This may be partly due to campaigns by pressure groups within the U.S. Take the case of Gilo, an Israeli settlement that some pro-settler groups have used as a focal point for their campaigns to eliminate the term "settlements" in favor of "neighborhoods." In September 2001, CNN changed its policy on how to characterize Gilo: "We refer to Gilo as 'a Jewish neighborhood on the outskirts of Jerusalem, built on land occupied by Israel in 1967.' We don't refer to it as a settlement," said the order from CNN headquarters. CNN denies that its decision was a concession to outside pressure, but according to veteran Middle East reporter Robert Fisk (London Independent, 9/3/01), sources within the network said that the switch followed "months of internal debate in CNN, which has been constantly criticized by CNN Watch, honestreporting.com and other pro-Israeli pressure groups."
I'd appreciate it if you two would move this discussion over to one of your talk pages. It is off topic. Thanks. -- GHcool ( talk) 00:11, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
A story in yesterday's New York Times ("U.N. Seeks End to Razing of Homes in East Jerusalem") touches on the terminological dispute over "neighborhood" vs. "settlement," and uses a third word ("development") to get around the problem:
The Palestinian population of East Jerusalem, which stood at about 66,000 in 1967, is now about 250,000. In addition, more than 195,000 Israelis live in Jewish developments — referred to as “neighborhoods” by the Israelis and as “settlements” by the United Nations — in East Jerusalem.
That's an idea.-- G-Dett ( talk) 20:05, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm having a hard time believing G-Dett doesn't understand that the issue is Israel refering them to as neighborhoods meaning referring to them as neighborhoods and NOT (also) as settlements. How do I know this? Btw, if you don't understand read the sentence again. It has a dual meaning. Read it again a few times until you understand. Also think. Think... why does the word neighborhood come up? Because they're afraid that if it's a neighborhood of somewhere like Jerusalem then it won't be condemned like other places beyond the Green Line... if say neighborhood and settlements then they wouldn't care. Colourinthemeaning doesn't care then. But the word is so heavily POV because Israelis btw don't even know which neighborhoods are on which side of the green line, and CNN for example says its controversial explicitly, thenwe can't put it at the beginning without qualifying it. Source so you understand, again:
Again, Gilo's status as an illegal settlement does not justify the Palestinian killings of civilians there, but it is central to understanding why Gilo is such a hot spot. For news outlets to report on Gilo simply as a Jerusalem neighborhood under attack, without explaining its legal status, is a gross distortion-- especially since the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, which has claimed so many thousands of lives, is at bottom about who should control the land. Settlements have been a central point of contention throughout.
I suppose perhaps if you're so into a nationalist view to attack Israel you can't understand it so you write silly stuff. Recap:
Ynhockey, two sections up you asked me for sources describing "neighborhoods" as a loaded term, and then contested the sources I provided on various grounds. I was a little surprised at some of your RS-objections, because it seemed to me quite natural that sources objecting to Israeli terminology would be pro-Palestinian, or politically leftist, etc. Put another way, I can see objecting to PASSIA as a source for a straight-forward factual or historical claim presented in Wikipedia's neutral voice (just as an editor of my political persuasions might object to the Middle East Quarterly being used in this way), but it seems a little strange to me to object to citing groups like this on a talk-page to demonstrate that certain terms are politically contested.
At any rate, it got me wondering what sources have been brought by you or other editors to demonstrate that settlements is contested. (I don't mean primary sources using "neighborhoods" instead, I mean secondary sources discussing the term "settlements.") If this is staring me right in the face and I'm missing it, I apologize, but can you point me to them? Many thanks, -- G-Dett ( talk) 22:33, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
At end of meeting with US president in capital, prime minister makes it clear Israel will not halt building plan in east Jerusalem despite American objection. 'We made it clear Jerusalem's status is different than that of the settlements,' Olmert says. [22]
PASSIA never described neighborhoods as a loaded term - I suppose that's another lie. "These settlements, or neighborhoods, as Jerusalem city planners refer to them, have completely altered the landscape of East Jerusalem." this you mean? where do you see it as a loaded term? the loaded issue is not saying they're settlements. of course city planners referred to them as neighborhoods. they built them. again read all above if you still fail to understand. Look at the reference you hold so deal and the word SIMPLY again, or the use of the word neighborhoods in the Baltimore Sun. 216.165.2.182 ( talk) 23:21, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Meanwhile...this is from a piece which ran in American Journalism Review in July 2004:
Nothing is examined as carefully as language, with both sides fighting for terminology that casts their claim in the best possible light. Pro-Palestinian sites want media outlets to refer to "Israeli colonizers" instead of "Israeli settlers" and to talk about "death squads" instead of "military operations." Meanwhile, Israel's defenders push for the use of "terrorists" instead of "militants," "neighborhoods" instead of "settlements" and "focused interventions" instead of "targeted assassinations." In response, some news organizations go to elaborate lengths to come up with the most neutral-sounding formulations. The Philadelphia Inquirer has even invited in a rabbi and a linguistics professor to help determine what terminology to adopt. (Matusow, Barbara, "Caught in the Crossfire," American Journalism Review, July 2004)
Enough, then, of this discredited line of argument that only one of the two terms – "settlement" and "neighborhood" – is disputed.-- G-Dett ( talk) 17:08, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
1. Instead of the proper designation under international law of "illegal settlements," the media refer to Abu Gheim as a "Jewish neighborhood" (e.g., NPR, 2/23/97), as if it were a natural extension of white picket fences, and not an exclusive Jewish-only building complex on an uninhabited hilltop. – Husseini, Sam. "What's in a Name?: In Jerusalem Story, Terminology Takes Sides." Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, September-October 1997.
2. The roads designated for the Jewish settlers are well maintained, well lit, continuous and uninterrupted; they tie the network of Jewish "neighborhoods" and "settlements" – all of them in reality colonies forbidden by international law – to each other and to Israel. – Makdisi, Saree. "For a Secular Democratic State." The Nation, June 18 2007.
3. A defensive and apologist vocabulary serves to perpetuate the injustices: Israel’s occupation of Palestine is described as an Arab-Jewish “conflict”; Palestinian (never Jewish) violence is attributed to Palestinian (never Jewish) hatred. Israel’s Jewish chauvinist theocracy is called a “democracy,” the occupied territories are “disputed,” illegal settlements are “neighborhoods” and their deliberate illegal expansion on occupied land is “natural growth.” –Jabr, Samah, "Language: A Tool of Oppression and Liberation." Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, August 2008, pages 19-20.
4. Settlements in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem, illegal in international law, are now often referred to in the media euphemestically as "neighbourhoods." Gilo, a settlement in the suburbs of Jerusalem, is a common example, referred to routinely as a "Jewish neighborhood" in the U.S. media. Likewise, the swath of Jewish settlements around Jerusalem is called "Jewish neighborhoods." In May 2002 the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz reported that the Israeli media had been prohibited from using the terms "settlements" or "settlers." CNN had already adopted a policy of referring to Gilo not as a settlement but rather as "a Jewish neighborhood on the outskirts of Jerusalem, built on land occupied by Israel. CNN had been under fairly intense pressure from a number of pressure groups to adopt this policy. –Peteet, Julie. "Words as Interventions: Naming in the Palestine-Israel Conflict." Third World Quarterly, Vol. 26 No.1, Routledge.
Excuse me for butting in again, but I don't understand people's insistence on the specific words "neighborhood" and "settlement". By settlement, I suppose you mean land occupied by Israel in 1967 and developed for residential use. So why not just say so? Gilo is built on land occupied by Israel in the 1967 war.
What is so magical about the specific word settlement? -- Ravpapa ( talk) 04:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I basically agree with you, Ravpapa. Since the terms are disputed, the simple NPOV solution is to avoid using either in Wikipedia's neutral voice. The only thing I'd add here is that a reference to the terminological dispute belongs in the lead.-- G-Dett ( talk) 15:39, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
This is a response to .-- G-Dett's comment above: Yes, you are right that the terminology dispute is not just between Wikipedia editors. But, as you rightly point out, the terminological dispute "reflects their disputed status – which is the key to their notability." So why are we focusing on the argument over words? Let's focus on the argument over policy. It seems to me that a direct statement of the dispute ("... on land occupied in 1967, considered illegal, blablabla") is a lot clearer than " some call it settlement, others call it neighborhood." -- Ravpapa ( talk) 03:57, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
A combination of the two suggestions seems to be the most neutral, "X is a housing development on the outskirts of Jerusalem built on land occupied in 1967, considered illegal, blablabla; its status as either a "settlement" or a "neighborhood" is disputed." untwirl( talk) 14:59, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I agree with this approach, too. untwirl( talk) 13:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
![]() | This page in a nutshell: Should the post-1967 Jewish localities in Jerusalem be principally titled as "neighborhoods" or "settlements"? What do the reliable sources say? What is the predominant usage? |
Jewish Neighborhoods versus Israeli Settlements of Jerusalem
It should be stated that Palastinians, and those who support their political agenda, are inclined to name every Jewish town, village or neighbourhood in Israel as a " Jewish settelment". This comes from a political agenda, that sees the state of Israel and the Israeli and Jewish right to a political self deffinition, as illegitimate. This view, which gained popularity among Palastinien and Arab politics in the last two decades, wishes to see the whole Middle east as a pure muslim region, and defies the existence of any non Muslim sovereign entity. These views are very common in the Muslim world, and are no longer exlusive to a fanatic few. This agenda was one of the main factors that incited the palastinien recent "Inttifada", and still today inflames the Muslim and Arab struggle against Israel (which Arab politicians and Muslim activists call "The Zionist state").
For excessive reverts on related articles ( Pisgat Ze'ev, Gilo, Ramot, Har Homa, Neve Yaakov), Colourinthemeaning ( talk · contribs), ILike2BeAnonymous ( talk · contribs), Robertert ( talk · contribs), Gilabrand ( talk · contribs), and possibly other users upon examination (needless to say, anyone else reverting on this set of articles, is at risk of being added), are, for the next month, placed on a one-(talk page obligatory)-rr on any Jerusalem-related entry. We are not going to have this multiple-entry revert war go on, indefinitely. I gotta step out now, but I will give this formula further thought later. Comment below, but please keep them brief. Long winded debate will be aggressively redacted. Many thanks. El_C 23:29, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
1)Fairness: Colourinthemeaning has violated the 3 revert policy 3 times on Gilo after unsuccessfully trying to block another user, resulting in two protections to his new version while I've let his changes to the original version stand a number of times while continuing the discussion. ILike2BeAnonymous hasn't joined the conversation at all. Colour also namecalls (vandal, nationalist) and as I showed below contradicts his sources. Treating us all the same is not fair.
2)Discussion: The summary above (Jewish Neighborhoods versus Israeli Settlements of Jerusalem) is not correct. I restored the original version of the pages that said these places are neighborhoods that are widely considered Israeli settlements, while Colourinthemeaning is arguing that not only do many people say that these places are Israeli settlements, but that the same people say they "aren't" neighbourhoods.
3)Sources: His own sources Globalsecurity and Peace Now[ [1]][ [2]], contradict him and all refer to them as neighborhoods, as does even Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat[ [3]]. Erekat and Peace Now believe the neighborhoods are also settlements while Globalsecurity mentions that their status is disputed. No one says they are independent cities or towns instead of neighborhoods.
I wish someone could put in some time to read through all this. I know that it isn't the most simple dispute but it is straightforward. Most of the discussion is here -- Robertert ( talk) 10:08, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I am honestly insulted that you think i am an agenda-pusher, when I have no agenda to push except that of fairness, NPOV and the general enhancement of wikipedia as an encylopedia based on facts. My reverts were made because of excessive reverts made by Gilabrand, Robertert and annonymous IPs which severly degraded the content and white-washed the facts on the page on Gilo, as well as others. One such example was replacing the header 'Shooting Incident' with the incredibly loaded term 'Palestinian Violence.' Further, a long list of problems I had with the articles, including removed content were ignored. Please see Talk:Gilo.
Gilabrand, Robertert, can you tell me what is wrong with leading with both the terms 'Israeli Settlement and neighborhood of East Jerusalem'? Both are disputed terms, the latter more so as you have admitted to me, so I am really curious as to what the problem could be, and how replacing that with simply 'neighborhood of Jerusalem' can at all be considered an improvement in general encyclopedic and factual terms or in terms of taking a NPOV? Colourinthemeaning ( talk) 16:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
If you call it a settlement, why do you locate it in Israel's expanded East Jerusalem? It seems to be a contradiction in terms. This settlement is located in the West Bank according to the UN, as they neither recognise Israel presence in East Jerusalem or Jerusalem's expanded borders which include Pisgat Zeev. It is therefore only located in East Jerusalem according to Israel, who do not view it as a settlement. I feel that it should be described as a neighbourhood in the first line as that is what it is in reality. Live there and you receive a council tax bill from the Jerusalem Municipally whether you like it or not. The international view can also be mentioned. As to the location, Northern Jerusalem is more accurate and is described as such in the Peace Now link provided. Chesdovi ( talk) 14:24, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
It seems to me that a community that was purchased and inhabited by Jews before 1948 (Neve Yaakov) should not be labelled "captured by Israel" in 1967. If you must include this type of reference, it seems to me that the correct term would be "recaptured". Howie63 ( talk) 04:21, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
The United States has often said that East Jerusalem is not the west bank, and the U.S congress has wanted to move its embassy to east Jerusalem. We have sources saying that CNN and other networks have said that they don't want to refer to the places as settlements. Obviously it's disputed whether or not they're settlements or not. Articles must present the NPOV version. Therefore , you can't say "they are settlements". You can explain it though in detail. And it does, although in a POV sense still because it's very much disputed, it's not an international opinion that they're settlements. So unless you want to balance that too, there's no dispute here. Obviously they are neighborhoods which is not disputed by anyone except you... stop your disruptions in the future. 216.165.3.215 ( talk) 19:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Firstly, from a source which is about as middle-of-the-road mainstream neutral as you can get:
Israel and the Palestinians: Key terms
The BBC Governors' independent panel report on the impartiality of BBC coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict recommended that the BBC should make public an abbreviated version of its journalists' guide to facts and terminology.
[...]
OCCUPIED TERRITORIES/OCCUPATION
The general phrase "occupied territories" refers to East Jerusalem, the West Bank and strictly speaking the Golan Heights. However, it is not usually understood to refer to the Golan Heights (unless it is in a story specifically on the 1967 war or Syrian-Israeli relations).
It is advisable to avoid trying to find another formula, although the phrase "occupied West Bank" can also be used.
Under international law, Israel is still the occupying power in Gaza, although it no longer has a permanent military presence there. See that section for our use of language.
Try not to confuse the phrase "occupied territories" with Palestinian Land or Palestinian Territories. (See those sections for the reasons why.)
The Israeli government's preferred phrase to describe the West Bank and Gaza Strip is "disputed territories" and it is reasonable to use this when it is clear that we are referring to or explaining its position.
[...]
SETTLEMENTS
Settlements are residential areas built by Israelis in the occupied territories. They are illegal under international law: this is the position of the UN Security Council and the UK government among others - although Israel rejects this.
When writing a story about settlements we can aim, where relevant, to include context to the effect that "all settlements in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, are considered illegal under international law, though Israel disputes this".
This is an impeccable reliable source showing that it is fine to refer to settlements, including those in East Jerusalem, as such. In fact the whole BBC journalists' guide would be an excellent starting point for establishing a set of neutral terms for Wikipedia to use.
Seccondly, we should not be seduced into pretending that "neighborhood" is a nice, friendly-sounding neutral term that Wikipedia should use in its neutral voice. It is a weasel word, dishonestly used in order to cover up and whitewash the illegal nature of the settlements. Whenever it is used in the context of the settlements, it should be made clear that it is a partisan term preferred by the settlers and their suporters.
-- NSH001 ( talk) 10:58, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
While the BBC's coverage of Israel is has been shown to be skewed against the Jewish state, the point is that the BBC's list of terms is hardly what one could call the be all and end all of definitions for highly controversial Middle Eastern political concepts. Not only that, but NSH001 seems to wish to commit a WP:SYNTH violation by taking two definitions and merging them into one. Neighborhoods of Jerusalem are just that: neighborhoods of Jerusalem. Furthermore, most reliable sources seem to call them "neighborhoods" and not "settlements." Tiamut's claim that the Washington Post only refers to them as neighborhoods because the U.S. government refers to them that way is outrageous and implies that the U.S. does not have a free press and that the Post would ordinarily agree with the Hamas position that neighborhoods in Jerusalem are "settlements." Wikipedia operates by looking for what is verifiable, not what is the most ideological position of one side or the other. This is why Tel Aviv is listed as being a city in Israel and not in "occupied Palestine" as Hamas defines it. -- GHcool ( talk) 17:06, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Greetings, appropriately enough, I received a note to look over here. I happen to be the moderator at a WikiProject to help quiet Isr-Pales editing disputes. I don't have time myself to moderate this discussion, so let me make some suggestions.
Hope this is helpful. If you feel it's helpful, or not, you're welcome to give me constructive feedback on my Talk page. Pls be concise there. Thanks muchly. HG | Talk 12:04, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Should the post-1967 Jewish localities in Jerusalem be principally titled as "neighborhoods" or "settlements"? What do the reliable sources say? What is the predominant usage?
I love these arguments at Wikipedia, because they are living confirmation of Henry Kissinger's quip: "The reason academic discussions are so vicious is that the stakes are so low."
What is obvious to any observer not involved in the mudslinging is that these areas are both neighborhoods and settlements. Reliable sources can be found for calling them either. There are good logical arguments behind both. Each term also encapsulates a mountain of connotations, political views, and insinuations.
For this reason, there can be no resolution to this dispute that will leave both sides satisfied. One option is to diligently eschew the use of either term, and call these places "regions" or "areas" or "sectors". A better solution, one that is totally unacceptable in Wikipedia but which I proposed in my essay User:Ravpapa/The Politicization of Wikipedia is to allow, at least temporarily, two parallel articles as a way toward resolution of the conflict.
But, of course, the preferred course is for the current participants to keep slugging away at each other until thousands of words of argument have been archived. So have at it, and let the spectators enjoy! -- Ravpapa ( talk) 05:59, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
[19] nobody has any problem with a discussion on whether these neighborhoods can also be considered as settlements. Some will say yes - it's beyond the green line. Some will say no - they were annexed to Jerusalem, places existed before 1948 (Neve Yaacov), these are not seperate communitues but part of a city with no distiniction on the ground, and Jerusalem was supposed to be a mandated area and so on... all kinds of arguments. The point is that they have to be NPOV'd, and so won't be in the lead sentence as a statement of fact... I really think the argument is moot and the only one still advocating this extreme pov is colourinthemeaning, and he should cease. 216.165.2.182 ( talk) 21:21, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
other sources that were brought - for example Washington Times a left wing newspaper. [20] calls it neighborhoods and say DISPUTED east jerusalem. the ultimate proof was brought in this source - an opinion piece against the legality of the neighborhoods, the person writes "For news outlets to report on Gilo simply as a Jerusalem neighborhood under attack, without explaining its legal status, confuses rather than clarifies the issues involved" - no problem, explain this legal status (of course its only one POV so show both). the article proves that both CNN and New York times called it neighborhoods. 216.165.2.182 ( talk) 21:27, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
NPOV means representing all significant POVs. It does not mean censoring a majority POV so as not to offend those holding a minority POV. Please read WP:NPOV.
Also, we need sources discusses the usage of the terms (secondary sources) and not sources that just use the terms (primary sources). Please read WP:OR. Tiamut talk 21:30, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
and we have exactly what you asked for. CNN and New York Times say: use neighborhood not settlement. Bring reliable sources, see WP:RS, that say "use settlement" not neighborhoods.
Because we have the first and not the second, the WP:NPOV for the leading sentence is neighborhood, not settlement. Settlement discussion is welcomed to follow, and does already follow. So the whole argument doesn't make sense. The word settlement is already mentioned in all the articles, again and again. colourmeaning is just trying to push the word into the first sentence, what kind of goal is that? what kind of justification can there be to it? I hope you're not feeling the same way, because it's an eccentric view to try to push the word into the first sentence instead of the second or third, when it's clearly a POV word that a source like CNN prefers not to use! in this context. 216.165.2.182 ( talk) 22:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
I saw this dispute mentioned in the Judea-Samaria case now at Arbcom, and I'm just weighing in here briefly and agnostically. It strikes me as a legitimate line of argument to say many mainstream RSs call these "neighborhoods," so the term is legit. If the term is indeed dominant among mainstream RSs – and I have no idea if it is, though it certainly appears to be more common than "Judea" and "Samaria" are – then that's hard to overcome on NPOV grounds. What does not seem to me a legitimate argument, however, is to say whether these are settlements is debated, but no one questions that they're neighborhoods, appealing to the neutral dictionary sense of the latter word. The Israeli use of the word "neighborhood" in this context is described by many reliable sources as loaded, both from a political and legal point of view (legal because during any "settlement freeze" Israel can continue to build or expand what it calls "neighborhoods"). These terms are recognized as having ideological and legal implications in this context, and it just won't do to argue along the lines of Merriam Webster defines "neighborhood" as such and such, and these are obviously examples of such and such. And it's perverse to present Saeb Erekat's statement that "As far as we're concerned, Har Homa, Givat Ze'ev and Ma'ale Adumim are not part of Jerusalem and also Jewish neighborhoods like Ramot and Gilo are settlements for all intents and purposes" as demonstrating the neutrality of the term "neighborhoods."-- G-Dett ( talk) 19:34, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Per your request for sources:
Moreover, the term "natural growth" was never precisely defined, and the vague nature of the term has allowed Israel to continue to expand the settlements while avoiding direct confrontation with the United States administration...Under the banner of "natural growth," Israel has established new settlements under the guise of "new neighborhoods" of existing settlements. Land Grab: Israel's Settlement Policy in the West Bank. B'tselem, the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories.
1.5 Regarding 1.2.b "No new settlements." This term has no meaning in terms of stopping construction; rather it is a term which Israel uses for administrative purposes. This loophole allows Israel to continue construction in existing settlements or already constructed areas, many of them which could expand several times their current size as noted above in 1.4. Moreover, this loophole permits Israel to undertake construction of a new settlement area but under the guise of designating it as a "neighborhood" of an existing settlement. The settlements of Alon and Nofei Prat are examples of creating new settlements while designating them as a neighborhood of the settlement Kfar Adumim.[9] Talmon and its satellites settlements of B, C, and D offer an example of the types of semantics of not designating construction as new settlements but rather as a neighborhood or extension of an existing settlement. HC Paper 522-II House of Commons International Development Committee: The Humanitarian and Development Situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, Volume II. By Great Britain. Parliament. House of Commons. International Development Committee, Great Britain. Parliament. House of Commons. International Development Committee. (Session 2007-08)
On the extent of "greater Jerusalem," see the official maps published by B'Tselem (The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories) in the report by Yehezkel Lein and Eyal Weizman, Gezel Ha-Karka'ot, Hebrew edition, May 2002, revealing that the boundaries of the "neighborhoods of Jerusalem" extend virtually to Jericho. Middle East Illusions. By Noam Chomsky. Rowman & Littlefield, 2004
While Israelis, and even members of the peace camp, accept the annexation of East Jerusalem and the construction of Jewish settlements ("neighborhoods")... Who's left in Israel? By Dan Leon. Sussex University Press, 2004
These settlements, or neighborhoods, as Jerusalem city planners refer to them, have completely altered the landscape of East Jerusalem. Israeli settlement policy in Jerusalem: facts on the ground. By Allison B. Hodgkins, PASSIA, 1998
Ma'ale Adumim is described as one of the "neighborhoods of Jerusalem" in US reporting...Settlements such as Gilo, in occupied East Jerusalem, were consistently referred to as "Jewish neighborhoods." By not acknowledging that Gilo and similar sites are settlements, reports obscure the fact that these "neighborhoods" are illegal and grave violations of the Geneva Convention and the human rights of the occupied population. The new Intifada. By Roane Carey, Noam Chomsky. Verso, 2001
When most Israeli Jews speak of settlements, they think of distant outposts established by religious zealots. They often exclude from their definition the largest and most populous colonies like Ma'ale Adumim, Gilo, and Gush Etzion, which they simply view as "neighborhoods" or suburbs of Jerusalem. Yet these are the very settlements that have destroyed the contiguity of the West Bank and cut Palestinians off from Jerusalem and from each other. One Country: A Bold Proposal by Ali Abunimah. Macmillan, 2007
Palestinians from the town of Bet-Jalla shot at Gilo — officially a Jerusalem neighborhood, actually a settlement — critically wounding border policeman... Intifada Hits the Headlines by Danny Dor. Indiana University Press, 2004
The Jewish population of the dozen so-called neighborhoods built and annexed to Jerusalem on land that Israel occupied in 1967, estimated at an additional 177,000... Pens and Swords: How the American Mainstream Media Report the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. By Marda Dunsky. Columbia University Press, 2008.
Palestinians consider the neighborhoods in Jerusalem that were built after 1967 to be settlements, and the Israelis consider them neighborhoods. But you don't have time to explain in every story why the Palestinians consider them settlements. Journalists try to be fair. You want to get both sides of the story even if it comes down to what something is called. You're trying to make sure that you're not favoring one side or you're not using language that only describes one side's worldview of something. (Ann Lolordo, Baltimore Sun, quoted in Dunsky above)
Contested terms like "occupation" disappeared from all three newspapers, "occupied lands" became "disputed lands" and "Israeli settlements" were often labeled "Israeli neighborhoods." Civilian Israelis were sometimes called "dovish" or "peaceniks," but these terms were almost never applied to Palestinians. Such word choices suggest a consonance with the Israeli way of framing events. How Bias Shapes the News: Challenging the New York Times' Status as the Newspaper of Record on the Middle East. By Barbie Zelizer. Published by Journalism: Theory, Practice, and Criticism, December 2002.
More to come. -- G-Dett ( talk) 21:02, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
The "neighborhood" of Gilo
This may be partly due to campaigns by pressure groups within the U.S. Take the case of Gilo, an Israeli settlement that some pro-settler groups have used as a focal point for their campaigns to eliminate the term "settlements" in favor of "neighborhoods." In September 2001, CNN changed its policy on how to characterize Gilo: "We refer to Gilo as 'a Jewish neighborhood on the outskirts of Jerusalem, built on land occupied by Israel in 1967.' We don't refer to it as a settlement," said the order from CNN headquarters. CNN denies that its decision was a concession to outside pressure, but according to veteran Middle East reporter Robert Fisk (London Independent, 9/3/01), sources within the network said that the switch followed "months of internal debate in CNN, which has been constantly criticized by CNN Watch, honestreporting.com and other pro-Israeli pressure groups."
I'd appreciate it if you two would move this discussion over to one of your talk pages. It is off topic. Thanks. -- GHcool ( talk) 00:11, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
A story in yesterday's New York Times ("U.N. Seeks End to Razing of Homes in East Jerusalem") touches on the terminological dispute over "neighborhood" vs. "settlement," and uses a third word ("development") to get around the problem:
The Palestinian population of East Jerusalem, which stood at about 66,000 in 1967, is now about 250,000. In addition, more than 195,000 Israelis live in Jewish developments — referred to as “neighborhoods” by the Israelis and as “settlements” by the United Nations — in East Jerusalem.
That's an idea.-- G-Dett ( talk) 20:05, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm having a hard time believing G-Dett doesn't understand that the issue is Israel refering them to as neighborhoods meaning referring to them as neighborhoods and NOT (also) as settlements. How do I know this? Btw, if you don't understand read the sentence again. It has a dual meaning. Read it again a few times until you understand. Also think. Think... why does the word neighborhood come up? Because they're afraid that if it's a neighborhood of somewhere like Jerusalem then it won't be condemned like other places beyond the Green Line... if say neighborhood and settlements then they wouldn't care. Colourinthemeaning doesn't care then. But the word is so heavily POV because Israelis btw don't even know which neighborhoods are on which side of the green line, and CNN for example says its controversial explicitly, thenwe can't put it at the beginning without qualifying it. Source so you understand, again:
Again, Gilo's status as an illegal settlement does not justify the Palestinian killings of civilians there, but it is central to understanding why Gilo is such a hot spot. For news outlets to report on Gilo simply as a Jerusalem neighborhood under attack, without explaining its legal status, is a gross distortion-- especially since the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, which has claimed so many thousands of lives, is at bottom about who should control the land. Settlements have been a central point of contention throughout.
I suppose perhaps if you're so into a nationalist view to attack Israel you can't understand it so you write silly stuff. Recap:
Ynhockey, two sections up you asked me for sources describing "neighborhoods" as a loaded term, and then contested the sources I provided on various grounds. I was a little surprised at some of your RS-objections, because it seemed to me quite natural that sources objecting to Israeli terminology would be pro-Palestinian, or politically leftist, etc. Put another way, I can see objecting to PASSIA as a source for a straight-forward factual or historical claim presented in Wikipedia's neutral voice (just as an editor of my political persuasions might object to the Middle East Quarterly being used in this way), but it seems a little strange to me to object to citing groups like this on a talk-page to demonstrate that certain terms are politically contested.
At any rate, it got me wondering what sources have been brought by you or other editors to demonstrate that settlements is contested. (I don't mean primary sources using "neighborhoods" instead, I mean secondary sources discussing the term "settlements.") If this is staring me right in the face and I'm missing it, I apologize, but can you point me to them? Many thanks, -- G-Dett ( talk) 22:33, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
At end of meeting with US president in capital, prime minister makes it clear Israel will not halt building plan in east Jerusalem despite American objection. 'We made it clear Jerusalem's status is different than that of the settlements,' Olmert says. [22]
PASSIA never described neighborhoods as a loaded term - I suppose that's another lie. "These settlements, or neighborhoods, as Jerusalem city planners refer to them, have completely altered the landscape of East Jerusalem." this you mean? where do you see it as a loaded term? the loaded issue is not saying they're settlements. of course city planners referred to them as neighborhoods. they built them. again read all above if you still fail to understand. Look at the reference you hold so deal and the word SIMPLY again, or the use of the word neighborhoods in the Baltimore Sun. 216.165.2.182 ( talk) 23:21, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Meanwhile...this is from a piece which ran in American Journalism Review in July 2004:
Nothing is examined as carefully as language, with both sides fighting for terminology that casts their claim in the best possible light. Pro-Palestinian sites want media outlets to refer to "Israeli colonizers" instead of "Israeli settlers" and to talk about "death squads" instead of "military operations." Meanwhile, Israel's defenders push for the use of "terrorists" instead of "militants," "neighborhoods" instead of "settlements" and "focused interventions" instead of "targeted assassinations." In response, some news organizations go to elaborate lengths to come up with the most neutral-sounding formulations. The Philadelphia Inquirer has even invited in a rabbi and a linguistics professor to help determine what terminology to adopt. (Matusow, Barbara, "Caught in the Crossfire," American Journalism Review, July 2004)
Enough, then, of this discredited line of argument that only one of the two terms – "settlement" and "neighborhood" – is disputed.-- G-Dett ( talk) 17:08, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
1. Instead of the proper designation under international law of "illegal settlements," the media refer to Abu Gheim as a "Jewish neighborhood" (e.g., NPR, 2/23/97), as if it were a natural extension of white picket fences, and not an exclusive Jewish-only building complex on an uninhabited hilltop. – Husseini, Sam. "What's in a Name?: In Jerusalem Story, Terminology Takes Sides." Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, September-October 1997.
2. The roads designated for the Jewish settlers are well maintained, well lit, continuous and uninterrupted; they tie the network of Jewish "neighborhoods" and "settlements" – all of them in reality colonies forbidden by international law – to each other and to Israel. – Makdisi, Saree. "For a Secular Democratic State." The Nation, June 18 2007.
3. A defensive and apologist vocabulary serves to perpetuate the injustices: Israel’s occupation of Palestine is described as an Arab-Jewish “conflict”; Palestinian (never Jewish) violence is attributed to Palestinian (never Jewish) hatred. Israel’s Jewish chauvinist theocracy is called a “democracy,” the occupied territories are “disputed,” illegal settlements are “neighborhoods” and their deliberate illegal expansion on occupied land is “natural growth.” –Jabr, Samah, "Language: A Tool of Oppression and Liberation." Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, August 2008, pages 19-20.
4. Settlements in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem, illegal in international law, are now often referred to in the media euphemestically as "neighbourhoods." Gilo, a settlement in the suburbs of Jerusalem, is a common example, referred to routinely as a "Jewish neighborhood" in the U.S. media. Likewise, the swath of Jewish settlements around Jerusalem is called "Jewish neighborhoods." In May 2002 the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz reported that the Israeli media had been prohibited from using the terms "settlements" or "settlers." CNN had already adopted a policy of referring to Gilo not as a settlement but rather as "a Jewish neighborhood on the outskirts of Jerusalem, built on land occupied by Israel. CNN had been under fairly intense pressure from a number of pressure groups to adopt this policy. –Peteet, Julie. "Words as Interventions: Naming in the Palestine-Israel Conflict." Third World Quarterly, Vol. 26 No.1, Routledge.
Excuse me for butting in again, but I don't understand people's insistence on the specific words "neighborhood" and "settlement". By settlement, I suppose you mean land occupied by Israel in 1967 and developed for residential use. So why not just say so? Gilo is built on land occupied by Israel in the 1967 war.
What is so magical about the specific word settlement? -- Ravpapa ( talk) 04:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I basically agree with you, Ravpapa. Since the terms are disputed, the simple NPOV solution is to avoid using either in Wikipedia's neutral voice. The only thing I'd add here is that a reference to the terminological dispute belongs in the lead.-- G-Dett ( talk) 15:39, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
This is a response to .-- G-Dett's comment above: Yes, you are right that the terminology dispute is not just between Wikipedia editors. But, as you rightly point out, the terminological dispute "reflects their disputed status – which is the key to their notability." So why are we focusing on the argument over words? Let's focus on the argument over policy. It seems to me that a direct statement of the dispute ("... on land occupied in 1967, considered illegal, blablabla") is a lot clearer than " some call it settlement, others call it neighborhood." -- Ravpapa ( talk) 03:57, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
A combination of the two suggestions seems to be the most neutral, "X is a housing development on the outskirts of Jerusalem built on land occupied in 1967, considered illegal, blablabla; its status as either a "settlement" or a "neighborhood" is disputed." untwirl( talk) 14:59, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I agree with this approach, too. untwirl( talk) 13:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)