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January 7

Category:LGBT actors by medium

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete & restore previous categories. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 19:05, 17 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Newly created category scheme of dubious necessity. LGBT actors aren't really usefully defined by "medium" distinctions -- that is, being an LGBT television actor isn't meaningfully different from being an LGBT film actor or an LGBT stage actor, because the differences between those things are unconnected to sexuality or gender identity -- and in the contemporary media landscape, there really aren't very many actors who only act in one type of media in the first place: in the modern era, when by far the majority of LGBT actors have been able to be out at all, it's quite rare for people to do only film acting or only television acting or only stage acting or only voice acting, and instead actors quite frequently do two, three or even all four of those things. But that leads to category bloat, because now instead of being categorized as just an "American gay actor", a person may have to be in up to five separate categories for the various intersections of nationality, sexuality and medium: "American LGBT actors", "gay film actors", "gay television actors", "gay stage actors" and "gay voice actors", now requiring five categories instead of one.
Furthermore, the editor who created these has simultaneously been emptying the existing "Nationality gay actors" and "Nationality lesbian actresses" trees out of process, arbitrarily moving performers out of those categories and back to their general "LGBT" parents without establishing any consensus to zap any of those subcategories, at the same time as implementing these as a replacement.
CFD has already established a consensus, per Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 November 21#Category:American gay actors, that categories like Category:Gay actors and Category:Lesbian actresses were getting large enough to need diffusion into subcategories -- but the "by nationality" scheme that already existed is a much more useful and relevant distinction than this, and certainly should not be getting replaced with this by a single user without establishing any sort of consensus for that first.
Some caution may be needed to ensure that people don't get entirely pulled out of the LGBT actors tree, so some manual upmerging to parent categories may be necessary — but since the nationality categories should never have been emptied out without discussion in the first place, reverting people who were formerly in those back into them, and then upmerging just the remaining stragglers, should take precedence over a blanket upmerge. Bearcat ( talk) 22:38, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Your reasoning there amounts to "because I said so", and fails to provide any actual reasons why subdividing this tree by a film vs. television vs. stage distinction, which has nothing to do with sexual orientation or gender identity at all, should be preferred over subdividing this tree by nationality. Bearcat ( talk) 13:13, 8 January 2023 (UTC) reply
  • Merge all back to equivalent actor category. It is in the nature of an acting career that a person will take what roles are offered, so that they may appear in film in one year, TV later, and on stage on another occasion. Splitting actors by medium does not work. Peterkingiron ( talk) 16:41, 8 January 2023 (UTC) reply
  • Comment The only instance that I'm aware of that we do categorize by medium for actors is based on nationality ( Category:Actors by medium by nationality), for child actors ( Category:Child actors by medium) and by gender ( Category:Actresses by medium, Category:Male actors by medium) although why it is done in these instances, I have no clue. I think Giovanni 0331, the editor who created these categories, needs to understand the nature of categories on Wikipedia is a hierarchy and new categories need to fit into the existing category structure. Creating brand new branches and going off in a different direction is tempting for editors just getting started working in categories but it can be seen as disruptive, especially when there is an effort to delete long-existing categories.
Discussions at CFD often seem to refer to past CFD decisions on the same topic to guide current disputes. Undoubtedly, this probably seems limiting and confining to editors who wish to go off and create new ways of organizing content but the nature of CFD is inherently conservative. To blaze new trails, one has to have a very, VERY good reason for why subjects should be organized differently than they are currently organized and so far, no such reason has been offered. I hope this doesn't squelch the spirit of the category creator as we can always use more thoughtful participants in CFD discussions. Liz Read! Talk! 19:31, 10 January 2023 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sports venues in northern Minnesota

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 20:46, 15 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Category:Northern Minnesota is an imprecise region with no head category. All articles are already in appropriate subcategories, therefore deletion is more appropriate than merging. User:Namiba 17:07, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Television by language of Nigeria

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge/delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 20:47, 15 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: These category layers are not useful, as they only hold one sub-cat. I could not find any other content to add to this hierarchy. – Fayenatic London 12:41, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
  • We can recreate the category if and when other content becomes available. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:00, 11 January 2023 (UTC) reply
  • Support as nominated — this is a tricky one. There may someday be more articles about more languages. But the actual politics of the country seem to be preventing multi-lingual development. Television still isn't as cheap and easy as radio.
    William Allen Simpson ( talk) 09:36, 15 January 2023 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Podcasts directed by Sophia Mendonça

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 20:47, 15 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: There is no hierarchy of podcasts by director. The one member page is already in other podcast categories. User:kj cheetham apparently intended to include this at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2022_December_30#Category:Sophia_Mendonça. – Fayenatic London 11:27, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Germany LGBT actors

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: immediate rename, remedial to mistyped Speedy rename. – Fayenatic London 12:01, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: This is a minor typo that needs to be remedied as quickly as possible as the "y" in Germany needs to be removed. Giovanni 0331 ( talk) 10:21, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ludum Dare video games

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 15#Category:Ludum Dare video games

Category:Fellows of the Tanzania Academy of Sciences

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 20:49, 15 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: There is currently no article for Tanzania Academy of Sciences. I'm wondering if this category should exist when the related article currently does not exist yet. MrLinkinPark333 ( talk) 00:15, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
  • This is a national award of the highest prestige. It is a pergect example why Africa is underrepresented, what there is does not fit in with what we expect of "our own" subjects that does have a public with an interest to write about it. So no, bad idea. GerardM ( talk) 08:05, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, it is hardly mentioned in the articles that are in this category. Marcocapelle ( talk) 08:26, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
  • Delete for Now Clicked through several articles and none of the ones I chose mentioned this association. GerardM is right about the lack of African content so, if/when a main article and biography articles defined by the association appear, happy to revisit. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 20:36, 14 January 2023 (UTC) reply
  • Delete for Now
    William Allen Simpson ( talk) 09:28, 15 January 2023 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_January_7&oldid=1134250259"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
< January 6 January 8 >

January 7

Category:LGBT actors by medium

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete & restore previous categories. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 19:05, 17 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Newly created category scheme of dubious necessity. LGBT actors aren't really usefully defined by "medium" distinctions -- that is, being an LGBT television actor isn't meaningfully different from being an LGBT film actor or an LGBT stage actor, because the differences between those things are unconnected to sexuality or gender identity -- and in the contemporary media landscape, there really aren't very many actors who only act in one type of media in the first place: in the modern era, when by far the majority of LGBT actors have been able to be out at all, it's quite rare for people to do only film acting or only television acting or only stage acting or only voice acting, and instead actors quite frequently do two, three or even all four of those things. But that leads to category bloat, because now instead of being categorized as just an "American gay actor", a person may have to be in up to five separate categories for the various intersections of nationality, sexuality and medium: "American LGBT actors", "gay film actors", "gay television actors", "gay stage actors" and "gay voice actors", now requiring five categories instead of one.
Furthermore, the editor who created these has simultaneously been emptying the existing "Nationality gay actors" and "Nationality lesbian actresses" trees out of process, arbitrarily moving performers out of those categories and back to their general "LGBT" parents without establishing any consensus to zap any of those subcategories, at the same time as implementing these as a replacement.
CFD has already established a consensus, per Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 November 21#Category:American gay actors, that categories like Category:Gay actors and Category:Lesbian actresses were getting large enough to need diffusion into subcategories -- but the "by nationality" scheme that already existed is a much more useful and relevant distinction than this, and certainly should not be getting replaced with this by a single user without establishing any sort of consensus for that first.
Some caution may be needed to ensure that people don't get entirely pulled out of the LGBT actors tree, so some manual upmerging to parent categories may be necessary — but since the nationality categories should never have been emptied out without discussion in the first place, reverting people who were formerly in those back into them, and then upmerging just the remaining stragglers, should take precedence over a blanket upmerge. Bearcat ( talk) 22:38, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Your reasoning there amounts to "because I said so", and fails to provide any actual reasons why subdividing this tree by a film vs. television vs. stage distinction, which has nothing to do with sexual orientation or gender identity at all, should be preferred over subdividing this tree by nationality. Bearcat ( talk) 13:13, 8 January 2023 (UTC) reply
  • Merge all back to equivalent actor category. It is in the nature of an acting career that a person will take what roles are offered, so that they may appear in film in one year, TV later, and on stage on another occasion. Splitting actors by medium does not work. Peterkingiron ( talk) 16:41, 8 January 2023 (UTC) reply
  • Comment The only instance that I'm aware of that we do categorize by medium for actors is based on nationality ( Category:Actors by medium by nationality), for child actors ( Category:Child actors by medium) and by gender ( Category:Actresses by medium, Category:Male actors by medium) although why it is done in these instances, I have no clue. I think Giovanni 0331, the editor who created these categories, needs to understand the nature of categories on Wikipedia is a hierarchy and new categories need to fit into the existing category structure. Creating brand new branches and going off in a different direction is tempting for editors just getting started working in categories but it can be seen as disruptive, especially when there is an effort to delete long-existing categories.
Discussions at CFD often seem to refer to past CFD decisions on the same topic to guide current disputes. Undoubtedly, this probably seems limiting and confining to editors who wish to go off and create new ways of organizing content but the nature of CFD is inherently conservative. To blaze new trails, one has to have a very, VERY good reason for why subjects should be organized differently than they are currently organized and so far, no such reason has been offered. I hope this doesn't squelch the spirit of the category creator as we can always use more thoughtful participants in CFD discussions. Liz Read! Talk! 19:31, 10 January 2023 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sports venues in northern Minnesota

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 20:46, 15 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Category:Northern Minnesota is an imprecise region with no head category. All articles are already in appropriate subcategories, therefore deletion is more appropriate than merging. User:Namiba 17:07, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Television by language of Nigeria

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge/delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 20:47, 15 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: These category layers are not useful, as they only hold one sub-cat. I could not find any other content to add to this hierarchy. – Fayenatic London 12:41, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
  • We can recreate the category if and when other content becomes available. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:00, 11 January 2023 (UTC) reply
  • Support as nominated — this is a tricky one. There may someday be more articles about more languages. But the actual politics of the country seem to be preventing multi-lingual development. Television still isn't as cheap and easy as radio.
    William Allen Simpson ( talk) 09:36, 15 January 2023 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Podcasts directed by Sophia Mendonça

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 20:47, 15 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: There is no hierarchy of podcasts by director. The one member page is already in other podcast categories. User:kj cheetham apparently intended to include this at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2022_December_30#Category:Sophia_Mendonça. – Fayenatic London 11:27, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Germany LGBT actors

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: immediate rename, remedial to mistyped Speedy rename. – Fayenatic London 12:01, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: This is a minor typo that needs to be remedied as quickly as possible as the "y" in Germany needs to be removed. Giovanni 0331 ( talk) 10:21, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ludum Dare video games

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 15#Category:Ludum Dare video games

Category:Fellows of the Tanzania Academy of Sciences

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 20:49, 15 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: There is currently no article for Tanzania Academy of Sciences. I'm wondering if this category should exist when the related article currently does not exist yet. MrLinkinPark333 ( talk) 00:15, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
  • This is a national award of the highest prestige. It is a pergect example why Africa is underrepresented, what there is does not fit in with what we expect of "our own" subjects that does have a public with an interest to write about it. So no, bad idea. GerardM ( talk) 08:05, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, it is hardly mentioned in the articles that are in this category. Marcocapelle ( talk) 08:26, 7 January 2023 (UTC) reply
  • Delete for Now Clicked through several articles and none of the ones I chose mentioned this association. GerardM is right about the lack of African content so, if/when a main article and biography articles defined by the association appear, happy to revisit. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 20:36, 14 January 2023 (UTC) reply
  • Delete for Now
    William Allen Simpson ( talk) 09:28, 15 January 2023 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_January_7&oldid=1134250259"

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