April 18
Category:Ministry of International Trade and Industry (Malaysia)
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 26#Category:Ministry of International Trade and Industry (Malaysia)
Category:Mackinnons
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 10:47, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary level of categorization for an article for one player already in a players' subcategory scheme. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars Talk to me 19:59, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 03:43, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:SMALLCAT. Also, delete its subcategory Category:Mackinnons players for the same reason. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 12:16, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete both — tagged per Joseph2302, otherwise it would be orphaned.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 08:00, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
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Category:Fictional dolphins
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Fiction about dolphins. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 10:46, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Category is intended for characters, but is populated solely with media featuring dolphins, which should probably be its own category. (Oinkers42) ( talk) 16:00, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
- Support - I didn't see any article about a particular dolphin in this category; likewise in its (alleged - I am fairly sure that orcas are not dolphins) subcat Category:Fictional orcas, which should be added to the nom. (We have Category:Films about dolphins etc.) Oculi ( talk) 17:05, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
- Upmerge to Category:Fiction about dolphins. The dolphin tie-in is defining. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 23:59, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/ STUFF DONE 19:26, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per RevelationDirect. There is no reason to remove the articles from the tree of Category:Fiction about dolphins. Marcocapelle ( talk) 03:46, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- Upmerge per RevelationDirect.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 07:55, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
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Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement templates
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename and merge smallcats as nominated. The contents are for navigating between encyclopedic content, not for administering the WikiProject, so the nomination correctly removes that prefix. No specific opposition has been made to the details of the nomination, so it should belatedly go ahead now. –
Fayenatic
London 18:16, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement Community of Christ templates to Category:Community of Christ templates
- Propose renaming Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement LDS templates to Category:The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints templates
- Propose merging Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement geographic templates to Category:Latter Day Saint movement infobox templates
- Propose merging Category:LDS States to Category:Latter Day Saint movement infobox templates
- Propose renaming Category:Latter Day Saint biography templates to Category:Latter Day Saint people templates
- Propose renaming Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement temple templates to Category:LDS temple templates
- Propose renaming Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement temple navboxes to Category:LDS temple navigational boxes
- Propose renaming Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement sects templates to Category:Latter Day Saint movement sects templates
- Nominator's rationale: I've created Category:Latter Day Saint movement templates before realizing that Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement templates exists. Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement templates is specific to the WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement. It contains templates such as WikiProject banner, badge, invite, and task box. Most of the subcategories in the tree of Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement templates include unnecessary prefix "WikiProject" – the categories are used for templates used in the article namespace.
I propose to reorganize these categories under the Category:Latter Day Saint movement templates and without the "WikiProject" prefix. See also additional clarifications:
- for Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement LDS templates – naming consistency with content category The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
- There is just one template in categories Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement geographic templates and Category:LDS States – {{ Infobox LDS in State}}. Together with {{ Infobox Latter Day Saint biography}}, they can form a new Category:Latter Day Saint movement infobox templates or the can be just upmerged to Category:Latter Day Saint movement templates.
- for Category:Latter Day Saint biography templates, renaming is for consistency with Category:People and person templates and to expand the scope a bit to make the category more useful.
- for Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement temple templates the suggested name is such by analogy with existing Category:LDS temple map templates and because Category:The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints temple templates is a bit too long.
- for Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement temple navboxes – an additional reason is consistency with tree of Category:Navigational boxes by topic.
— andrybak ( talk) 19:29, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- I've found one more infobox for
Category:Latter Day Saint movement infobox templates – {{
Infobox LDS in Country}}. —
andrybak (
talk) 19:49, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Comment The one problem I see with this suggestion is that we are talking about 3 different and distinct definitions.Mormonsim refers to the commonly shared beliefs of all religious sects that trace their origins back to the Church originally organized in New York in 1830 by oseph Smith. The Latter Day Saint movement refers to all sects tracing their origins back to the church started by Joseph Smith, with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Community of Christ being the largest denominations within that movement. So switching all references of the Latter Day Saint movement to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints overlooks the fact that the Latter Day Saint movment has more denominations than just that largest sect. J. That being said, anything relating to the largest sect of that movement following the 1844 succession crisis can and should be classified as relating specifcally to that church. ust wanted to mention that here
Jgstokes (
talk) 21:42, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
-
Jgstokes, could you please be more specific what adjustment to the nomination you would like to see? As far as I understand them, the
3 different and distinct definitions
you're talking about are already accounted for in the category tree:- Category:Latter Day Saint movement templates – top level category.
- As far as I can tell, right now Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement LDS templates is specific to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, aka LDS Church. That's why the temple category, and the temple navboxes category are getting the same treatment – all the templates in them are about LDS Church.
- Do you mean that the "sects" category should be renamed to Category:LDS church sects templates and categorized under Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement LDS templates? — andrybak ( talk) 00:55, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
-
Jgstokes, could you please be more specific what adjustment to the nomination you would like to see? As far as I understand them, the
- Comment The one problem I see with this suggestion is that we are talking about 3 different and distinct definitions.Mormonsim refers to the commonly shared beliefs of all religious sects that trace their origins back to the Church originally organized in New York in 1830 by oseph Smith. The Latter Day Saint movement refers to all sects tracing their origins back to the church started by Joseph Smith, with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Community of Christ being the largest denominations within that movement. So switching all references of the Latter Day Saint movement to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints overlooks the fact that the Latter Day Saint movment has more denominations than just that largest sect. J. That being said, anything relating to the largest sect of that movement following the 1844 succession crisis can and should be classified as relating specifcally to that church. ust wanted to mention that here
Jgstokes (
talk) 21:42, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Establishments in Massachusetts by year
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge and delete.
(non-admin closure) –
LaundryPizza03 (
d
c̄) 10:48, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT (1-3 articles per year). Merge to decade establishments in Massachusetts and year establishments in the Thirteen Colonies. – Aidan721 ( talk) 18:26, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- While we are here, it probably is better to specifiy the correct entity in the category names - Massachusetts Bay Colony, Plymouth Colony or Province of Massachusetts Bay as Massachusetts is definitely not the correct one. This is also causing errors in the category links as can be seen for example with Category:1622 establishments in Massachusetts which links to Province of Massachusetts Bay which per the article was established in 1691 so 69 years later. Gonnym ( talk) 17:06, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- This is questionable because it only concerns one decade of an entire tree. Marcocapelle ( talk) 18:41, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Support for Now I share Gonnym's and Marcocapelle's and the target category names should be cleaned up and more categories should eventually be nominated. But these changes address WP:SMALLCAT and incrementally improve the encyclopedia from where it is now. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 04:20, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- Support
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 07:54, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
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Category:2009 CONCACAF U-20 Championship players
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) –
LaundryPizza03 (
d
c̄) 11:35, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Propose deleting Category:2009 CONCACAF U-20 Championship players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2011 CONCACAF U-20 Championship players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2015 CONCACAF U-20 Championship players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:CONCACAF U-20 Championship players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:South American Youth Championship players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2013 South American Youth Championship players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2015 South American Youth Football Championship players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:WAFU Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Copa Centroamericana players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:1993 UNCAF Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:1995 UNCAF Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:1997 UNCAF Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2001 UNCAF Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2003 UNCAF Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2005 UNCAF Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2007 UNCAF Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2009 UNCAF Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2011 Copa Centroamericana players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2013 Copa Centroamericana players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2014 Copa Centroamericana players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2017 Copa Centroamericana players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Copa Centroamericana-winning players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Nominator's rationale: Categories for players at international tournaments are typically only created for major international tournaments, such as Category:FIFA World Cup players and Category:UEFA European Championship players. The following categories are all either youth tournaments or the championships of subregional confederations. This is not a high enough level to warrant a category, and would cause way too many categories to be used on player articles if one was created for every youth/regional championship. S.A. Julio ( talk) 17:59, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. S.A. Julio ( talk) 18:01, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. WP:NONDEF. – Aidan721 ( talk) 18:05, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete as WP:NONDEF, as these aren't the "major enough" international tournaments listed in the nom, which are likely the only defining ones. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 12:17, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - no need for these categories for youth tournaments. Giant Snowman 11:42, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Fires in Oceania by year
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge. (
non-admin closure) –
LaundryPizza03 (
d
c̄) 10:50, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:1851 fires in Oceania to Category:19th-century fires in Oceania and Category:1851 fires
- Propose merging Category:1864 fires in Oceania to Category:19th-century fires in Oceania and Category:1864 fires
- Propose merging Category:1879 fires in Oceania to Category:19th-century fires in Oceania and Category:1879 fires
- Propose merging Category:1882 fires in Oceania to Category:19th-century fires in Oceania and Category:1882 fires
- Propose merging Category:1892 fires in Oceania to Category:19th-century fires in Oceania and Category:1882 fires
- Propose merging Category:2019 fires in Oceania to Category:2010s fires in Oceania and Category:2019 fires
- Propose merging Category:2020 fires in Oceania to Category:2020s fires in Oceania and Category:2020 fires
- Propose merging Category:2021 fires in Oceania to Category:2020s fires in Oceania and Category:2021 fires
- Propose merging Category:2022 fires in Oceania to Category:2020s fires in Oceania and Category:2022 fires
- Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, mostly 1-3 article categories.
- Merge per nom. – Aidan721 ( talk) 18:07, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per WP:SMALLCAT, This is similar to lots of other 19th century disaster smallcats that have been upmerged recently. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 11:09, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
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Category:Minecraft controversies
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 10:51, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. Has only redirects and one page that falls under WP:NONDEF. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 14:26, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete, not sure about Nondef but surely a Smallcat. Marcocapelle ( talk) 17:17, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 07:53, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
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Category:Civil servants by ethnicity
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 10:53, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEGRS: intersection of civil servant and nationality and descent is not defining.
- Note: of all the world, only Sri Lankans are in this tree.
- William Allen Simpson ( talk) 08:47, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- @
William Allen Simpson: are you planning to nominate the subcategories too (for merging)?
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:55, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- No, all of them are already appropriately parented. I was checking as you asked.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 09:04, 18 April 2023 (UTC)- I am not sure I understand. Isn't it, e.g.,
Category:Sinhalese civil servants that should be merged in the first place as that is the type of categories violating
WP:OCEGRS?
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:09, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- In this case I was merely removing this Sri Lanka only parent itself, treating Burgher and Sinhalese as international'ish diasporas (like Jews). It would be painful for some of these country-ethnicity subcategories. For example,
Category:Sri Lankan Chetties are mostly in
Category:Sri Lankan Chetty people by occupation, which is a container, so upmerge isn't allowed to it. Although
Category:Sri Lankan Chetty civil servants has only 1 article, he is the founder of the entire Sri Lankan civil service. So there's no good way to handle without deleting the whole Sri Lankan Chetty people by occupation tree and upmerging 2 or 3 levels. That might be a good thing eventually, as many are small, and there are still politicians and sportspeople that have eluded our previous deletions. But that's a discussion for another day.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 09:25, 18 April 2023 (UTC)- It isn't that complicated, e.g.
Category:Sri Lankan Chetty civil servants should be merged to
Category:Sri Lankan civil servants and
Category:Sri Lankan Chetties. I have difficulty understanding what we win by deleting the container categories, it would merely hinder us in finding categories to be nominated in the future.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:44, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Agreed in principle. But then some pedant will come along and say, "you cannot do just these 5 civil servant subcategories, there's a well defined tree for occupations." As happened several years ago for
related nominations. Step by step. Establish that this combination isn't defining. Then approach each sub-tree with precedent in hand.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 10:02, 18 April 2023 (UTC)- ... in which case I was the nominator. Ok, you convinced me, delete, trivial intersection between occupation and ethnicity. Marcocapelle ( talk) 13:42, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Agreed in principle. But then some pedant will come along and say, "you cannot do just these 5 civil servant subcategories, there's a well defined tree for occupations." As happened several years ago for
related nominations. Step by step. Establish that this combination isn't defining. Then approach each sub-tree with precedent in hand.
- It isn't that complicated, e.g.
Category:Sri Lankan Chetty civil servants should be merged to
Category:Sri Lankan civil servants and
Category:Sri Lankan Chetties. I have difficulty understanding what we win by deleting the container categories, it would merely hinder us in finding categories to be nominated in the future.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:44, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- In this case I was merely removing this Sri Lanka only parent itself, treating Burgher and Sinhalese as international'ish diasporas (like Jews). It would be painful for some of these country-ethnicity subcategories. For example,
Category:Sri Lankan Chetties are mostly in
Category:Sri Lankan Chetty people by occupation, which is a container, so upmerge isn't allowed to it. Although
Category:Sri Lankan Chetty civil servants has only 1 article, he is the founder of the entire Sri Lankan civil service. So there's no good way to handle without deleting the whole Sri Lankan Chetty people by occupation tree and upmerging 2 or 3 levels. That might be a good thing eventually, as many are small, and there are still politicians and sportspeople that have eluded our previous deletions. But that's a discussion for another day.
- I am not sure I understand. Isn't it, e.g.,
Category:Sinhalese civil servants that should be merged in the first place as that is the type of categories violating
WP:OCEGRS?
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:09, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- No, all of them are already appropriately parented. I was checking as you asked.
- Delete as per WP:OCEGRS. Note: if kept, this should probably be renamed to Category:Sri Lankan civil servants by ethnicity, as the category is only about SL. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 11:11, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. Not every occupation category needs to be divided among ethnic lines, even (especially) for Sri Lanka. Place Clichy ( talk) 12:46, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Sri Lankan people by occupation and ethnic or national origin
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. I find the nominator's approach to these category trees to be problematic as well, but the issue at hand is clear and can be handled separately.
(non-admin closure) –
LaundryPizza03 (
d
c̄) 10:55, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Propose deleting
Category:Sri Lankan people by occupation and ethnic or national origin (
|
talk |
history |
links |
watch |
logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Sri Lankan actors by ethnicity ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (5 C)
- Propose deleting Category:Sri Lankan architects by ethnic or national origin ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (3 C)
- Propose deleting Category:Sri Lankan politicians by ethnic or national origin ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (6 C)
- Propose deleting
Category:Sri Lankan people by occupation and ethnic or national origin (
|
talk |
history |
links |
watch |
logs)
- Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEGRS: triple intersection of occupation and nationality and descent is not defining.
- Note: no need to manually upmerge to the parent occupation, as articles should already be in their extensive subcategories
- Followup to:
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 17#Category:Romanian people by ethnic or national origin and occupation
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 16#Category:People by ethnic or national descent and occupation
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 15#Category:Australian people of Asian descent by occupation
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 15#Category:Australian people by occupation and ethnic or national origin
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 6#Category:Sportspeople by ethnic or national origin
- William Allen Simpson ( talk) 07:51, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- @
William Allen Simpson: are you planning to nominate the subcategories too (for merging)?
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:57, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- No, I've added a merge parent to them each by hand, as they have complicated sorting keys.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 09:03, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- No, I've added a merge parent to them each by hand, as they have complicated sorting keys.
- Delete per above discussion. Marcocapelle ( talk) 13:43, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. Not every occupation category needs to be divided among ethnic lines, even (especially) for Sri Lanka. Hopefully the child categories will be nominated at some point. Place Clichy ( talk) 12:47, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Iraqi people by ethnic or national origin and occupation
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 11:27, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEGRS: triple intersection of occupation and nationality and descent is not defining.
- Note: no need to manually upmerge to the parent occupation, as articles should already be in their extensive subcategories
- Followup to:
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 17#Category:Romanian people by ethnic or national origin and occupation
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 16#Category:People by ethnic or national descent and occupation
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 15#Category:Australian people of Asian descent by occupation
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 15#Category:Australian people by occupation and ethnic or national origin
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 6#Category:Sportspeople by ethnic or national origin
- William Allen Simpson ( talk) 06:43, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- @
William Allen Simpson: are you planning to nominate the subcategories too (for merging)?
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:58, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- No, I've added a merge parent to them each by hand, as they have complicated sorting keys.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 09:03, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- No, I've added a merge parent to them each by hand, as they have complicated sorting keys.
- Delete per above discussion. Marcocapelle ( talk) 13:43, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Politicians by Imperial Chinese dynasty
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Government officials by Imperial Chinese dynasty. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 11:35, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: rename and re-parent, the tree mainly contains bureaucrats and military personnel. Note that many articles also wrongly use the word politician. If this goes ahead I will nominate the subcategories too. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:25, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Support — although it seems an awful mismash of barely related articles, these are not politicians in the modern sense.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 07:19, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Duchy of Carniola
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: Reverse merge
Timrollpickering (
talk) 18:31, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Duchy of Carniola to Category:History of Carniola
- Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with just the main article and a subcategory. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:57, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose The target is a loose geographic region that is not identical with the borders of the Duchy. The target has sub-cat "establishments": how can regions establish things? If anything, a reverse merge is indicated. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 06:58, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Reverse merging is fine too. Marcocapelle ( talk) 09:05, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Reverse rename (tagged) — to preserve history. The former is a better name, but the latter has all the content, as it is the older category.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 07:25, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Ute tribe
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename to
Category:Ute (ethnic group).
✗
plicit 06:14, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:Ute tribe to Category:Ute
- Nominator's rationale: Per previous renaming discussions here and here, "tribe" should be dropped from categories related to Native American peoples wherever possible. Bohemian Baltimore ( talk) 05:10, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose. Ute is a disambiguation page. Gonnym ( talk) 09:55, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Suggestion to overcome the objection:
Category:Ute (Native American).
Marcocapelle (
talk) 13:47, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- I have no issue with this. Gonnym ( talk) 17:08, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- I would be okay with this. Bohemian Baltimore ( talk) 14:11, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
- Comment The challenge is that the main article is Ute people and that naming is, quite understandibly, used for the biography subcategory. Would lean toward Category:Ute since the ambiguity would be blunted as I don't think readers/editors would expect the other meanings to have a category, but there's not perfect solution to this one. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 11:00, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- Rename as nominated — Another problem is that there is another Ute related tribe:
Ute Mountain Ute Tribe. Also various "Utes" (another disambigation):
San Pitch Utes,
White River Utes. Aussies calling sport-utility vehicles "ute" and "utes" isn't the
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 07:50, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
- Ute Mountain Ute Tribe are a sub-group of Ute people, but I'm unclear about the status of the other two. Furius ( talk) 23:54, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename to Category:Ute (ethnic group); Category:Ute (Native Americans) is unnecessarily fine as there are no other ethnic groups called Ute or Utes. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 17:51, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
- @
Bohemian Baltimore,
Marcocapelle,
Gonnym,
RevelationDirect, and
Furius: inviting responses to the latest alternative. For info, I tried to look for others requiring disambiguation but found only
Category:Crow tribe, and that one is still also using "tribe". –
Fayenatic
London 18:56, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- I'd still like someone with more expertise than me to confirm whether San Pitch Utes and White River Utes are sub-groups of the Ute tribe. If they are not, then I think a more precise disambiguator would be desirable. Otherwise, I'm fine with "ethnic group". Furius ( talk) 21:16, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- I'm fine with whatever is decided as I'm not familiar at all with this subject. I just opposed the non-disambiguated name. Gonnym ( talk) 22:00, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- Category:Ute (ethnic group) sounds alright too. Marcocapelle ( talk) 19:01, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- I'm good with either with Category:Ute (ethnic group) or Category:Ute (Native Americans). - RevelationDirect ( talk) 21:30, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
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April 18
Category:Ministry of International Trade and Industry (Malaysia)
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 26#Category:Ministry of International Trade and Industry (Malaysia)
Category:Mackinnons
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 10:47, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary level of categorization for an article for one player already in a players' subcategory scheme. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars Talk to me 19:59, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 03:43, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:SMALLCAT. Also, delete its subcategory Category:Mackinnons players for the same reason. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 12:16, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete both — tagged per Joseph2302, otherwise it would be orphaned.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 08:00, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
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Category:Fictional dolphins
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Fiction about dolphins. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 10:46, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Category is intended for characters, but is populated solely with media featuring dolphins, which should probably be its own category. (Oinkers42) ( talk) 16:00, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
- Support - I didn't see any article about a particular dolphin in this category; likewise in its (alleged - I am fairly sure that orcas are not dolphins) subcat Category:Fictional orcas, which should be added to the nom. (We have Category:Films about dolphins etc.) Oculi ( talk) 17:05, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
- Upmerge to Category:Fiction about dolphins. The dolphin tie-in is defining. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 23:59, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/ STUFF DONE 19:26, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per RevelationDirect. There is no reason to remove the articles from the tree of Category:Fiction about dolphins. Marcocapelle ( talk) 03:46, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- Upmerge per RevelationDirect.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 07:55, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
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Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement templates
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename and merge smallcats as nominated. The contents are for navigating between encyclopedic content, not for administering the WikiProject, so the nomination correctly removes that prefix. No specific opposition has been made to the details of the nomination, so it should belatedly go ahead now. –
Fayenatic
London 18:16, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement Community of Christ templates to Category:Community of Christ templates
- Propose renaming Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement LDS templates to Category:The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints templates
- Propose merging Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement geographic templates to Category:Latter Day Saint movement infobox templates
- Propose merging Category:LDS States to Category:Latter Day Saint movement infobox templates
- Propose renaming Category:Latter Day Saint biography templates to Category:Latter Day Saint people templates
- Propose renaming Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement temple templates to Category:LDS temple templates
- Propose renaming Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement temple navboxes to Category:LDS temple navigational boxes
- Propose renaming Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement sects templates to Category:Latter Day Saint movement sects templates
- Nominator's rationale: I've created Category:Latter Day Saint movement templates before realizing that Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement templates exists. Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement templates is specific to the WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement. It contains templates such as WikiProject banner, badge, invite, and task box. Most of the subcategories in the tree of Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement templates include unnecessary prefix "WikiProject" – the categories are used for templates used in the article namespace.
I propose to reorganize these categories under the Category:Latter Day Saint movement templates and without the "WikiProject" prefix. See also additional clarifications:
- for Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement LDS templates – naming consistency with content category The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
- There is just one template in categories Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement geographic templates and Category:LDS States – {{ Infobox LDS in State}}. Together with {{ Infobox Latter Day Saint biography}}, they can form a new Category:Latter Day Saint movement infobox templates or the can be just upmerged to Category:Latter Day Saint movement templates.
- for Category:Latter Day Saint biography templates, renaming is for consistency with Category:People and person templates and to expand the scope a bit to make the category more useful.
- for Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement temple templates the suggested name is such by analogy with existing Category:LDS temple map templates and because Category:The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints temple templates is a bit too long.
- for Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement temple navboxes – an additional reason is consistency with tree of Category:Navigational boxes by topic.
— andrybak ( talk) 19:29, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- I've found one more infobox for
Category:Latter Day Saint movement infobox templates – {{
Infobox LDS in Country}}. —
andrybak (
talk) 19:49, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Comment The one problem I see with this suggestion is that we are talking about 3 different and distinct definitions.Mormonsim refers to the commonly shared beliefs of all religious sects that trace their origins back to the Church originally organized in New York in 1830 by oseph Smith. The Latter Day Saint movement refers to all sects tracing their origins back to the church started by Joseph Smith, with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Community of Christ being the largest denominations within that movement. So switching all references of the Latter Day Saint movement to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints overlooks the fact that the Latter Day Saint movment has more denominations than just that largest sect. J. That being said, anything relating to the largest sect of that movement following the 1844 succession crisis can and should be classified as relating specifcally to that church. ust wanted to mention that here
Jgstokes (
talk) 21:42, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
-
Jgstokes, could you please be more specific what adjustment to the nomination you would like to see? As far as I understand them, the
3 different and distinct definitions
you're talking about are already accounted for in the category tree:- Category:Latter Day Saint movement templates – top level category.
- As far as I can tell, right now Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement LDS templates is specific to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, aka LDS Church. That's why the temple category, and the temple navboxes category are getting the same treatment – all the templates in them are about LDS Church.
- Do you mean that the "sects" category should be renamed to Category:LDS church sects templates and categorized under Category:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement LDS templates? — andrybak ( talk) 00:55, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
-
Jgstokes, could you please be more specific what adjustment to the nomination you would like to see? As far as I understand them, the
- Comment The one problem I see with this suggestion is that we are talking about 3 different and distinct definitions.Mormonsim refers to the commonly shared beliefs of all religious sects that trace their origins back to the Church originally organized in New York in 1830 by oseph Smith. The Latter Day Saint movement refers to all sects tracing their origins back to the church started by Joseph Smith, with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Community of Christ being the largest denominations within that movement. So switching all references of the Latter Day Saint movement to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints overlooks the fact that the Latter Day Saint movment has more denominations than just that largest sect. J. That being said, anything relating to the largest sect of that movement following the 1844 succession crisis can and should be classified as relating specifcally to that church. ust wanted to mention that here
Jgstokes (
talk) 21:42, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Establishments in Massachusetts by year
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge and delete.
(non-admin closure) –
LaundryPizza03 (
d
c̄) 10:48, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT (1-3 articles per year). Merge to decade establishments in Massachusetts and year establishments in the Thirteen Colonies. – Aidan721 ( talk) 18:26, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- While we are here, it probably is better to specifiy the correct entity in the category names - Massachusetts Bay Colony, Plymouth Colony or Province of Massachusetts Bay as Massachusetts is definitely not the correct one. This is also causing errors in the category links as can be seen for example with Category:1622 establishments in Massachusetts which links to Province of Massachusetts Bay which per the article was established in 1691 so 69 years later. Gonnym ( talk) 17:06, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- This is questionable because it only concerns one decade of an entire tree. Marcocapelle ( talk) 18:41, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Support for Now I share Gonnym's and Marcocapelle's and the target category names should be cleaned up and more categories should eventually be nominated. But these changes address WP:SMALLCAT and incrementally improve the encyclopedia from where it is now. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 04:20, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- Support
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 07:54, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
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Category:2009 CONCACAF U-20 Championship players
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) –
LaundryPizza03 (
d
c̄) 11:35, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Propose deleting Category:2009 CONCACAF U-20 Championship players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2011 CONCACAF U-20 Championship players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2015 CONCACAF U-20 Championship players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:CONCACAF U-20 Championship players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:South American Youth Championship players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2013 South American Youth Championship players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2015 South American Youth Football Championship players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:WAFU Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Copa Centroamericana players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:1993 UNCAF Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:1995 UNCAF Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:1997 UNCAF Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2001 UNCAF Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2003 UNCAF Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2005 UNCAF Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2007 UNCAF Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2009 UNCAF Nations Cup players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2011 Copa Centroamericana players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2013 Copa Centroamericana players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2014 Copa Centroamericana players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:2017 Copa Centroamericana players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Copa Centroamericana-winning players ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Nominator's rationale: Categories for players at international tournaments are typically only created for major international tournaments, such as Category:FIFA World Cup players and Category:UEFA European Championship players. The following categories are all either youth tournaments or the championships of subregional confederations. This is not a high enough level to warrant a category, and would cause way too many categories to be used on player articles if one was created for every youth/regional championship. S.A. Julio ( talk) 17:59, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. S.A. Julio ( talk) 18:01, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. WP:NONDEF. – Aidan721 ( talk) 18:05, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete as WP:NONDEF, as these aren't the "major enough" international tournaments listed in the nom, which are likely the only defining ones. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 12:17, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - no need for these categories for youth tournaments. Giant Snowman 11:42, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Fires in Oceania by year
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge. (
non-admin closure) –
LaundryPizza03 (
d
c̄) 10:50, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:1851 fires in Oceania to Category:19th-century fires in Oceania and Category:1851 fires
- Propose merging Category:1864 fires in Oceania to Category:19th-century fires in Oceania and Category:1864 fires
- Propose merging Category:1879 fires in Oceania to Category:19th-century fires in Oceania and Category:1879 fires
- Propose merging Category:1882 fires in Oceania to Category:19th-century fires in Oceania and Category:1882 fires
- Propose merging Category:1892 fires in Oceania to Category:19th-century fires in Oceania and Category:1882 fires
- Propose merging Category:2019 fires in Oceania to Category:2010s fires in Oceania and Category:2019 fires
- Propose merging Category:2020 fires in Oceania to Category:2020s fires in Oceania and Category:2020 fires
- Propose merging Category:2021 fires in Oceania to Category:2020s fires in Oceania and Category:2021 fires
- Propose merging Category:2022 fires in Oceania to Category:2020s fires in Oceania and Category:2022 fires
- Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, mostly 1-3 article categories.
- Merge per nom. – Aidan721 ( talk) 18:07, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per WP:SMALLCAT, This is similar to lots of other 19th century disaster smallcats that have been upmerged recently. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 11:09, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
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Category:Minecraft controversies
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 10:51, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. Has only redirects and one page that falls under WP:NONDEF. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 14:26, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete, not sure about Nondef but surely a Smallcat. Marcocapelle ( talk) 17:17, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 07:53, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
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Category:Civil servants by ethnicity
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 10:53, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEGRS: intersection of civil servant and nationality and descent is not defining.
- Note: of all the world, only Sri Lankans are in this tree.
- William Allen Simpson ( talk) 08:47, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- @
William Allen Simpson: are you planning to nominate the subcategories too (for merging)?
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:55, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- No, all of them are already appropriately parented. I was checking as you asked.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 09:04, 18 April 2023 (UTC)- I am not sure I understand. Isn't it, e.g.,
Category:Sinhalese civil servants that should be merged in the first place as that is the type of categories violating
WP:OCEGRS?
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:09, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- In this case I was merely removing this Sri Lanka only parent itself, treating Burgher and Sinhalese as international'ish diasporas (like Jews). It would be painful for some of these country-ethnicity subcategories. For example,
Category:Sri Lankan Chetties are mostly in
Category:Sri Lankan Chetty people by occupation, which is a container, so upmerge isn't allowed to it. Although
Category:Sri Lankan Chetty civil servants has only 1 article, he is the founder of the entire Sri Lankan civil service. So there's no good way to handle without deleting the whole Sri Lankan Chetty people by occupation tree and upmerging 2 or 3 levels. That might be a good thing eventually, as many are small, and there are still politicians and sportspeople that have eluded our previous deletions. But that's a discussion for another day.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 09:25, 18 April 2023 (UTC)- It isn't that complicated, e.g.
Category:Sri Lankan Chetty civil servants should be merged to
Category:Sri Lankan civil servants and
Category:Sri Lankan Chetties. I have difficulty understanding what we win by deleting the container categories, it would merely hinder us in finding categories to be nominated in the future.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:44, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Agreed in principle. But then some pedant will come along and say, "you cannot do just these 5 civil servant subcategories, there's a well defined tree for occupations." As happened several years ago for
related nominations. Step by step. Establish that this combination isn't defining. Then approach each sub-tree with precedent in hand.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 10:02, 18 April 2023 (UTC)- ... in which case I was the nominator. Ok, you convinced me, delete, trivial intersection between occupation and ethnicity. Marcocapelle ( talk) 13:42, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Agreed in principle. But then some pedant will come along and say, "you cannot do just these 5 civil servant subcategories, there's a well defined tree for occupations." As happened several years ago for
related nominations. Step by step. Establish that this combination isn't defining. Then approach each sub-tree with precedent in hand.
- It isn't that complicated, e.g.
Category:Sri Lankan Chetty civil servants should be merged to
Category:Sri Lankan civil servants and
Category:Sri Lankan Chetties. I have difficulty understanding what we win by deleting the container categories, it would merely hinder us in finding categories to be nominated in the future.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:44, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- In this case I was merely removing this Sri Lanka only parent itself, treating Burgher and Sinhalese as international'ish diasporas (like Jews). It would be painful for some of these country-ethnicity subcategories. For example,
Category:Sri Lankan Chetties are mostly in
Category:Sri Lankan Chetty people by occupation, which is a container, so upmerge isn't allowed to it. Although
Category:Sri Lankan Chetty civil servants has only 1 article, he is the founder of the entire Sri Lankan civil service. So there's no good way to handle without deleting the whole Sri Lankan Chetty people by occupation tree and upmerging 2 or 3 levels. That might be a good thing eventually, as many are small, and there are still politicians and sportspeople that have eluded our previous deletions. But that's a discussion for another day.
- I am not sure I understand. Isn't it, e.g.,
Category:Sinhalese civil servants that should be merged in the first place as that is the type of categories violating
WP:OCEGRS?
Marcocapelle (
talk) 09:09, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- No, all of them are already appropriately parented. I was checking as you asked.
- Delete as per WP:OCEGRS. Note: if kept, this should probably be renamed to Category:Sri Lankan civil servants by ethnicity, as the category is only about SL. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 11:11, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. Not every occupation category needs to be divided among ethnic lines, even (especially) for Sri Lanka. Place Clichy ( talk) 12:46, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Sri Lankan people by occupation and ethnic or national origin
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. I find the nominator's approach to these category trees to be problematic as well, but the issue at hand is clear and can be handled separately.
(non-admin closure) –
LaundryPizza03 (
d
c̄) 10:55, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Propose deleting
Category:Sri Lankan people by occupation and ethnic or national origin (
|
talk |
history |
links |
watch |
logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Sri Lankan actors by ethnicity ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (5 C)
- Propose deleting Category:Sri Lankan architects by ethnic or national origin ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (3 C)
- Propose deleting Category:Sri Lankan politicians by ethnic or national origin ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (6 C)
- Propose deleting
Category:Sri Lankan people by occupation and ethnic or national origin (
|
talk |
history |
links |
watch |
logs)
- Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEGRS: triple intersection of occupation and nationality and descent is not defining.
- Note: no need to manually upmerge to the parent occupation, as articles should already be in their extensive subcategories
- Followup to:
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 17#Category:Romanian people by ethnic or national origin and occupation
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 16#Category:People by ethnic or national descent and occupation
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 15#Category:Australian people of Asian descent by occupation
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 15#Category:Australian people by occupation and ethnic or national origin
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 6#Category:Sportspeople by ethnic or national origin
- William Allen Simpson ( talk) 07:51, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- @
William Allen Simpson: are you planning to nominate the subcategories too (for merging)?
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:57, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- No, I've added a merge parent to them each by hand, as they have complicated sorting keys.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 09:03, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- No, I've added a merge parent to them each by hand, as they have complicated sorting keys.
- Delete per above discussion. Marcocapelle ( talk) 13:43, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. Not every occupation category needs to be divided among ethnic lines, even (especially) for Sri Lanka. Hopefully the child categories will be nominated at some point. Place Clichy ( talk) 12:47, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Iraqi people by ethnic or national origin and occupation
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 11:27, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEGRS: triple intersection of occupation and nationality and descent is not defining.
- Note: no need to manually upmerge to the parent occupation, as articles should already be in their extensive subcategories
- Followup to:
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 17#Category:Romanian people by ethnic or national origin and occupation
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 16#Category:People by ethnic or national descent and occupation
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 15#Category:Australian people of Asian descent by occupation
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 15#Category:Australian people by occupation and ethnic or national origin
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 6#Category:Sportspeople by ethnic or national origin
- William Allen Simpson ( talk) 06:43, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- @
William Allen Simpson: are you planning to nominate the subcategories too (for merging)?
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:58, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- No, I've added a merge parent to them each by hand, as they have complicated sorting keys.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 09:03, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- No, I've added a merge parent to them each by hand, as they have complicated sorting keys.
- Delete per above discussion. Marcocapelle ( talk) 13:43, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Politicians by Imperial Chinese dynasty
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Government officials by Imperial Chinese dynasty. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 11:35, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: rename and re-parent, the tree mainly contains bureaucrats and military personnel. Note that many articles also wrongly use the word politician. If this goes ahead I will nominate the subcategories too. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:25, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Support — although it seems an awful mismash of barely related articles, these are not politicians in the modern sense.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 07:19, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Duchy of Carniola
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: Reverse merge
Timrollpickering (
talk) 18:31, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Duchy of Carniola to Category:History of Carniola
- Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with just the main article and a subcategory. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:57, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose The target is a loose geographic region that is not identical with the borders of the Duchy. The target has sub-cat "establishments": how can regions establish things? If anything, a reverse merge is indicated. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 06:58, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Reverse merging is fine too. Marcocapelle ( talk) 09:05, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Reverse rename (tagged) — to preserve history. The former is a better name, but the latter has all the content, as it is the older category.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 07:25, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Ute tribe
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename to
Category:Ute (ethnic group).
✗
plicit 06:14, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:Ute tribe to Category:Ute
- Nominator's rationale: Per previous renaming discussions here and here, "tribe" should be dropped from categories related to Native American peoples wherever possible. Bohemian Baltimore ( talk) 05:10, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose. Ute is a disambiguation page. Gonnym ( talk) 09:55, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- Suggestion to overcome the objection:
Category:Ute (Native American).
Marcocapelle (
talk) 13:47, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- I have no issue with this. Gonnym ( talk) 17:08, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
- I would be okay with this. Bohemian Baltimore ( talk) 14:11, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
- Comment The challenge is that the main article is Ute people and that naming is, quite understandibly, used for the biography subcategory. Would lean toward Category:Ute since the ambiguity would be blunted as I don't think readers/editors would expect the other meanings to have a category, but there's not perfect solution to this one. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 11:00, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- Rename as nominated — Another problem is that there is another Ute related tribe:
Ute Mountain Ute Tribe. Also various "Utes" (another disambigation):
San Pitch Utes,
White River Utes. Aussies calling sport-utility vehicles "ute" and "utes" isn't the
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.
William Allen Simpson ( talk) 07:50, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
- Ute Mountain Ute Tribe are a sub-group of Ute people, but I'm unclear about the status of the other two. Furius ( talk) 23:54, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename to Category:Ute (ethnic group); Category:Ute (Native Americans) is unnecessarily fine as there are no other ethnic groups called Ute or Utes. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 17:51, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
- @
Bohemian Baltimore,
Marcocapelle,
Gonnym,
RevelationDirect, and
Furius: inviting responses to the latest alternative. For info, I tried to look for others requiring disambiguation but found only
Category:Crow tribe, and that one is still also using "tribe". –
Fayenatic
London 18:56, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- I'd still like someone with more expertise than me to confirm whether San Pitch Utes and White River Utes are sub-groups of the Ute tribe. If they are not, then I think a more precise disambiguator would be desirable. Otherwise, I'm fine with "ethnic group". Furius ( talk) 21:16, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- I'm fine with whatever is decided as I'm not familiar at all with this subject. I just opposed the non-disambiguated name. Gonnym ( talk) 22:00, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- Category:Ute (ethnic group) sounds alright too. Marcocapelle ( talk) 19:01, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- I'm good with either with Category:Ute (ethnic group) or Category:Ute (Native Americans). - RevelationDirect ( talk) 21:30, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.