Category:Racehorse trainers educated at Eton College
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Another irrelevant intersection.
Oculi (
talk) 13:44, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Horse racing is clearly a very common interest for people educated at Eton. There are also a large number of
Category:Racehorse owners and breeders from Eton - mostly more notable for other aspects of their lives, but the two are clearly linked.
Rathfelder (
talk) 13:47, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Not really. "Horse racing is clearly a very common interest for" British men educated at all sorts of schools. Eton takes some 270 boys a year, so had about 27,000 Etonians over the 20th century, of whom 21 apparently became racehorse trainers (from all centuries), fewer than 1 in 1000. Probably there were periods without a single future trainer in the school. Merge, especially as a diffusing category.
Johnbod (
talk) 13:59, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
We only have 192 articles in
Category:British racehorse trainers - not including the Eton ones, as they arent all British, so 10% are from Eton. That seems quite significant.
Rathfelder (
talk) 15:03, 27 October 2022 (UTC)reply
It would become more interesting if this percentage would be much higher than for any other occupation, but even if that were the case it would rather be a nice fact to mention in the article about Eton. We have a nice essay
Wikipedia:Do not write articles using categories.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:01, 28 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Merge back, I can see that the parent category is too large but a by-century split would be far more natural than a split by a later occupation that people did not have yet when they were at this school.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:17, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:British viceroys educated at Harrow School
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: This was created yesterday by Rathfelder. As there are several related cfds in progress this and similar creations should all be paused pending resolution of existing cfds. (Rather than wasting the time of other editors.) There is certainly no support whatever for the 'Viceroys' wording.
Oculi (
talk) 10:24, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
When I did stop waiting for a decision I was criticised, as below, for leaving the job unfinished.
Rathfelder (
talk) 14:58, 27 October 2022 (UTC)reply
If we agree a change of wording for Eton than this can be changed speedily.
Rathfelder (
talk) 10:33, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Which is more work for editors. And if the Eton one is upmerged?
Oculi (
talk) 10:42, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The Eton proposal is for renaming.
Rathfelder (
talk) 10:54, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The Eton proposal is for renaming or upmerging, if you read it properly.
Oculi (
talk) 13:41, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Yet another hare started, which you won't finish! You got no consensus on the Etonian judges, which you had abandoned, & recently said you would complete that. How is that going? At the moment I would support a ban on new categories creation.
Johnbod (
talk) 12:16, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Also
Raja Maharaj Singh is not British (nor a viceroy): students at Eton/Harrow are international, not necessarily British.
Oculi (
talk) 14:03, 27 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Merge back, I can see that the parent category is too large but a by-century split would be far more natural than a split by a later occupation that people did not have yet when they were at this school.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 13:17, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
There are many thousands of occupational categories for people who were born or grew up somewhere who are categorised as "Plumbers from Foo" and the like who were not plumbers when they were in Foo, and for which there is no obvious link between where they were born and what they became. There is, however, plenty of documentation showing the links between education public schools and prestigious occupations.
Rathfelder (
talk) 16:18, 27 October 2022 (UTC)reply
I agree that many occupation by location categories are overpopulated, but they may still have a reason to exist. See also my comments about that in the architects by county discussion further above on this page.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:29, 28 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Merge back Actually none of these governors are properly called "viceroys" (the Etonians got those jobs, as we know), and the category should not be diffusing, even if it is more defining than some.
Johnbod (
talk) 14:04, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: I nominated this category
over two years ago and was deleted, but I was recreated in June 2021. My rationale remains the same: it's not a
WP:CATDEF that brothers appear in a video game, just games that happen to have characters that are brothers.
soetermans.
↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 17:46, 10 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Procedural oppose That is an issue that can be solved by decategorizing any incorrectly categorized games. If you believe the entire categorization scheme is incorrect, then at the very least
Category:Works about siblings and all subcategories should be nominated for deletion, if not
Category:Works about families and all subcategories.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 10:41, 11 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Mother 3 is directly about the sibling dynamic between Lucas and Claus, Uncharted 4: A Thief's End seems to go through the backstory of Nathan Drake and his brother as a major plot of the plot, and the Mario and Luigi series features the brother's dynamic as a major point of the gameplay. If these do not count as about brothers, I am not sure what would.
(Oinkers42) (
talk) 13:34, 18 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 19:56, 18 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Delete, as a trivial characteristic. The whole tree of
Category:Video games by theme may be revisited. This is completely different from books or films which truly are about a topic.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 04:57, 19 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The tree definitely deserves a look - jc37 02:50, 28 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 10:15, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Delete - Simple test for inclusion for any "work about X" category:
Does the work in question merely contain examples of the item in question? Or is the subject of the work the item in question.
So does it merely include one or more ham sandwiches, or is it a work with the theme of ham sandwiches?
or in this case - Are there merely brothers in the work? Or is it a work with theme of brothers. And note, that's a theme about brothers/brotherhood in general, not two specific brothers.
I think it's fair to say that this category is simply filled with examples of works containing brothers, not works with brothers as its theme. - jc37 02:50, 28 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Support, seems agreeable (one character difference from dash to en-dash?)
🌊PacificDepthstalk|
contrib 03:51, 1 November 2022 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Racehorse trainers educated at Eton College
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Another irrelevant intersection.
Oculi (
talk) 13:44, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Horse racing is clearly a very common interest for people educated at Eton. There are also a large number of
Category:Racehorse owners and breeders from Eton - mostly more notable for other aspects of their lives, but the two are clearly linked.
Rathfelder (
talk) 13:47, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Not really. "Horse racing is clearly a very common interest for" British men educated at all sorts of schools. Eton takes some 270 boys a year, so had about 27,000 Etonians over the 20th century, of whom 21 apparently became racehorse trainers (from all centuries), fewer than 1 in 1000. Probably there were periods without a single future trainer in the school. Merge, especially as a diffusing category.
Johnbod (
talk) 13:59, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
We only have 192 articles in
Category:British racehorse trainers - not including the Eton ones, as they arent all British, so 10% are from Eton. That seems quite significant.
Rathfelder (
talk) 15:03, 27 October 2022 (UTC)reply
It would become more interesting if this percentage would be much higher than for any other occupation, but even if that were the case it would rather be a nice fact to mention in the article about Eton. We have a nice essay
Wikipedia:Do not write articles using categories.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:01, 28 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Merge back, I can see that the parent category is too large but a by-century split would be far more natural than a split by a later occupation that people did not have yet when they were at this school.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:17, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:British viceroys educated at Harrow School
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: This was created yesterday by Rathfelder. As there are several related cfds in progress this and similar creations should all be paused pending resolution of existing cfds. (Rather than wasting the time of other editors.) There is certainly no support whatever for the 'Viceroys' wording.
Oculi (
talk) 10:24, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
When I did stop waiting for a decision I was criticised, as below, for leaving the job unfinished.
Rathfelder (
talk) 14:58, 27 October 2022 (UTC)reply
If we agree a change of wording for Eton than this can be changed speedily.
Rathfelder (
talk) 10:33, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Which is more work for editors. And if the Eton one is upmerged?
Oculi (
talk) 10:42, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The Eton proposal is for renaming.
Rathfelder (
talk) 10:54, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The Eton proposal is for renaming or upmerging, if you read it properly.
Oculi (
talk) 13:41, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Yet another hare started, which you won't finish! You got no consensus on the Etonian judges, which you had abandoned, & recently said you would complete that. How is that going? At the moment I would support a ban on new categories creation.
Johnbod (
talk) 12:16, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Also
Raja Maharaj Singh is not British (nor a viceroy): students at Eton/Harrow are international, not necessarily British.
Oculi (
talk) 14:03, 27 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Merge back, I can see that the parent category is too large but a by-century split would be far more natural than a split by a later occupation that people did not have yet when they were at this school.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 13:17, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
There are many thousands of occupational categories for people who were born or grew up somewhere who are categorised as "Plumbers from Foo" and the like who were not plumbers when they were in Foo, and for which there is no obvious link between where they were born and what they became. There is, however, plenty of documentation showing the links between education public schools and prestigious occupations.
Rathfelder (
talk) 16:18, 27 October 2022 (UTC)reply
I agree that many occupation by location categories are overpopulated, but they may still have a reason to exist. See also my comments about that in the architects by county discussion further above on this page.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:29, 28 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Merge back Actually none of these governors are properly called "viceroys" (the Etonians got those jobs, as we know), and the category should not be diffusing, even if it is more defining than some.
Johnbod (
talk) 14:04, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: I nominated this category
over two years ago and was deleted, but I was recreated in June 2021. My rationale remains the same: it's not a
WP:CATDEF that brothers appear in a video game, just games that happen to have characters that are brothers.
soetermans.
↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 17:46, 10 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Procedural oppose That is an issue that can be solved by decategorizing any incorrectly categorized games. If you believe the entire categorization scheme is incorrect, then at the very least
Category:Works about siblings and all subcategories should be nominated for deletion, if not
Category:Works about families and all subcategories.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 10:41, 11 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Mother 3 is directly about the sibling dynamic between Lucas and Claus, Uncharted 4: A Thief's End seems to go through the backstory of Nathan Drake and his brother as a major plot of the plot, and the Mario and Luigi series features the brother's dynamic as a major point of the gameplay. If these do not count as about brothers, I am not sure what would.
(Oinkers42) (
talk) 13:34, 18 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 19:56, 18 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Delete, as a trivial characteristic. The whole tree of
Category:Video games by theme may be revisited. This is completely different from books or films which truly are about a topic.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 04:57, 19 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The tree definitely deserves a look - jc37 02:50, 28 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk 10:15, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Delete - Simple test for inclusion for any "work about X" category:
Does the work in question merely contain examples of the item in question? Or is the subject of the work the item in question.
So does it merely include one or more ham sandwiches, or is it a work with the theme of ham sandwiches?
or in this case - Are there merely brothers in the work? Or is it a work with theme of brothers. And note, that's a theme about brothers/brotherhood in general, not two specific brothers.
I think it's fair to say that this category is simply filled with examples of works containing brothers, not works with brothers as its theme. - jc37 02:50, 28 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Support, seems agreeable (one character difference from dash to en-dash?)
🌊PacificDepthstalk|
contrib 03:51, 1 November 2022 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.