Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 November 3#Architects by county in England
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 November 3#Category:Port settlements in Argentina
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 17:58, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Another irrelevant intersection. Oculi ( talk) 13:44, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Horse racing is clearly a very common interest for people educated at Eton. There are also a large number of
Category:Racehorse owners and breeders from Eton - mostly more notable for other aspects of their lives, but the two are clearly linked.
Rathfelder (
talk)
13:47, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Not really. "Horse racing is clearly a very common interest for" British men educated at all sorts of schools. Eton takes some 270 boys a year, so had about 27,000 Etonians over the 20th century, of whom 21 apparently became racehorse trainers (from all centuries), fewer than 1 in 1000. Probably there were periods without a single future trainer in the school. Merge, especially as a diffusing category. Johnbod ( talk) 13:59, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- We only have 192 articles in Category:British racehorse trainers - not including the Eton ones, as they arent all British, so 10% are from Eton. That seems quite significant. Rathfelder ( talk) 15:03, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- It would become more interesting if this percentage would be much higher than for any other occupation, but even if that were the case it would rather be a nice fact to mention in the article about Eton. We have a nice essay Wikipedia:Do not write articles using categories. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:01, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- Merge back, I can see that the parent category is too large but a by-century split would be far more natural than a split by a later occupation that people did not have yet when they were at this school. Marcocapelle ( talk) 20:17, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 November 3#Category:Tinker Bell films
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 18:00, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: This was created yesterday by Rathfelder. As there are several related cfds in progress this and similar creations should all be paused pending resolution of existing cfds. (Rather than wasting the time of other editors.) There is certainly no support whatever for the 'Viceroys' wording.
Oculi (
talk)
10:24, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- When I did stop waiting for a decision I was criticised, as below, for leaving the job unfinished. Rathfelder ( talk) 14:58, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- If we agree a change of wording for Eton than this can be changed speedily.
Rathfelder (
talk)
10:33, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Which is more work for editors. And if the Eton one is upmerged?
Oculi (
talk)
10:42, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- The Eton proposal is for renaming. Rathfelder ( talk) 10:54, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- The Eton proposal is for renaming or upmerging, if you read it properly.
Oculi (
talk)
13:41, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Yet another hare started, which you won't finish! You got no consensus on the Etonian judges, which you had abandoned, & recently said you would complete that. How is that going? At the moment I would support a ban on new categories creation.
Johnbod (
talk)
12:16, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- I think Category:Judges educated at Eton College is now finished. These are very large parent categories. Rathfelder ( talk) 13:38, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Also Raja Maharaj Singh is not British (nor a viceroy): students at Eton/Harrow are international, not necessarily British. Oculi ( talk) 14:03, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- Yet another hare started, which you won't finish! You got no consensus on the Etonian judges, which you had abandoned, & recently said you would complete that. How is that going? At the moment I would support a ban on new categories creation.
Johnbod (
talk)
12:16, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Which is more work for editors. And if the Eton one is upmerged?
Oculi (
talk)
10:42, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Merge back, I can see that the parent category is too large but a by-century split would be far more natural than a split by a later occupation that people did not have yet when they were at this school.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
13:17, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- There are many thousands of occupational categories for people who were born or grew up somewhere who are categorised as "Plumbers from Foo" and the like who were not plumbers when they were in Foo, and for which there is no obvious link between where they were born and what they became. There is, however, plenty of documentation showing the links between education public schools and prestigious occupations. Rathfelder ( talk) 16:18, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- I agree that many occupation by location categories are overpopulated, but they may still have a reason to exist. See also my comments about that in the architects by county discussion further above on this page. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:29, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- Merge back Actually none of these governors are properly called "viceroys" (the Etonians got those jobs, as we know), and the category should not be diffusing, even if it is more defining than some. Johnbod ( talk) 14:04, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Opps, apologies to Charles Hardinge, 1st Baron Hardinge of Penshurst, who got to India. Johnbod ( talk) 01:06, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- The superior category is Category:Viceroys of the British monarch. I'm quite happy to change the title if we can find something better. Rathfelder ( talk) 15:00, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 November 3#Category:California Democrats
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 18:02, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: I nominated this category over two years ago and was deleted, but I was recreated in June 2021. My rationale remains the same: it's not a WP:CATDEF that brothers appear in a video game, just games that happen to have characters that are brothers. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 17:46, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
- Procedural oppose That is an issue that can be solved by decategorizing any incorrectly categorized games. If you believe the entire categorization scheme is incorrect, then at the very least Category:Works about siblings and all subcategories should be nominated for deletion, if not Category:Works about families and all subcategories. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 10:41, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
- Speedy Delete per WP:G4. The two articles I clicked on were Little Nicky (video game) and Oink! (video game), neither one of which even mentions a brother. (Presumably the original sources material these video games were based on includes a brother so this is at least partly Category:Video games about topics that included a brother in a different medium.) This category suffers from the same issues as last time it came before CFD and invoking WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS doesn't change that. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 12:47, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
- Weak Keep - there are games that are definitively about brothers, namely Mother 3, Uncharted 4: A Thief's End, and the Mario & Luigi series. I think these are only barely enough, but there is very likely more. (Oinkers42) ( talk) 16:19, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
- Hi @
(Oinkers42):, thanks for your input. I'd argue that these game might feature brothers, they're not about brothers. Not a
WP:CATDEF.
soetermans.
↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK
08:06, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
- Mother 3 is directly about the sibling dynamic between Lucas and Claus, Uncharted 4: A Thief's End seems to go through the backstory of Nathan Drake and his brother as a major plot of the plot, and the Mario and Luigi series features the brother's dynamic as a major point of the gameplay. If these do not count as about brothers, I am not sure what would. (Oinkers42) ( talk) 13:34, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
- Hi @
(Oinkers42):, thanks for your input. I'd argue that these game might feature brothers, they're not about brothers. Not a
WP:CATDEF.
soetermans.
↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK
08:06, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 19:56, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete, as a trivial characteristic. The whole tree of
Category:Video games by theme may be revisited. This is completely different from books or films which truly are about a topic.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
04:57, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
- The tree definitely deserves a look - jc37 02:50, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 10:15, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete - Simple test for inclusion for any "work about X" category:
- Does the work in question merely contain examples of the item in question? Or is the subject of the work the item in question.
- So does it merely include one or more ham sandwiches, or is it a work with the theme of ham sandwiches?
- or in this case - Are there merely brothers in the work? Or is it a work with theme of brothers. And note, that's a theme about brothers/brotherhood in general, not two specific brothers.
- I think it's fair to say that this category is simply filled with examples of works containing brothers, not works with brothers as its theme. - jc37 02:50, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 November 3#Category:Royalty educated at Eton College
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 18:01, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Per Chinatown–International District, Seattle -- Another Believer ( Talk) 03:04, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Support, this should have been listed at WP:CFDS. Marcocapelle ( talk) 20:27, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Support, seems agreeable (one character difference from dash to en-dash?) 🌊PacificDepths talk| contrib 03:51, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 November 3#Architects by county in England
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 November 3#Category:Port settlements in Argentina
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 17:58, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Another irrelevant intersection. Oculi ( talk) 13:44, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Horse racing is clearly a very common interest for people educated at Eton. There are also a large number of
Category:Racehorse owners and breeders from Eton - mostly more notable for other aspects of their lives, but the two are clearly linked.
Rathfelder (
talk)
13:47, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Not really. "Horse racing is clearly a very common interest for" British men educated at all sorts of schools. Eton takes some 270 boys a year, so had about 27,000 Etonians over the 20th century, of whom 21 apparently became racehorse trainers (from all centuries), fewer than 1 in 1000. Probably there were periods without a single future trainer in the school. Merge, especially as a diffusing category. Johnbod ( talk) 13:59, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- We only have 192 articles in Category:British racehorse trainers - not including the Eton ones, as they arent all British, so 10% are from Eton. That seems quite significant. Rathfelder ( talk) 15:03, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- It would become more interesting if this percentage would be much higher than for any other occupation, but even if that were the case it would rather be a nice fact to mention in the article about Eton. We have a nice essay Wikipedia:Do not write articles using categories. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:01, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- Merge back, I can see that the parent category is too large but a by-century split would be far more natural than a split by a later occupation that people did not have yet when they were at this school. Marcocapelle ( talk) 20:17, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 November 3#Category:Tinker Bell films
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 18:00, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: This was created yesterday by Rathfelder. As there are several related cfds in progress this and similar creations should all be paused pending resolution of existing cfds. (Rather than wasting the time of other editors.) There is certainly no support whatever for the 'Viceroys' wording.
Oculi (
talk)
10:24, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- When I did stop waiting for a decision I was criticised, as below, for leaving the job unfinished. Rathfelder ( talk) 14:58, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- If we agree a change of wording for Eton than this can be changed speedily.
Rathfelder (
talk)
10:33, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Which is more work for editors. And if the Eton one is upmerged?
Oculi (
talk)
10:42, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- The Eton proposal is for renaming. Rathfelder ( talk) 10:54, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- The Eton proposal is for renaming or upmerging, if you read it properly.
Oculi (
talk)
13:41, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Yet another hare started, which you won't finish! You got no consensus on the Etonian judges, which you had abandoned, & recently said you would complete that. How is that going? At the moment I would support a ban on new categories creation.
Johnbod (
talk)
12:16, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- I think Category:Judges educated at Eton College is now finished. These are very large parent categories. Rathfelder ( talk) 13:38, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Also Raja Maharaj Singh is not British (nor a viceroy): students at Eton/Harrow are international, not necessarily British. Oculi ( talk) 14:03, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- Yet another hare started, which you won't finish! You got no consensus on the Etonian judges, which you had abandoned, & recently said you would complete that. How is that going? At the moment I would support a ban on new categories creation.
Johnbod (
talk)
12:16, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Which is more work for editors. And if the Eton one is upmerged?
Oculi (
talk)
10:42, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Merge back, I can see that the parent category is too large but a by-century split would be far more natural than a split by a later occupation that people did not have yet when they were at this school.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
13:17, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- There are many thousands of occupational categories for people who were born or grew up somewhere who are categorised as "Plumbers from Foo" and the like who were not plumbers when they were in Foo, and for which there is no obvious link between where they were born and what they became. There is, however, plenty of documentation showing the links between education public schools and prestigious occupations. Rathfelder ( talk) 16:18, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- I agree that many occupation by location categories are overpopulated, but they may still have a reason to exist. See also my comments about that in the architects by county discussion further above on this page. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:29, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- Merge back Actually none of these governors are properly called "viceroys" (the Etonians got those jobs, as we know), and the category should not be diffusing, even if it is more defining than some. Johnbod ( talk) 14:04, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Opps, apologies to Charles Hardinge, 1st Baron Hardinge of Penshurst, who got to India. Johnbod ( talk) 01:06, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- The superior category is Category:Viceroys of the British monarch. I'm quite happy to change the title if we can find something better. Rathfelder ( talk) 15:00, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 November 3#Category:California Democrats
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 18:02, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: I nominated this category over two years ago and was deleted, but I was recreated in June 2021. My rationale remains the same: it's not a WP:CATDEF that brothers appear in a video game, just games that happen to have characters that are brothers. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 17:46, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
- Procedural oppose That is an issue that can be solved by decategorizing any incorrectly categorized games. If you believe the entire categorization scheme is incorrect, then at the very least Category:Works about siblings and all subcategories should be nominated for deletion, if not Category:Works about families and all subcategories. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 10:41, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
- Speedy Delete per WP:G4. The two articles I clicked on were Little Nicky (video game) and Oink! (video game), neither one of which even mentions a brother. (Presumably the original sources material these video games were based on includes a brother so this is at least partly Category:Video games about topics that included a brother in a different medium.) This category suffers from the same issues as last time it came before CFD and invoking WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS doesn't change that. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 12:47, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
- Weak Keep - there are games that are definitively about brothers, namely Mother 3, Uncharted 4: A Thief's End, and the Mario & Luigi series. I think these are only barely enough, but there is very likely more. (Oinkers42) ( talk) 16:19, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
- Hi @
(Oinkers42):, thanks for your input. I'd argue that these game might feature brothers, they're not about brothers. Not a
WP:CATDEF.
soetermans.
↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK
08:06, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
- Mother 3 is directly about the sibling dynamic between Lucas and Claus, Uncharted 4: A Thief's End seems to go through the backstory of Nathan Drake and his brother as a major plot of the plot, and the Mario and Luigi series features the brother's dynamic as a major point of the gameplay. If these do not count as about brothers, I am not sure what would. (Oinkers42) ( talk) 13:34, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
- Hi @
(Oinkers42):, thanks for your input. I'd argue that these game might feature brothers, they're not about brothers. Not a
WP:CATDEF.
soetermans.
↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK
08:06, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 19:56, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete, as a trivial characteristic. The whole tree of
Category:Video games by theme may be revisited. This is completely different from books or films which truly are about a topic.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
04:57, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
- The tree definitely deserves a look - jc37 02:50, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 10:15, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete - Simple test for inclusion for any "work about X" category:
- Does the work in question merely contain examples of the item in question? Or is the subject of the work the item in question.
- So does it merely include one or more ham sandwiches, or is it a work with the theme of ham sandwiches?
- or in this case - Are there merely brothers in the work? Or is it a work with theme of brothers. And note, that's a theme about brothers/brotherhood in general, not two specific brothers.
- I think it's fair to say that this category is simply filled with examples of works containing brothers, not works with brothers as its theme. - jc37 02:50, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 November 3#Category:Royalty educated at Eton College
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 18:01, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Per Chinatown–International District, Seattle -- Another Believer ( Talk) 03:04, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Support, this should have been listed at WP:CFDS. Marcocapelle ( talk) 20:27, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Support, seems agreeable (one character difference from dash to en-dash?) 🌊PacificDepths talk| contrib 03:51, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.