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Category:Disney protagonists
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Delete. Recently created category of unclear inclusion criteria by newish CIR-banned user. Note that I think that essentially all "Categorization by status as protagonist" is incorrect and should be deleted, but CFDs have failed on such grounds before; that said, don't let the sickness spread further.
SnowFire (
talk)
03:30, 15 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:Ongoing events
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Since these five nominations share a common rationle and concern similar categories, they could have been bundled into one CfD. Definitely delete all based on the observation that unlike lists such as
List of ongoing armed conflicts, category membership is prone to becoming outdated, since many articles on obscure topics don't get updated for years. And several current-events lists have been deleted at AfD for a similar reason, such as
List of currently erupting volcanoes. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄)
02:19, 2 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Support We do not usually allow current/past distinctions in categories, because we cannot be sure things will be moved when they cease to be ongoing. The better solution is to place items in a 2022 category.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:26, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose By this logic we must delete also
Category:Future events because it will be past events at some point of time. The whole
Category:Future is going to become past and we cannot be sure things would be moved when they become past.
And how category is "prone to become outdated" anymore than list? Lists contain less "obscure" topics?
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Category:Ongoing legal cases
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I suppose in the case law by year tree the articles are categorized based on the concluding year only (correct me if I am wrong). For that reason the nominated category might be kept as a maintenance category.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
05:54, 2 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Support We do not usually allow current/past distinctions in categories, because we cannot be sure things will be moved when they cease to be ongoing. This applies particularly because legal cases should be soon over.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:25, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Many different categories in Wikipedia (such as
Category:Living people) depend on a temporal distinction. These categories have to be, and most often are, updated in due course. A concentration of ongoing legal cases in a single category is useful for multiple purposes. To give just three examples, this category serves: (1) readers who are looking for a recent case, discussed in the news or some other forum, but are not certain of its precise details; (2) readers who are making their first steps in the law - whether as students or general-interest participants - and wish to read about present legal cases to understand the current operation of the law; (3) law students, and perhaps legal practitioners, who require a list of ongoing legal cases, from multiple jurisdictions - a feature that even well-established legal research platforms do not provide. In addition, contrary to
Peterkingiron's comment, many legal cases are not over so quickly. Finally,
Marcocapelle's comment, about maintaining the category as a maintenance category, can also be supported.
A.R. (
talk)
17:12, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:Ongoing protests
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Support We do not usually allow current/past distinctions in categories, because we cannot be sure things will be moved when they cease to be ongoing.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:24, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Collection: Many different categories in Wikipedia (such as
Category:Living people) depend on a temporal distinction. These categories have to be, and most often are, updated in due course. A concentration of ongoing protests in a single category is useful for multiple purposes. To give just three examples, this category serves: (1) readers who are looking for a recent protests, discussed in the news or some other forum, but are not certain of its precise details; (2) readers who are making their first steps in the sociology and law - whether as students or general-interest participants - and wish to read about present protests to understand the current operation of the case; (3) law and sociology students, and perhaps practitioners, who require a list of ongoing protests cases - a feature that even well-established legal research platforms do not provide. On the other hand, by this logic we must delete also
Category:Future events because it will be past events at some point of time. The whole
Category:Future is going to become past and we cannot be sure things would be moved when they become past.
And how category is "prone to become outdated" anymore than list? Lists contain less "obscure" topics?
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Category:Ongoing conflicts
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Support We do not usually allow current/past distinctions in categories, because we cannot be sure things will be moved when they cease to be ongoing.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:24, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Collection: Many different categories in Wikipedia (such as
Category:Living people) depend on a temporal distinction. These categories have to be, and most often are, updated in due course. A concentration of ongoing conflicts in a single category is useful for multiple purposes. To give just three examples, this category serves: (1) readers who are looking for a recent conflicts, discussed in the news or some other forum, but are not certain of its precise details; (2) readers who are making their first steps in the sociology and law - whether as students or general-interest participants - and wish to read about present conflicts to understand the current operation of the case; (3) law and sociology students, and perhaps practitioners, who require a list of ongoing conflict cases - a feature that even well-established legal research platforms do not provide. On the other hand, by this logic we must delete also
Category:Future events because it will be past events at some point of time. The whole
Category:Future is going to become past and we cannot be sure things would be moved when they become past.
And how category is "prone to become outdated" anymore than list? Lists contain less "obscure" topics?
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Category:Ongoing insurgencies
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Support We do not usually allow current/past distinctions in categories, because we cannot be sure things will be moved when they cease to be ongoing.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:24, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Collection: Many different categories in Wikipedia (such as
Category:Living people) depend on a temporal distinction. These categories have to be, and most often are, updated in due course. A concentration of ongoing insurgencies in a single category is useful for multiple purposes. To give just three examples, this category serves: (1) readers who are looking for a recent insurgency, discussed in the news or some other forum, but are not certain of its precise details; (2) readers who are making their first steps in the sociology and law - whether as students or general-interest participants - and wish to read about present insurgencies to understand the current operation of the case; (3) law and sociology students, and perhaps practitioners, who require a list of ongoing insurgency cases - a feature that even well-established legal research platforms do not provide. On the other hand, by this logic we must delete also
Category:Future events because it will be past events at some point of time. The whole
Category:Future is going to become past and we cannot be sure things would be moved when they become past.
And how category is "prone to become outdated" anymore than list? Lists contain less "obscure" topics?
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Further comment - If you do not like my suggestion, please suggest something better. We need to draw a distinction between medieval and early modern historians who become a source for contemporary writers of history and modern historians who happen to be Muslim.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:09, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Most of the articles in
Category:Muslim historians category are about medieval historians, so a better solution is selectively merging to
Category:Historians of the medieval Islamic world, I have changed the nomination accordingly. A modern scholar like
Bai Shouyi should be purged however (the article is not even clear on whether he was still a Muslim while he was a historian). If the category would be kept it would become especially awkward when articles would be added about modern Muslim historians who write about the history of e.g. England. So far that has not happened yet, but the category title does not exclude that possibility.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:20, 10 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom. Do not think religious status of historians is something that should be highlighted - can lead to bad places like discounting work because it's not the "right" religion. (Yes,
Category:Jewish historians exists and is also a bit problematic, but that's officially categorization by ethnic group and not religion.)
SnowFire (
talk)
03:34, 15 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fight Club (franchise)
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Keep, the category contains articles about the same subject in different media (film, novel, comics, video game), that makes it a franchise category.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
07:13, 1 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Big Bang Entertainments
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Category:British viceroys educated at Eton College
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The result of the discussion was:merge/delete as an example of overcategorization. The articles here should already be categorized according to their occupations. bibliomaniac1503:42, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
The great majority of these are not "viceroys" AT ALL, but governors of Gibraltar, Kenya etc. As
Viceroy#British_Empire makes very clear, only governors of India and Ireland, at various points in the 19th century, were ever referred to as the "viceroy". Merge most to
Category:British colonial governors and administrators. The parent "Viceroys of the British monarch" should be urgently renamed too. How have we had this nonsense since 2007? The Etonians should be non-diffusing, or merged back to the main cat.
Johnbod (
talk)
04:31, 24 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Merge somehow, I can see that the parent category is too large, but a by-century split would be far more natural than a split by a later occupation that people did not have yet when they were studying at this school.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
05:21, 24 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Categories are not meant to make a point. Besides the existence of the category does not even make the point you describe. The fact that some governors were educated at Eton does not prove that there is a correlation.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
20:39, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
No objection to renaming. I thought some of them might be viceroys of other countries, but they dont seem to be. Viceroys seemss to be the generic term for a wide range of posts with different names. This categorisation seems a lot more significant to these people's careers than recording where they were born.
Rathfelder (
talk)
07:48, 24 October 2022 (UTC)reply
No "viceroy" ISN'T "the generic term for a wide range of posts with different names" AT ALL!! Evidence for this? It would be "colonial governor" or "colonial administrator" (for British ones).
Johnbod (
talk)
17:43, 25 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Yes, and that's a mistake. The whole "viceroy" tree is infected, and should be renamed. Every diplomat is a "representative" of their "principal". But at least the situation in the British Empire is clear enough, and we should use the correct terms.
Johnbod (
talk)
18:10, 25 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Keep -- The name is long enough already. It is unfortunate that the parent is called "viceroys" when that title was only used for the ruler of India. The rest of the content relates to Governors-General, Colonial Governors, etc. Spain had viceroys in Spanish America. I cannot think of the term being used much elsewhere. The possibility of a person other than a British subject (including Commonwealth) being the local governing representative of the British crown is remote, so that the present name is not misleading.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
19:02, 24 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Merge or Delete. This intersection of school and occupation is pure overcategorisation. Another problem is that in many cases it highlights one particular part of an individual's career over the others. Note that most of these individuals will already be in the specific category for their governorship(s) so in most cases a merge to
Category:British colonial governors and administrators will be unnecessary. --
Necrothesp (
talk)
13:53, 15 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:ICC T20 World Cup Qualifier
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Nominator's rationale: Due to the renaming in the phrase of the tournament in 2018, already 2022 tournament category page renamed for this reason. Also women's tournament evolving simultaneously and accurate title name phrasing could be inevitable among articles and categories.
Kirubar (
talk)
16:18, 9 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:ICC T20 World Cup-related lists
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Nominator's rationale: Due to the renaming in the phrase of the tournament in 2018, already 2022 tournament category page renamed for this reason. Also women's tournament evolving simultaneously and accurate title name phrasing could be inevitable among articles and categories.
Kirubar (
talk)
16:17, 9 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:ICC T20 World Cup tournaments
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Nominator's rationale: Due to the renaming in the phrase of the tournament in 2018, already 2022 tournament category page renamed for this reason. Also women's tournament evolving simultaneously and accurate title name phrasing could be inevitable among articles and categories.
Kirubar (
talk)
16:15, 9 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:ICC T20 World Cup squads
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Nominator's rationale: Due to the renaming in the phrase of the tournament in 2018, already 2022 tournament category page renamed for this reason.
Kirubar (
talk)
16:13, 9 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:ICC T20 World Cup Finals
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Nominator's rationale: Due to the renaming in the phrase of the tournament in 2018, already 2022 tournament category page renamed for this reason.
Kirubar (
talk)
16:12, 9 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:Polish-American Roman Catholic parishes in Brooklyn
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Nominator's rationale:Upmerge, unnecessary category with only one member page and only one parent. The member page is already in another Brooklyn churches category. –
FayenaticLondon16:08, 9 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Medicine by caliphate
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Support at the bottom of Science in the Fatimid Caliphate, I found one man described as a mathematician, astronomer and physicist,
Ibn al-Haytham, who is well-categorised already. All the rest seemed to be medics. The tree needs a lot of simplification.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
19:15, 12 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:Singlechart called without song
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Support: I was wondering why all these "singlechart" categories haven't been renamed. I think it's time we start working on that.
ResPM (
T🔈🎵C)
17:07, 9 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:Civilization museums
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Category:Heads of state of Egypt
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Category:Disney protagonists
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Delete. Recently created category of unclear inclusion criteria by newish CIR-banned user. Note that I think that essentially all "Categorization by status as protagonist" is incorrect and should be deleted, but CFDs have failed on such grounds before; that said, don't let the sickness spread further.
SnowFire (
talk)
03:30, 15 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:Ongoing events
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Since these five nominations share a common rationle and concern similar categories, they could have been bundled into one CfD. Definitely delete all based on the observation that unlike lists such as
List of ongoing armed conflicts, category membership is prone to becoming outdated, since many articles on obscure topics don't get updated for years. And several current-events lists have been deleted at AfD for a similar reason, such as
List of currently erupting volcanoes. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄)
02:19, 2 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Support We do not usually allow current/past distinctions in categories, because we cannot be sure things will be moved when they cease to be ongoing. The better solution is to place items in a 2022 category.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:26, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose By this logic we must delete also
Category:Future events because it will be past events at some point of time. The whole
Category:Future is going to become past and we cannot be sure things would be moved when they become past.
And how category is "prone to become outdated" anymore than list? Lists contain less "obscure" topics?
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Category:Ongoing legal cases
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I suppose in the case law by year tree the articles are categorized based on the concluding year only (correct me if I am wrong). For that reason the nominated category might be kept as a maintenance category.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
05:54, 2 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Support We do not usually allow current/past distinctions in categories, because we cannot be sure things will be moved when they cease to be ongoing. This applies particularly because legal cases should be soon over.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:25, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Many different categories in Wikipedia (such as
Category:Living people) depend on a temporal distinction. These categories have to be, and most often are, updated in due course. A concentration of ongoing legal cases in a single category is useful for multiple purposes. To give just three examples, this category serves: (1) readers who are looking for a recent case, discussed in the news or some other forum, but are not certain of its precise details; (2) readers who are making their first steps in the law - whether as students or general-interest participants - and wish to read about present legal cases to understand the current operation of the law; (3) law students, and perhaps legal practitioners, who require a list of ongoing legal cases, from multiple jurisdictions - a feature that even well-established legal research platforms do not provide. In addition, contrary to
Peterkingiron's comment, many legal cases are not over so quickly. Finally,
Marcocapelle's comment, about maintaining the category as a maintenance category, can also be supported.
A.R. (
talk)
17:12, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:Ongoing protests
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Support We do not usually allow current/past distinctions in categories, because we cannot be sure things will be moved when they cease to be ongoing.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:24, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Collection: Many different categories in Wikipedia (such as
Category:Living people) depend on a temporal distinction. These categories have to be, and most often are, updated in due course. A concentration of ongoing protests in a single category is useful for multiple purposes. To give just three examples, this category serves: (1) readers who are looking for a recent protests, discussed in the news or some other forum, but are not certain of its precise details; (2) readers who are making their first steps in the sociology and law - whether as students or general-interest participants - and wish to read about present protests to understand the current operation of the case; (3) law and sociology students, and perhaps practitioners, who require a list of ongoing protests cases - a feature that even well-established legal research platforms do not provide. On the other hand, by this logic we must delete also
Category:Future events because it will be past events at some point of time. The whole
Category:Future is going to become past and we cannot be sure things would be moved when they become past.
And how category is "prone to become outdated" anymore than list? Lists contain less "obscure" topics?
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Category:Ongoing conflicts
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Support We do not usually allow current/past distinctions in categories, because we cannot be sure things will be moved when they cease to be ongoing.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:24, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Collection: Many different categories in Wikipedia (such as
Category:Living people) depend on a temporal distinction. These categories have to be, and most often are, updated in due course. A concentration of ongoing conflicts in a single category is useful for multiple purposes. To give just three examples, this category serves: (1) readers who are looking for a recent conflicts, discussed in the news or some other forum, but are not certain of its precise details; (2) readers who are making their first steps in the sociology and law - whether as students or general-interest participants - and wish to read about present conflicts to understand the current operation of the case; (3) law and sociology students, and perhaps practitioners, who require a list of ongoing conflict cases - a feature that even well-established legal research platforms do not provide. On the other hand, by this logic we must delete also
Category:Future events because it will be past events at some point of time. The whole
Category:Future is going to become past and we cannot be sure things would be moved when they become past.
And how category is "prone to become outdated" anymore than list? Lists contain less "obscure" topics?
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Category:Ongoing insurgencies
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Support We do not usually allow current/past distinctions in categories, because we cannot be sure things will be moved when they cease to be ongoing.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:24, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Collection: Many different categories in Wikipedia (such as
Category:Living people) depend on a temporal distinction. These categories have to be, and most often are, updated in due course. A concentration of ongoing insurgencies in a single category is useful for multiple purposes. To give just three examples, this category serves: (1) readers who are looking for a recent insurgency, discussed in the news or some other forum, but are not certain of its precise details; (2) readers who are making their first steps in the sociology and law - whether as students or general-interest participants - and wish to read about present insurgencies to understand the current operation of the case; (3) law and sociology students, and perhaps practitioners, who require a list of ongoing insurgency cases - a feature that even well-established legal research platforms do not provide. On the other hand, by this logic we must delete also
Category:Future events because it will be past events at some point of time. The whole
Category:Future is going to become past and we cannot be sure things would be moved when they become past.
And how category is "prone to become outdated" anymore than list? Lists contain less "obscure" topics?
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Further comment - If you do not like my suggestion, please suggest something better. We need to draw a distinction between medieval and early modern historians who become a source for contemporary writers of history and modern historians who happen to be Muslim.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:09, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Most of the articles in
Category:Muslim historians category are about medieval historians, so a better solution is selectively merging to
Category:Historians of the medieval Islamic world, I have changed the nomination accordingly. A modern scholar like
Bai Shouyi should be purged however (the article is not even clear on whether he was still a Muslim while he was a historian). If the category would be kept it would become especially awkward when articles would be added about modern Muslim historians who write about the history of e.g. England. So far that has not happened yet, but the category title does not exclude that possibility.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:20, 10 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom. Do not think religious status of historians is something that should be highlighted - can lead to bad places like discounting work because it's not the "right" religion. (Yes,
Category:Jewish historians exists and is also a bit problematic, but that's officially categorization by ethnic group and not religion.)
SnowFire (
talk)
03:34, 15 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fight Club (franchise)
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Keep, the category contains articles about the same subject in different media (film, novel, comics, video game), that makes it a franchise category.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
07:13, 1 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Big Bang Entertainments
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Category:British viceroys educated at Eton College
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The result of the discussion was:merge/delete as an example of overcategorization. The articles here should already be categorized according to their occupations. bibliomaniac1503:42, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
The great majority of these are not "viceroys" AT ALL, but governors of Gibraltar, Kenya etc. As
Viceroy#British_Empire makes very clear, only governors of India and Ireland, at various points in the 19th century, were ever referred to as the "viceroy". Merge most to
Category:British colonial governors and administrators. The parent "Viceroys of the British monarch" should be urgently renamed too. How have we had this nonsense since 2007? The Etonians should be non-diffusing, or merged back to the main cat.
Johnbod (
talk)
04:31, 24 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Merge somehow, I can see that the parent category is too large, but a by-century split would be far more natural than a split by a later occupation that people did not have yet when they were studying at this school.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
05:21, 24 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Categories are not meant to make a point. Besides the existence of the category does not even make the point you describe. The fact that some governors were educated at Eton does not prove that there is a correlation.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
20:39, 26 October 2022 (UTC)reply
No objection to renaming. I thought some of them might be viceroys of other countries, but they dont seem to be. Viceroys seemss to be the generic term for a wide range of posts with different names. This categorisation seems a lot more significant to these people's careers than recording where they were born.
Rathfelder (
talk)
07:48, 24 October 2022 (UTC)reply
No "viceroy" ISN'T "the generic term for a wide range of posts with different names" AT ALL!! Evidence for this? It would be "colonial governor" or "colonial administrator" (for British ones).
Johnbod (
talk)
17:43, 25 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Yes, and that's a mistake. The whole "viceroy" tree is infected, and should be renamed. Every diplomat is a "representative" of their "principal". But at least the situation in the British Empire is clear enough, and we should use the correct terms.
Johnbod (
talk)
18:10, 25 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Keep -- The name is long enough already. It is unfortunate that the parent is called "viceroys" when that title was only used for the ruler of India. The rest of the content relates to Governors-General, Colonial Governors, etc. Spain had viceroys in Spanish America. I cannot think of the term being used much elsewhere. The possibility of a person other than a British subject (including Commonwealth) being the local governing representative of the British crown is remote, so that the present name is not misleading.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
19:02, 24 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Merge or Delete. This intersection of school and occupation is pure overcategorisation. Another problem is that in many cases it highlights one particular part of an individual's career over the others. Note that most of these individuals will already be in the specific category for their governorship(s) so in most cases a merge to
Category:British colonial governors and administrators will be unnecessary. --
Necrothesp (
talk)
13:53, 15 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:ICC T20 World Cup Qualifier
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Nominator's rationale: Due to the renaming in the phrase of the tournament in 2018, already 2022 tournament category page renamed for this reason. Also women's tournament evolving simultaneously and accurate title name phrasing could be inevitable among articles and categories.
Kirubar (
talk)
16:18, 9 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:ICC T20 World Cup-related lists
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Nominator's rationale: Due to the renaming in the phrase of the tournament in 2018, already 2022 tournament category page renamed for this reason. Also women's tournament evolving simultaneously and accurate title name phrasing could be inevitable among articles and categories.
Kirubar (
talk)
16:17, 9 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:ICC T20 World Cup tournaments
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Nominator's rationale: Due to the renaming in the phrase of the tournament in 2018, already 2022 tournament category page renamed for this reason. Also women's tournament evolving simultaneously and accurate title name phrasing could be inevitable among articles and categories.
Kirubar (
talk)
16:15, 9 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:ICC T20 World Cup squads
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Nominator's rationale: Due to the renaming in the phrase of the tournament in 2018, already 2022 tournament category page renamed for this reason.
Kirubar (
talk)
16:13, 9 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:ICC T20 World Cup Finals
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Nominator's rationale: Due to the renaming in the phrase of the tournament in 2018, already 2022 tournament category page renamed for this reason.
Kirubar (
talk)
16:12, 9 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:Polish-American Roman Catholic parishes in Brooklyn
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Nominator's rationale:Upmerge, unnecessary category with only one member page and only one parent. The member page is already in another Brooklyn churches category. –
FayenaticLondon16:08, 9 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Medicine by caliphate
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Support at the bottom of Science in the Fatimid Caliphate, I found one man described as a mathematician, astronomer and physicist,
Ibn al-Haytham, who is well-categorised already. All the rest seemed to be medics. The tree needs a lot of simplification.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
19:15, 12 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:Singlechart called without song
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Support: I was wondering why all these "singlechart" categories haven't been renamed. I think it's time we start working on that.
ResPM (
T🔈🎵C)
17:07, 9 November 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:Civilization museums
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Category:Heads of state of Egypt
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