The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: + create new cat for Twin-stick shooters. Many articles on the cat do not use joysticks, use a single joystick, or dont fit the category of "Twin-stick shooters". Propose making a new cat for twin stick shooters if needed.
PerryPerryDTalk To Me17:51, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
I can see the motive behind changing from Multidirectional to Twin-stick shooters, but some accuracy was lost in the process. We should figure out how to split these, since so many multi-directional shooters aren't played with the "twin stick" control scheme.
Shooterwalker (
talk)
19:08, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Twin-stick shooter is a subcategory of Multidirectional shooter. So the right course of action would be to rename the old category back, make the new category a subcategory of the old ones, and move any actual twin-stick shooters in the main category into the subcategory. At least that way the category names aren't inaccurate during the moving process - just a bit broad.
ReneeWrites (
talk)
20:24, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:People educated at British public schools
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Delete or rename "Public school" is a term notoriously difficult to pin down with numerous different definitions that produce different lists (not everyone takes HMC membership as the sole definition) and little agreement beyond Eton, Harrow and a few others always being on them. It's even worse with Scotland where the term has historically been used for both fee paying schools and state schools and these days doesn't seem to be used that much at all. And it's not clear what the term is in Northern Ireland at all - all the HMC members seem to be "voluntary grammar schools". Many schools have shifted their status throughout their history which causes confusion - e.g. did Theresa May go to a comprehensive school? Did Sir Keir Starmer go to a private school? (In both cases the school changed status after they had started.) Simply renaming is tricky as there are many different types of fee paying schools (there are many fee paying faith schools that are far closer to state schools than HMC) so delete is probably best.
Timrollpickering (
talk)
17:23, 23 October 2022 (UTC)reply
It makes complete sense. Independent schools are defined by how the schools are funded, not a single experience. "Public school" is not a clearly defined term with a single canonical list.
Timrollpickering (
talk)
00:50, 25 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The articles about the schools all start along the lines of "Charterhouse is a public school (English independent boarding school for pupils aged 13–18) ....". The categorisation clearly needs a lot of work but I think "independent schools" would be misleading.
Rathfelder (
talk)
08:12, 27 October 2022 (UTC)reply
We need to think about the title and the exclusion criteria. I did find one article about a school
Greenford High School which didnt seem to be like other public schools, but its former head was a member of the HMC. There arent many girls schools in the HMC, and of course some of the schools have closed or merged.
Rathfelder (
talk)
07:47, 29 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The comment (by a now blocked user) about not all HMC schools being the same is very telling. Trying to categorise people by membership of an organisation made up of school heads without a clear unambiguous use of the organisation to define a set of institutions is rather convoluted. Just delete as the easiest solution.
Timrollpickering (
talk)
11:56, 4 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Given the difficulties involved with this scheme and the blocking of Rathfelder I too believe that delete is now the easiest solution. There is a 'judges' subcat that might need attention.
Oculi (
talk)
16:31, 6 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Keep but use a headnote to define the scope as related to HMC. The common term is Public School, though it is in a way a misleading term. I am sorry to learn that Rathfelder has been blocked as I regarded him as making useful contributions. The corollary to Public School used to be State school, meaning state-funded. Some of these were council-owned; others were voluntary-aided or voluntary-controlled, according to whether there was a foundation responsible for providing capital funding for buildings etc. However this has been complicated by the rise of academies. The ultimate difference is whether the funding is or is not mainly from the state.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
15:41, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Keep; the added tagline 'This category is for people educated at schools whose headteacher is a member of the Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference' is helpful. The list of schools now appears to be a list of institutions where the head is a member. 'HMC membership' is the widest/loosest definition of a public school, so I would keep it as it stands and not try and include a further expansion to ~1400 'independent schools'.
Hjamesberglen (
talk)
11:32, 15 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Keep. The most common definition of a public school is one whose head is a member of HMC. As has already been stated, almost every one of these should be regarded as notable. There is no value in changing the scope. --
Necrothesp (
talk)
13:46, 15 November 2022 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: + create new cat for Twin-stick shooters. Many articles on the cat do not use joysticks, use a single joystick, or dont fit the category of "Twin-stick shooters". Propose making a new cat for twin stick shooters if needed.
PerryPerryDTalk To Me17:51, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
I can see the motive behind changing from Multidirectional to Twin-stick shooters, but some accuracy was lost in the process. We should figure out how to split these, since so many multi-directional shooters aren't played with the "twin stick" control scheme.
Shooterwalker (
talk)
19:08, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Twin-stick shooter is a subcategory of Multidirectional shooter. So the right course of action would be to rename the old category back, make the new category a subcategory of the old ones, and move any actual twin-stick shooters in the main category into the subcategory. At least that way the category names aren't inaccurate during the moving process - just a bit broad.
ReneeWrites (
talk)
20:24, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:People educated at British public schools
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Delete or rename "Public school" is a term notoriously difficult to pin down with numerous different definitions that produce different lists (not everyone takes HMC membership as the sole definition) and little agreement beyond Eton, Harrow and a few others always being on them. It's even worse with Scotland where the term has historically been used for both fee paying schools and state schools and these days doesn't seem to be used that much at all. And it's not clear what the term is in Northern Ireland at all - all the HMC members seem to be "voluntary grammar schools". Many schools have shifted their status throughout their history which causes confusion - e.g. did Theresa May go to a comprehensive school? Did Sir Keir Starmer go to a private school? (In both cases the school changed status after they had started.) Simply renaming is tricky as there are many different types of fee paying schools (there are many fee paying faith schools that are far closer to state schools than HMC) so delete is probably best.
Timrollpickering (
talk)
17:23, 23 October 2022 (UTC)reply
It makes complete sense. Independent schools are defined by how the schools are funded, not a single experience. "Public school" is not a clearly defined term with a single canonical list.
Timrollpickering (
talk)
00:50, 25 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The articles about the schools all start along the lines of "Charterhouse is a public school (English independent boarding school for pupils aged 13–18) ....". The categorisation clearly needs a lot of work but I think "independent schools" would be misleading.
Rathfelder (
talk)
08:12, 27 October 2022 (UTC)reply
We need to think about the title and the exclusion criteria. I did find one article about a school
Greenford High School which didnt seem to be like other public schools, but its former head was a member of the HMC. There arent many girls schools in the HMC, and of course some of the schools have closed or merged.
Rathfelder (
talk)
07:47, 29 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The comment (by a now blocked user) about not all HMC schools being the same is very telling. Trying to categorise people by membership of an organisation made up of school heads without a clear unambiguous use of the organisation to define a set of institutions is rather convoluted. Just delete as the easiest solution.
Timrollpickering (
talk)
11:56, 4 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Given the difficulties involved with this scheme and the blocking of Rathfelder I too believe that delete is now the easiest solution. There is a 'judges' subcat that might need attention.
Oculi (
talk)
16:31, 6 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Keep but use a headnote to define the scope as related to HMC. The common term is Public School, though it is in a way a misleading term. I am sorry to learn that Rathfelder has been blocked as I regarded him as making useful contributions. The corollary to Public School used to be State school, meaning state-funded. Some of these were council-owned; others were voluntary-aided or voluntary-controlled, according to whether there was a foundation responsible for providing capital funding for buildings etc. However this has been complicated by the rise of academies. The ultimate difference is whether the funding is or is not mainly from the state.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
15:41, 7 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Keep; the added tagline 'This category is for people educated at schools whose headteacher is a member of the Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference' is helpful. The list of schools now appears to be a list of institutions where the head is a member. 'HMC membership' is the widest/loosest definition of a public school, so I would keep it as it stands and not try and include a further expansion to ~1400 'independent schools'.
Hjamesberglen (
talk)
11:32, 15 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Keep. The most common definition of a public school is one whose head is a member of HMC. As has already been stated, almost every one of these should be regarded as notable. There is no value in changing the scope. --
Necrothesp (
talk)
13:46, 15 November 2022 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.