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Nominator's rationale: These are all places where the Anglican and Roman Catholic churches both have bishoprics with the same name. The change is to distinguish them in line with common practice in this hierarchy.
htonl (
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22:15, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:16th-century British architects
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Comment -- These are merely container categories and thus fairly harmless. From 1603, there was a single monarch (with two Parliaments), so that the existence of the 17th century category at least is not totally ridiculous.
Peterkingiron (
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17:07, 23 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Public domain images ineligible for copyright in the United States but not in their source countries
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1. Images -> files is because all files are not images but all images are files.
2. If something is in the public domain, then it goes without saying that it is ineligible for copyright, so to write "Public domain images that are ineligible for copyright" seems to be unnecessary.
Jonteemil (
talk)
15:43, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. Could that be US instead of United States just in order to shorten the term? Other ideas to reshape it to be more like *short and crisp*? --
Just N. (
talk)
16:33, 26 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Austrian and Austro-Hungarian sailplanes
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Actually, this is part of a larger set of aircraft categories mostly populated by automated templates. After doing a number of changes on these templates, I now suggest keeping only the Austrian and Austro-Hungarian foo-type aircraft categories for consistency with the larger set and for better navigation.
Place Clichy (
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13:58, 26 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Economic history of the Holy Roman Empire
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Anglican bishops in Nigeria
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Category:Marketing research companies by country
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Nominator's rationale: we probably do not need a by-country hierarchy for just 2 companies, which duplicate a well-established hierarchy. "Market research" seems to be actually more defining according to the Brazilian company's article, while the article about the American company, which does customer experience and surveys, never cites "marketing research" outside of its infobox.
Place Clichy (
talk)
13:57, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Strongly Oppose: In the United States,
Market Research and
Marketing Research are quite distinct. In other countries, the same service unit may do both. To merge the by-country and include USA is inappropriate, since the whole point of the categorization is to allow finding articles; this merge would confuse things.
Pi314m (
talk)
17:19, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Besides the Strange Use Of Capitals, if this notion is
defining for these organizations they may be placed at ‹The
templateCategory link is being
considered for merging.›Category:Marketing research. There is just no need to create a by-country hierarchy of categories for so few articles, and stranded categories with a lonely article are the opposite of allowing better finding articles. However by looking at these articles they do not seem to be strongly defined by this notion.
Place Clichy (
talk)
19:10, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
The question for this category of companies is not whether the different terms exist but whether companies consistently specialize in one or the other. As there is only one company in the US category which is about a company that specializes in neither of the two, the answer is clearly no.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
17:43, 27 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge there is no clear evidence that the notion that the market/marketing specialization difference is enough to be defining. There is also no justification for having a 3 category tree with just 2 articles total.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
13:14, 2 June 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fictional characters with moustaches
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Dominican Republic people by Chinese language group descent
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Dutch people by Chinese language group descent
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Guyanese people by Chinese language group descent
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Mauritian people by Chinese language group descent
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Mexican people by Chinese language group descent
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South African people by Chinese language group descent
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Surinamese people by Chinese language group descent
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Trinidad and Tobago people by Chinese language group descent
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Comment (applying to this and several others above). I note that my objection to the British precedent was not accepted. This may be appropriate in lands far from China, but there is a considerable diaspora of Chinese from Hokkien (and perhaps other southern provinces) throughout southeast Asia, who do not necessarily speak English and may still speak their specific Chinese dialect. We should not be merging these with Han Chinese. Equally, many emigrants from Hong Kong are Cantonese, speaking that dialect (language) not Han Chinese. All were subjects of the Chinese Empire but that does not make them all the same: Scots are not English (though British) and similar points may be made as to other ethnicities. We normally allow categories with 5 members. In this case I would suggest that we should keep such categories if they have (say) 15 members.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:26, 23 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Although it is not the main point of the nomination, most of these categories happen to be smallcats too. Only three of these categories reach between 5 and 8 articles while many contain only one article.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
17:32, 23 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:People indicted for crimes
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Nominator's rationale: These are
mostly overlapping categories. An
indictment is a type of
criminal charge. So the nominated categories are subcategories of the target categories. There is not much point in keeping the distinction alive in category space, because for categorization purposes I don't think it's that important whether a charge is proceeded on by indictment or a less serious process like
complaint,
information, or citation. For international crimes the distinction is fairly irrelevant as charges are always pursued on indictment.
Good Ol’factory(talk)03:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge -- Indictment is a stage in the criminal process, after charge. The precise procedure will vary from country to country, but charge will cover it all. I would suggest a headnote to exclude those convicted, so that this is for those whose trial is pending, or who died before trial or are fugitives.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:30, 23 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Prisoners sentenced to death
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Nominator's rationale: These are
mostly overlapping categories. The target category is slightly broader than the nominated category, since people can be sentenced to death in absentia, for instance. I don't think there's a good reason for keeping the distinction between these two alive in category space.
Good Ol’factory(talk)03:40, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Mental states in Csikszentmihalyi's flow model
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Category:Mystical Seven (Missouri)
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Category:Illuminati members
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There's two issues going on here because, as the
Illuminati articles explains that this term can refer to several organizations, both real and fictional. About half the articles I looked at, like
Jens Baggesen and
Rudolph Zacharias Becker, make no mention to the organization so there may be off Wikipedia sources, rumor, or
WP:OR involved. The other half were members of a real Bavarian organization but, like most memberships, it's non-defining like with
Jacob Friedrich von Abel and
Karl Friedrich Bahrdt. None of these articles seemed defined by this (alleged or actual) membership. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:30, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. This is fringe material that can only be OR. As the Illuminati were a secret organisation, nobody can determine for sure who were the members, if they existed at all. As nominator explains, it can therefore not be defining.
Place Clichy (
talk)
14:09, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Nune Yesayan albums
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Nominator's rationale: Category with one redirect for an album with no information about it in the target article beyond being part of the artist's discography. Unhelpful category for navigation. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me00:23, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Persons charged under the Hong Kong national security law
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Is there another "Espionage Act of 1917"? Just because a reader is not familiar with the subject when they first see it doesn't mean it needs to be disambiguated.
Good Ol’factory(talk)00:40, 28 May 2021 (UTC)reply
It's not about disambiguation but to give respect to the fact that English language Wikipedia is global. Non-American users should have orientation at first sight that's about American law history. --
Just N. (
talk)
15:46, 29 May 2021 (UTC)reply
By proposing a disambiguating term you have made it about disambiguation. But in any case, if we start down that path there are plenty of other categories that aren't readily understood by everyone on first glance. We follow the main article name for convenience and consistency.
Good Ol’factory(talk)01:14, 31 May 2021 (UTC)reply
rename per nom as category names usually use "people" rather than "persons". The rest of the discussion above is not relevant to helping out the name of this category and this law, which was often used for political persecution, not actual acts.
Hmains (
talk)
00:11, 21 June 2021 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's rationale: These are all places where the Anglican and Roman Catholic churches both have bishoprics with the same name. The change is to distinguish them in line with common practice in this hierarchy.
htonl (
talk)
22:15, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:16th-century British architects
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Comment -- These are merely container categories and thus fairly harmless. From 1603, there was a single monarch (with two Parliaments), so that the existence of the 17th century category at least is not totally ridiculous.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:07, 23 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Public domain images ineligible for copyright in the United States but not in their source countries
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1. Images -> files is because all files are not images but all images are files.
2. If something is in the public domain, then it goes without saying that it is ineligible for copyright, so to write "Public domain images that are ineligible for copyright" seems to be unnecessary.
Jonteemil (
talk)
15:43, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. Could that be US instead of United States just in order to shorten the term? Other ideas to reshape it to be more like *short and crisp*? --
Just N. (
talk)
16:33, 26 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Austrian and Austro-Hungarian sailplanes
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Actually, this is part of a larger set of aircraft categories mostly populated by automated templates. After doing a number of changes on these templates, I now suggest keeping only the Austrian and Austro-Hungarian foo-type aircraft categories for consistency with the larger set and for better navigation.
Place Clichy (
talk)
13:58, 26 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Economic history of the Holy Roman Empire
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Anglican bishops in Nigeria
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Category:Marketing research companies by country
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Nominator's rationale: we probably do not need a by-country hierarchy for just 2 companies, which duplicate a well-established hierarchy. "Market research" seems to be actually more defining according to the Brazilian company's article, while the article about the American company, which does customer experience and surveys, never cites "marketing research" outside of its infobox.
Place Clichy (
talk)
13:57, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Strongly Oppose: In the United States,
Market Research and
Marketing Research are quite distinct. In other countries, the same service unit may do both. To merge the by-country and include USA is inappropriate, since the whole point of the categorization is to allow finding articles; this merge would confuse things.
Pi314m (
talk)
17:19, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Besides the Strange Use Of Capitals, if this notion is
defining for these organizations they may be placed at ‹The
templateCategory link is being
considered for merging.›Category:Marketing research. There is just no need to create a by-country hierarchy of categories for so few articles, and stranded categories with a lonely article are the opposite of allowing better finding articles. However by looking at these articles they do not seem to be strongly defined by this notion.
Place Clichy (
talk)
19:10, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
The question for this category of companies is not whether the different terms exist but whether companies consistently specialize in one or the other. As there is only one company in the US category which is about a company that specializes in neither of the two, the answer is clearly no.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
17:43, 27 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge there is no clear evidence that the notion that the market/marketing specialization difference is enough to be defining. There is also no justification for having a 3 category tree with just 2 articles total.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
13:14, 2 June 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fictional characters with moustaches
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Dominican Republic people by Chinese language group descent
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Dutch people by Chinese language group descent
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Guyanese people by Chinese language group descent
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Mauritian people by Chinese language group descent
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Mexican people by Chinese language group descent
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South African people by Chinese language group descent
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Surinamese people by Chinese language group descent
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Trinidad and Tobago people by Chinese language group descent
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Comment (applying to this and several others above). I note that my objection to the British precedent was not accepted. This may be appropriate in lands far from China, but there is a considerable diaspora of Chinese from Hokkien (and perhaps other southern provinces) throughout southeast Asia, who do not necessarily speak English and may still speak their specific Chinese dialect. We should not be merging these with Han Chinese. Equally, many emigrants from Hong Kong are Cantonese, speaking that dialect (language) not Han Chinese. All were subjects of the Chinese Empire but that does not make them all the same: Scots are not English (though British) and similar points may be made as to other ethnicities. We normally allow categories with 5 members. In this case I would suggest that we should keep such categories if they have (say) 15 members.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:26, 23 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Although it is not the main point of the nomination, most of these categories happen to be smallcats too. Only three of these categories reach between 5 and 8 articles while many contain only one article.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
17:32, 23 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:People indicted for crimes
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Nominator's rationale: These are
mostly overlapping categories. An
indictment is a type of
criminal charge. So the nominated categories are subcategories of the target categories. There is not much point in keeping the distinction alive in category space, because for categorization purposes I don't think it's that important whether a charge is proceeded on by indictment or a less serious process like
complaint,
information, or citation. For international crimes the distinction is fairly irrelevant as charges are always pursued on indictment.
Good Ol’factory(talk)03:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge -- Indictment is a stage in the criminal process, after charge. The precise procedure will vary from country to country, but charge will cover it all. I would suggest a headnote to exclude those convicted, so that this is for those whose trial is pending, or who died before trial or are fugitives.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:30, 23 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Prisoners sentenced to death
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Nominator's rationale: These are
mostly overlapping categories. The target category is slightly broader than the nominated category, since people can be sentenced to death in absentia, for instance. I don't think there's a good reason for keeping the distinction between these two alive in category space.
Good Ol’factory(talk)03:40, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Mental states in Csikszentmihalyi's flow model
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Category:Mystical Seven (Missouri)
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Category:Illuminati members
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There's two issues going on here because, as the
Illuminati articles explains that this term can refer to several organizations, both real and fictional. About half the articles I looked at, like
Jens Baggesen and
Rudolph Zacharias Becker, make no mention to the organization so there may be off Wikipedia sources, rumor, or
WP:OR involved. The other half were members of a real Bavarian organization but, like most memberships, it's non-defining like with
Jacob Friedrich von Abel and
Karl Friedrich Bahrdt. None of these articles seemed defined by this (alleged or actual) membership. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:30, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. This is fringe material that can only be OR. As the Illuminati were a secret organisation, nobody can determine for sure who were the members, if they existed at all. As nominator explains, it can therefore not be defining.
Place Clichy (
talk)
14:09, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Nune Yesayan albums
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Nominator's rationale: Category with one redirect for an album with no information about it in the target article beyond being part of the artist's discography. Unhelpful category for navigation. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me00:23, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Persons charged under the Hong Kong national security law
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Is there another "Espionage Act of 1917"? Just because a reader is not familiar with the subject when they first see it doesn't mean it needs to be disambiguated.
Good Ol’factory(talk)00:40, 28 May 2021 (UTC)reply
It's not about disambiguation but to give respect to the fact that English language Wikipedia is global. Non-American users should have orientation at first sight that's about American law history. --
Just N. (
talk)
15:46, 29 May 2021 (UTC)reply
By proposing a disambiguating term you have made it about disambiguation. But in any case, if we start down that path there are plenty of other categories that aren't readily understood by everyone on first glance. We follow the main article name for convenience and consistency.
Good Ol’factory(talk)01:14, 31 May 2021 (UTC)reply
rename per nom as category names usually use "people" rather than "persons". The rest of the discussion above is not relevant to helping out the name of this category and this law, which was often used for political persecution, not actual acts.
Hmains (
talk)
00:11, 21 June 2021 (UTC)reply
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