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July 19

Category:Sleeper hits

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac 1 5 05:25, 22 August 2021 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: completely arbitrary classification: what is the consistent criteria that would let articles categorized as "sleeper hits" pass WP:CATV? Joeyconnick ( talk) 20:03, 19 July 2021 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Asian-American Western (genre) films

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac 1 5 05:25, 22 August 2021 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Delete per WP:SMALLCAT as there is little chance of the category being expanded. The sole article seems to be over-categorised. No Great Shaker ( talk) 19:54, 19 July 2021 (UTC) reply
Those are all American films which feature Chinese or Japanese characters who are not necessarily American. So, as you say, the title of the category is confusing and we need to be clear about its purpose. Perhaps the most famous Western that features a character from the Far East is Red Sun but that was a European production set in America. The article in the category, Shanghai Noon, is a joint USA/Hong Kong venture and I think we need to focus on production rather than characters because the latter approach can easily become subjective. For example, The Magnificent Seven (2016 film) includes Lee Byung-hun playing a Korean but he is only one of nine stars in the film so would that qualify for this category? No Great Shaker ( talk) 05:11, 20 July 2021 (UTC) reply
Fair enough. As I said, the exact idea behind this category is a bit ambiguous. Grutness... wha? 12:30, 20 July 2021 (UTC) reply
I may be conflating Once Upon a Time in China I (which had a subplot about Chinese being trafficked to America to work on the railroads) and Once Upon a Time in China and America (which I haven't seen but was apparently a sequel set not that long after the first one, in America), but... well I think this category is meant to refer to the ethnicity of the actors, not the characters. Then again, a Chinese film starring Chinese actors playing Chinese characters in America is kinda beside the point, as it doesn't seem like any Asian Americans were involved... Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 11:46, 30 July 2021 (UTC) reply
I would say not. They are by single nationality only, like Japanese. No Great Shaker ( talk) 11:24, 20 July 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete I also would point out that categorizing based on the race of cast members/characters is not a good move. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 19:38, 29 July 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Despite what surveys apparently show a substantial number of (white?) Americans believe, Jackie Chan is not an Asian American (did the creator of this cat think he was?); maybe if contemporary Hong Kong (China) allowed dual citizenship, he would be, but he is not, nor was his character in Shanghai Noon, in which he played a Ch'ing imperial guard. The film's director and all of its writers and producers appear to be white; not sure if they have any connection to "Asia" outside having been involved in the production of a Jackie Chan vehicle (with the exception of one Britisher and one "South African-born American", our articles on all of them just call them "American"; my assumption that they are specifically white Americans is based on an admittedly unscientific and problematic Google image search). Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 11:46, 30 July 2021 (UTC) reply
    • True, but they are unlikely to be Asian, and if it was truly defining than it would be placed in the article. On the other hand the female lead in the film Lucy Liu probably is Asian-American, seeing as how her parents were both from China, but even in her case she is just called American in the article, and a film does not become part of a genre just by virtue of the lead actresses ethnicity, down that road lies madness. Also, if this is a thing why not call it more accurately Category:Chinese American westerns, especially since we categorize by ethnicity not race? John Pack Lambert ( talk) 12:58, 20 August 2021 (UTC) reply
      • The CASAS test which I administer as part of my job asks for race, and gives the options of White, Black/African-American, Asian, Native American, Alaskan Native, Native Hawaiian, Pacific Islander and Filipino. I find it very odd that Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnmaese, Malaysian, Indonesians and many other groups are all cobbled together, but Filipinos are a seperate group. They also have a question on being Hispanic or not Hispanic. My work for the Career Center in Detroit also has me do an intake where Filipinos are cobbled with all other Asians, Alaskan Native is an alternate reading on the same line as Native American so you cannot actually distinguish which one you are, Native Hawaiian is cobbled together with "other Pacific Islander". However on ethnicity we have options of Hispanic/Latino, Middle Eastern and "none reported". I have to admit I think all the ethnicty questions and gathering I have seen are just downright horrible. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 13:12, 20 August 2021 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:High schools in Citrus Heights, California

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: dual merge ( non-admin closure) Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:28, 27 July 2021 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Dual merge to Category:High schools in Sacramento County, California. This is a WP:SMALLCAT holding only 2 articles. User:Namiba 14:20, 19 July 2021 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Western (genre) drama films by country

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge all. bibliomaniac 1 5 05:25, 22 August 2021 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: This is a follow-up to the discussions on 14 July and 18 July based on the essential points that virtually all Western films are dramas and the "Western drama" categories created by User:Sc2353 are unnecessary. No Great Shaker ( talk) 10:44, 19 July 2021 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Criticism of political correctness

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 August 22#Category:Criticism of political correctness

Category:Lost Western (genre) drama films

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Lost Western (genre) films. bibliomaniac 1 5 05:26, 22 August 2021 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Upmerge. This is a follow-up to the discussions on 14 July and 18 July based on the essential points that virtually all Western films are dramas and the "Western drama" categories created by User:Sc2353 are unnecessary. No Great Shaker ( talk) 10:31, 19 July 2021 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Emperors from Nanjing

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac 1 5 05:26, 22 August 2021 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: delete' per WP:NONDEF, the fact that Nanjing and Xi'an are former capitals is a defining characteristic of these cities, but it is not defining for any emperor. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:32, 19 July 2021 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:African-American female composers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename all. bibliomaniac 1 5 05:26, 22 August 2021 (UTC) reply
Related category renamings
Nominator's rationale: Aiming for both accuracy & consistency, as categories seem to be moving from the language of "female" to "women" (e.g. the adjacent category African-American women musicians). I assume there's probably been debate around this sort of thing, so I'm just mentioning a few smaller categories & more obvious examples––for example, Women musicians by instrument has 13 subcategories, & I've included the only 3 that are still using "female" (drummers, percussionists, singers).

Knifegames ( talk) 03:53, 19 July 2021 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2021_July_19&oldid=1073192946"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
< July 18 July 20 >

July 19

Category:Sleeper hits

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac 1 5 05:25, 22 August 2021 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: completely arbitrary classification: what is the consistent criteria that would let articles categorized as "sleeper hits" pass WP:CATV? Joeyconnick ( talk) 20:03, 19 July 2021 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Asian-American Western (genre) films

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac 1 5 05:25, 22 August 2021 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Delete per WP:SMALLCAT as there is little chance of the category being expanded. The sole article seems to be over-categorised. No Great Shaker ( talk) 19:54, 19 July 2021 (UTC) reply
Those are all American films which feature Chinese or Japanese characters who are not necessarily American. So, as you say, the title of the category is confusing and we need to be clear about its purpose. Perhaps the most famous Western that features a character from the Far East is Red Sun but that was a European production set in America. The article in the category, Shanghai Noon, is a joint USA/Hong Kong venture and I think we need to focus on production rather than characters because the latter approach can easily become subjective. For example, The Magnificent Seven (2016 film) includes Lee Byung-hun playing a Korean but he is only one of nine stars in the film so would that qualify for this category? No Great Shaker ( talk) 05:11, 20 July 2021 (UTC) reply
Fair enough. As I said, the exact idea behind this category is a bit ambiguous. Grutness... wha? 12:30, 20 July 2021 (UTC) reply
I may be conflating Once Upon a Time in China I (which had a subplot about Chinese being trafficked to America to work on the railroads) and Once Upon a Time in China and America (which I haven't seen but was apparently a sequel set not that long after the first one, in America), but... well I think this category is meant to refer to the ethnicity of the actors, not the characters. Then again, a Chinese film starring Chinese actors playing Chinese characters in America is kinda beside the point, as it doesn't seem like any Asian Americans were involved... Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 11:46, 30 July 2021 (UTC) reply
I would say not. They are by single nationality only, like Japanese. No Great Shaker ( talk) 11:24, 20 July 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete I also would point out that categorizing based on the race of cast members/characters is not a good move. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 19:38, 29 July 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Despite what surveys apparently show a substantial number of (white?) Americans believe, Jackie Chan is not an Asian American (did the creator of this cat think he was?); maybe if contemporary Hong Kong (China) allowed dual citizenship, he would be, but he is not, nor was his character in Shanghai Noon, in which he played a Ch'ing imperial guard. The film's director and all of its writers and producers appear to be white; not sure if they have any connection to "Asia" outside having been involved in the production of a Jackie Chan vehicle (with the exception of one Britisher and one "South African-born American", our articles on all of them just call them "American"; my assumption that they are specifically white Americans is based on an admittedly unscientific and problematic Google image search). Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 11:46, 30 July 2021 (UTC) reply
    • True, but they are unlikely to be Asian, and if it was truly defining than it would be placed in the article. On the other hand the female lead in the film Lucy Liu probably is Asian-American, seeing as how her parents were both from China, but even in her case she is just called American in the article, and a film does not become part of a genre just by virtue of the lead actresses ethnicity, down that road lies madness. Also, if this is a thing why not call it more accurately Category:Chinese American westerns, especially since we categorize by ethnicity not race? John Pack Lambert ( talk) 12:58, 20 August 2021 (UTC) reply
      • The CASAS test which I administer as part of my job asks for race, and gives the options of White, Black/African-American, Asian, Native American, Alaskan Native, Native Hawaiian, Pacific Islander and Filipino. I find it very odd that Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnmaese, Malaysian, Indonesians and many other groups are all cobbled together, but Filipinos are a seperate group. They also have a question on being Hispanic or not Hispanic. My work for the Career Center in Detroit also has me do an intake where Filipinos are cobbled with all other Asians, Alaskan Native is an alternate reading on the same line as Native American so you cannot actually distinguish which one you are, Native Hawaiian is cobbled together with "other Pacific Islander". However on ethnicity we have options of Hispanic/Latino, Middle Eastern and "none reported". I have to admit I think all the ethnicty questions and gathering I have seen are just downright horrible. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 13:12, 20 August 2021 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:High schools in Citrus Heights, California

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: dual merge ( non-admin closure) Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:28, 27 July 2021 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Dual merge to Category:High schools in Sacramento County, California. This is a WP:SMALLCAT holding only 2 articles. User:Namiba 14:20, 19 July 2021 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Western (genre) drama films by country

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge all. bibliomaniac 1 5 05:25, 22 August 2021 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: This is a follow-up to the discussions on 14 July and 18 July based on the essential points that virtually all Western films are dramas and the "Western drama" categories created by User:Sc2353 are unnecessary. No Great Shaker ( talk) 10:44, 19 July 2021 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Criticism of political correctness

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 August 22#Category:Criticism of political correctness

Category:Lost Western (genre) drama films

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Lost Western (genre) films. bibliomaniac 1 5 05:26, 22 August 2021 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Upmerge. This is a follow-up to the discussions on 14 July and 18 July based on the essential points that virtually all Western films are dramas and the "Western drama" categories created by User:Sc2353 are unnecessary. No Great Shaker ( talk) 10:31, 19 July 2021 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Emperors from Nanjing

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac 1 5 05:26, 22 August 2021 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: delete' per WP:NONDEF, the fact that Nanjing and Xi'an are former capitals is a defining characteristic of these cities, but it is not defining for any emperor. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:32, 19 July 2021 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:African-American female composers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename all. bibliomaniac 1 5 05:26, 22 August 2021 (UTC) reply
Related category renamings
Nominator's rationale: Aiming for both accuracy & consistency, as categories seem to be moving from the language of "female" to "women" (e.g. the adjacent category African-American women musicians). I assume there's probably been debate around this sort of thing, so I'm just mentioning a few smaller categories & more obvious examples––for example, Women musicians by instrument has 13 subcategories, & I've included the only 3 that are still using "female" (drummers, percussionists, singers).

Knifegames ( talk) 03:53, 19 July 2021 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2021_July_19&oldid=1073192946"

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