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Support Is it really self-evident that 'structures' mean infrastructure? No objection to recreating any if relevant articles ever appear. --
Just N. (
talk)
17:53, 10 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Empty American Samoa categories
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Category:Summits of the Laurentians (administrative region)
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West Indies Power
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Nominator's rationale: these 18 categories are for only one article:
West Indies Power. The article (last meaningful update in 2008) describes it as a company based in Saint Kitts and Nevis with projects of geothermal energy in Nevis, Dominica and Saba (they are Caribbean islands). It seems from a quick web search that the company never completed any of the projects and does not have any activity since 2014. Its website is offline. Regardless of the actual status of the company, I suggest upmerging these near-empty categories to the nearest non-empty parent.
Place Clichy (
talk)
16:37, 3 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose all as they are part of the Energy in country X standard category tree. If
West Indies Power will be deleted and those categories to become unpopulated, they should be deleted, of course, but in meantime they should remain to allow the standard categorization of energy related articles.
Beagel (
talk)
09:48, 5 February 2021 (UTC)reply
It will be excluded from the Geothermal power in X and Electric power in X category series, which does not serve our readers interests. Your proposal fits perfectly for the stand-alone categories, but all those categories are part of the category tree, which will be disrupted.
Beagel (
talk)
14:43, 6 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Let's say I'm a reader following that tree: what will I find exactly? I'm going to keep going to category after category and find the same article over and over again which doesn't actually contain relevant information. It's good to disrupt a tree if it doesn't aid navigation.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
05:12, 7 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Members of Governing Council Of Indian Premier League
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Empty Saba categories
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Support -- This is a typical case of bad categorisation. Saba is a small island with one airport so that there is no scope for expansion and little in sibling categories. Its airport should by directly in
Category:Airports in the Caribbean and one appropriate category for Saba or the polity on which it is dependent. This applies equally to various other Empty trees nominated below.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
19:10, 3 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bangsamoro Special Geographic Area
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Category:Wikipedia categories named after subdivisions of the United States
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Keep - the rationale is refreshingly brief, but "not a maintenance category populated by template" would cover the deletion of nearly all categories. I would not have supported the deletion of any of the past ones either - editors simply do not understand "Category:Wikipedia categories named after ..." I would leave something alone if I didn't understand it. Moreover a category containing a subcat with 177 subcats contains 177 subcats (at least) and is hardly small.
Oculi (
talk)
15:12, 10 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's rationale:WP:NOTDEFINING. No suggestion that being Jewish had any particular influence on the work of these mathematicians, per
Rathfelder.
Delete per nom, and previous discussions. These categories seem to have been copied from Hebrew Wikipedia without consideration for conventions in the English Wikipedia. Creators/copyists seem to act as if Jewish was a nationality, which it is not.
Place Clichy (
talk)
10:59, 3 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The list is irrelevant, EGRS says that it should be a notable topic in its own right. Just a list says nothing in that regard. The point is (in this case) that Jewish mathematicians should have had a different way of doing math than their gentile counterparts, as Carlossuarez46 nicely phrased it.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:55, 9 February 2021 (UTC)reply
"This is a special collection of problems that were given to select applicants during oral entrance exams to the math department of Moscow State University. These problems were designed to prevent Jews and other undesirables from getting a passing grade. Among problems that were used by the department to blackball unwanted candidate students, these problems are distinguished by having a simple solution that is difficult to find. Using problems with a simple solution protected the administration from extra complaints and appeals. This collection therefore has mathematical as well as historical value."
[2].--
Prisencolin (
talk)
11:00, 10 February 2021 (UTC)reply
What you are referring to here is a test conceived to be arbitrary enough so that an examiner could arbitrarily decide which candidate would pass based primarily on whether they liked the candidate or not. This says something about the test, and about the examiner, but it says nothing about the candidates, except the fact that Jews suffered discrimination in Russia. This in a way reminds of "literacy" and other tests used in the Southern U.S. to prevent Black people from voting, using a very similar mechanism. However, the self-contradiction between this argument and your others arguments in this discussion is smothering: at the same time, Jews would have superior cognitive functions applied to mathematics, and comparable lower results in a math test? How is that supposed to get us anywhere? Both notions are just the expression of various discarded prejudices.
Place Clichy (
talk)
15:47, 10 February 2021 (UTC)reply
In other words, this is a racist category that has been used for racist purposes at Moscow State University, and is supported by IQ "researchers" at University of Utah. The IQ tests themselves have been shown to be biased. (Speaking as somebody with a reported IQ of more than 3 standard deviations above the mean.) William Allen Simpson (
talk)
12:28, 10 February 2021 (UTC)reply
If descent from Ancient Judea was the defining factor in these mathematics skills, why would this affect only Ashkenazi Jews and not Sephardis? I guess there's nothing really related to Judaism here.
Place Clichy (
talk)
15:47, 10 February 2021 (UTC)reply
We do not remove content that can be construed as racist
WP:NOTCENSORED and all social science (and science in general), is going to be biased in some way. Some fields (like IQ research) can be criticized more frequently for their biases, but I don’t think that’s a reason to exclude
WP:POV depictions of said research on the encyclopedia.
The three countries whose subcategories are listed here are all primarily have Jewish populations which are primarily Ashkenazim in their population. Maybe the categories need to renamed to be like [[:Category: [country] Ashkenazi Jewish mathematicians]] —-
Prisencolin (
talk)
17:57, 10 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Economics and Statistics Administration images
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Category:Recipients of the Order of Military Merit (Dominican Republic)
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Category:Order of Stjepan Radić recipients
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The
Order of Stjepan Radić is given by the president of Croatia "for services and sacrifices for the national and social rights". This category has 3 articles (a President of Croatia, another prominent politician, and a war hero) who are already well categorized. Within the articles, this award gets mentioned in passing and seems to reflect their pre-existing fame rather than be defining. There wasn't a list so I cretated one right
here within the main article for any reader interested in the topic. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:19, 3 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Support Is it really self-evident that 'structures' mean infrastructure? No objection to recreating any if relevant articles ever appear. --
Just N. (
talk)
17:53, 10 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Empty American Samoa categories
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Category:Summits of the Laurentians (administrative region)
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West Indies Power
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Nominator's rationale: these 18 categories are for only one article:
West Indies Power. The article (last meaningful update in 2008) describes it as a company based in Saint Kitts and Nevis with projects of geothermal energy in Nevis, Dominica and Saba (they are Caribbean islands). It seems from a quick web search that the company never completed any of the projects and does not have any activity since 2014. Its website is offline. Regardless of the actual status of the company, I suggest upmerging these near-empty categories to the nearest non-empty parent.
Place Clichy (
talk)
16:37, 3 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose all as they are part of the Energy in country X standard category tree. If
West Indies Power will be deleted and those categories to become unpopulated, they should be deleted, of course, but in meantime they should remain to allow the standard categorization of energy related articles.
Beagel (
talk)
09:48, 5 February 2021 (UTC)reply
It will be excluded from the Geothermal power in X and Electric power in X category series, which does not serve our readers interests. Your proposal fits perfectly for the stand-alone categories, but all those categories are part of the category tree, which will be disrupted.
Beagel (
talk)
14:43, 6 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Let's say I'm a reader following that tree: what will I find exactly? I'm going to keep going to category after category and find the same article over and over again which doesn't actually contain relevant information. It's good to disrupt a tree if it doesn't aid navigation.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
05:12, 7 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Members of Governing Council Of Indian Premier League
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Empty Saba categories
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Support -- This is a typical case of bad categorisation. Saba is a small island with one airport so that there is no scope for expansion and little in sibling categories. Its airport should by directly in
Category:Airports in the Caribbean and one appropriate category for Saba or the polity on which it is dependent. This applies equally to various other Empty trees nominated below.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
19:10, 3 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bangsamoro Special Geographic Area
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Category:Wikipedia categories named after subdivisions of the United States
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Keep - the rationale is refreshingly brief, but "not a maintenance category populated by template" would cover the deletion of nearly all categories. I would not have supported the deletion of any of the past ones either - editors simply do not understand "Category:Wikipedia categories named after ..." I would leave something alone if I didn't understand it. Moreover a category containing a subcat with 177 subcats contains 177 subcats (at least) and is hardly small.
Oculi (
talk)
15:12, 10 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's rationale:WP:NOTDEFINING. No suggestion that being Jewish had any particular influence on the work of these mathematicians, per
Rathfelder.
Delete per nom, and previous discussions. These categories seem to have been copied from Hebrew Wikipedia without consideration for conventions in the English Wikipedia. Creators/copyists seem to act as if Jewish was a nationality, which it is not.
Place Clichy (
talk)
10:59, 3 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The list is irrelevant, EGRS says that it should be a notable topic in its own right. Just a list says nothing in that regard. The point is (in this case) that Jewish mathematicians should have had a different way of doing math than their gentile counterparts, as Carlossuarez46 nicely phrased it.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:55, 9 February 2021 (UTC)reply
"This is a special collection of problems that were given to select applicants during oral entrance exams to the math department of Moscow State University. These problems were designed to prevent Jews and other undesirables from getting a passing grade. Among problems that were used by the department to blackball unwanted candidate students, these problems are distinguished by having a simple solution that is difficult to find. Using problems with a simple solution protected the administration from extra complaints and appeals. This collection therefore has mathematical as well as historical value."
[2].--
Prisencolin (
talk)
11:00, 10 February 2021 (UTC)reply
What you are referring to here is a test conceived to be arbitrary enough so that an examiner could arbitrarily decide which candidate would pass based primarily on whether they liked the candidate or not. This says something about the test, and about the examiner, but it says nothing about the candidates, except the fact that Jews suffered discrimination in Russia. This in a way reminds of "literacy" and other tests used in the Southern U.S. to prevent Black people from voting, using a very similar mechanism. However, the self-contradiction between this argument and your others arguments in this discussion is smothering: at the same time, Jews would have superior cognitive functions applied to mathematics, and comparable lower results in a math test? How is that supposed to get us anywhere? Both notions are just the expression of various discarded prejudices.
Place Clichy (
talk)
15:47, 10 February 2021 (UTC)reply
In other words, this is a racist category that has been used for racist purposes at Moscow State University, and is supported by IQ "researchers" at University of Utah. The IQ tests themselves have been shown to be biased. (Speaking as somebody with a reported IQ of more than 3 standard deviations above the mean.) William Allen Simpson (
talk)
12:28, 10 February 2021 (UTC)reply
If descent from Ancient Judea was the defining factor in these mathematics skills, why would this affect only Ashkenazi Jews and not Sephardis? I guess there's nothing really related to Judaism here.
Place Clichy (
talk)
15:47, 10 February 2021 (UTC)reply
We do not remove content that can be construed as racist
WP:NOTCENSORED and all social science (and science in general), is going to be biased in some way. Some fields (like IQ research) can be criticized more frequently for their biases, but I don’t think that’s a reason to exclude
WP:POV depictions of said research on the encyclopedia.
The three countries whose subcategories are listed here are all primarily have Jewish populations which are primarily Ashkenazim in their population. Maybe the categories need to renamed to be like [[:Category: [country] Ashkenazi Jewish mathematicians]] —-
Prisencolin (
talk)
17:57, 10 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Category:Economics and Statistics Administration images
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Category:Recipients of the Order of Military Merit (Dominican Republic)
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Category:Order of Stjepan Radić recipients
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The
Order of Stjepan Radić is given by the president of Croatia "for services and sacrifices for the national and social rights". This category has 3 articles (a President of Croatia, another prominent politician, and a war hero) who are already well categorized. Within the articles, this award gets mentioned in passing and seems to reflect their pre-existing fame rather than be defining. There wasn't a list so I cretated one right
here within the main article for any reader interested in the topic. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:19, 3 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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