The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary, per
WP:OCEPON – eponymous categories should be avoided, and this only has one subcategory for works by the artist... the only other entry is the article for the band itself.
Richard3120 (
talk)
18:39, 19 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:French people of Portuguese-Jewish descent
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Merge While there are in practice Sephardic Jews who have no Portuguese descent (especially in France), the latter are almost all Sephardic, and often quite far back, so I think the specific categorization of where Jewish ancestors lived is unneeeded.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
12:38, 19 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose, they are apparently no longer Jews (while they do have Jewish ancestors). One of them even was a Catholic theologian. Also it is part of a huge tree for X people of Y-Jewish descent.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
04:28, 27 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fictional Islamic people
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Support The term "Islamic people" seems rather strange to me. A
Muslim is a self-described submitter to divine authority. What other Islamic people would we exclude?
Dimadick (
talk)
10:42, 23 August 2021 (UTC)reply
(as nom) I agree with LaundryPizza that this should be deleted, as a recreation of an earlier deleted category under a slightly different name.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
04:30, 27 August 2021 (UTC)reply
I randomly did a search in about 20% of the articles in the category and the vast majority did mention the word "Muslim", but some did not. I would also support moving this to
Category:Portrayal of Muslims in fiction. That category would only include a character if they were deemed significant to popular media conception of Muslims.VRtalk21:29, 31 August 2021 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Fictional city-states
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Nominator's rationale: There is no need to categorize down to this level of granularity - a listing of fictional cities will be perfectly fine to encompass the articles of this type, including city-states. ZXCVBNM (
TALK)04:13, 19 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge In real life many cities that were at one point city-states later became part of larger setups, or in the past were and later became city-states, the same things happen in fiction, in some forms of fiction without acknowledging the other set up.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
12:40, 19 August 2021 (UTC)reply
What I'd like to know is, can anyone explain why
Category:Fictional cities is designated as an empty container category to begin with? Does that have anything to do with guideline concerns? I'll be able to form a view once I have the answer.
Haleth (
talk)
14:11, 20 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Islamic superheroes
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Rename to
Category:Muslim superheroes per
bibliomaniac and
Marcocapelle. "Islamic superheroes" imply that the character's MO is to champion a cause that is directly related to their religion or to appeal to adherents of the faith in real life. "Muslim superheroes" make more sense since it is more plausible that the religious identify is given as a facet of their overall characterization, as in the stories of the likes of Kamala Khan and Simon Baz.
Haleth (
talk)
14:15, 20 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete Religion is not particularly defining for most real people either. Because their religion is not the reason for their significance. The only exception are Jews, because they are a somewhat diverse
ethnoreligious group rather than a religious community.
Dimadick (
talk)
10:50, 23 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Rename to Muslim superheroes as suggested above, that could have some significance and usefulness but Islamic superheroes is poorly worded and unclear.
Dan Carkner (
talk)
19:18, 26 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Rename and strong keep. This category is as significant as
Category:African-American superheroes. Both categories are about minorities whose portrayal in media is often controversial. There are several scholarly studies on the topic of Muslim superheroes
[1][2][3] and
an entire book on Muslim female superheroes. I just looked at the first four entries in the category and in each case being Muslim was treated as a significant characteristic by media:
The nomination is not about whether these characters were Muslim or not, the nomination is about the fact that their faith is unrelated to their occupation.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:18, 2 September 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete A distinction should be made between the Muslim aspect of their character being worthy of mention, and them literally being defined by their religion. An
Islam in superhero fiction article is a possibility, given the previous sources, but it would be surprising to see "____ is a Muslim/Jewish/Christian/etc. superhero" unless their entire identity is based around it.ZXCVBNM (
TALK)10:20, 13 September 2021 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Category:Apache Software Foundation members
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The Apache Software Foundation was founded by software developer
Ken Coar and not coincidentally this category was created by
User:Coar, the Wikipedia ID of the same Ken Coar. Whatever the COI origins of this category the bigger problem is that it's not defining: the
apache.org homepage says there are 820 members and the articles in this category are known for being computer programmers but not for this association, except for Mr. Coar of course. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:22, 18 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep Apache is not just a leisure club of rich people (where the idea of NONDEFINING would be a true claim) but a decentralized open source community of developers. The ASF is a meritocracy, implying that membership of the foundation is granted only to volunteers who have actively contributed to Apache projects. I'd suppose most stately honours (orders) that we've categorized have less meritocracy in it than ASF. I really don't see any good reasons at all to dump this category. --
Just N. (
talk)
18:02, 25 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Further comment, people in this category are known as free software programmers or as open source advocates and already in those categories. They are not known for their membership of the Apache Software Foundation, which becomes very obvious when reading through the articles.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
04:39, 19 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Sorry, Marco, you're doing mostly an excellent job in category discussion but the above interjection is IMHO not helpful. This category is not about their profession as programmers and not about their ethics as open source advocates. It's not even about them as as individuals but about their membership in a meritocracy called ASF. It seems to me you have never been a member of an academy (or am I wrong?) which is an analogue: you're chosen to become a member but unless you're the president or business administrator it doesn't require much of your life time and not much space in your wikipedia article (if existing). It's your logic that is searching in the wrong paths, dear Marcocapelle. This is about society and not about individual activities! An academy wouldn't exist without its members which build its existence as a meritocracy (not economically) and ASF the same. And as surely no one wants to read in WIkipedia who is a Diner's Club member it is absolutely diffferent with meaningful academies and other meritocracies such as ASF. --
Just N. (
talk)
21:51, 23 August 2021 (UTC)reply
I do not agree, this is definitely about individual activities, because categories are assigned to individual biographies. The relevance for society should result and has resulted in a topic article.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
04:36, 27 August 2021 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Football (soccer) in Niue
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Might be a good idea - this one's too knotty for speedy. It's also worth noting that the organisations and leage became defunct some time ago, possibly before New Zealand adopted the term football for the sport - which adds more complications.
Grutness...wha?02:01, 13 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Support Oculi's suggestion It may be that the sport was known as soccer in Niue ten years ago, but what football there is there (if any?) is likely to be under New Zealand jurisdiction now. "Association football" is a more neutral term in any case.
Grutness...wha?02:12, 16 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Support per C2D, to match parent article name - for now. I say 'for now', because based on the above comments from Oculi, there is a case to be made to
wP:RM the parent article name, and them move the category after that. But, until that happens...
GiantSnowman10:51, 16 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Procedural relisting per above, four of the nominated categories were not properly tagged.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
✗plicit01:34, 19 August 2021 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary, per
WP:OCEPON – eponymous categories should be avoided, and this only has one subcategory for works by the artist... the only other entry is the article for the band itself.
Richard3120 (
talk)
18:39, 19 August 2021 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:French people of Portuguese-Jewish descent
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Merge While there are in practice Sephardic Jews who have no Portuguese descent (especially in France), the latter are almost all Sephardic, and often quite far back, so I think the specific categorization of where Jewish ancestors lived is unneeeded.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
12:38, 19 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose, they are apparently no longer Jews (while they do have Jewish ancestors). One of them even was a Catholic theologian. Also it is part of a huge tree for X people of Y-Jewish descent.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
04:28, 27 August 2021 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Fictional Islamic people
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Support The term "Islamic people" seems rather strange to me. A
Muslim is a self-described submitter to divine authority. What other Islamic people would we exclude?
Dimadick (
talk)
10:42, 23 August 2021 (UTC)reply
(as nom) I agree with LaundryPizza that this should be deleted, as a recreation of an earlier deleted category under a slightly different name.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
04:30, 27 August 2021 (UTC)reply
I randomly did a search in about 20% of the articles in the category and the vast majority did mention the word "Muslim", but some did not. I would also support moving this to
Category:Portrayal of Muslims in fiction. That category would only include a character if they were deemed significant to popular media conception of Muslims.VRtalk21:29, 31 August 2021 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Fictional city-states
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: There is no need to categorize down to this level of granularity - a listing of fictional cities will be perfectly fine to encompass the articles of this type, including city-states. ZXCVBNM (
TALK)04:13, 19 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge In real life many cities that were at one point city-states later became part of larger setups, or in the past were and later became city-states, the same things happen in fiction, in some forms of fiction without acknowledging the other set up.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
12:40, 19 August 2021 (UTC)reply
What I'd like to know is, can anyone explain why
Category:Fictional cities is designated as an empty container category to begin with? Does that have anything to do with guideline concerns? I'll be able to form a view once I have the answer.
Haleth (
talk)
14:11, 20 August 2021 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Islamic superheroes
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Rename to
Category:Muslim superheroes per
bibliomaniac and
Marcocapelle. "Islamic superheroes" imply that the character's MO is to champion a cause that is directly related to their religion or to appeal to adherents of the faith in real life. "Muslim superheroes" make more sense since it is more plausible that the religious identify is given as a facet of their overall characterization, as in the stories of the likes of Kamala Khan and Simon Baz.
Haleth (
talk)
14:15, 20 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete Religion is not particularly defining for most real people either. Because their religion is not the reason for their significance. The only exception are Jews, because they are a somewhat diverse
ethnoreligious group rather than a religious community.
Dimadick (
talk)
10:50, 23 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Rename to Muslim superheroes as suggested above, that could have some significance and usefulness but Islamic superheroes is poorly worded and unclear.
Dan Carkner (
talk)
19:18, 26 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Rename and strong keep. This category is as significant as
Category:African-American superheroes. Both categories are about minorities whose portrayal in media is often controversial. There are several scholarly studies on the topic of Muslim superheroes
[1][2][3] and
an entire book on Muslim female superheroes. I just looked at the first four entries in the category and in each case being Muslim was treated as a significant characteristic by media:
The nomination is not about whether these characters were Muslim or not, the nomination is about the fact that their faith is unrelated to their occupation.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:18, 2 September 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete A distinction should be made between the Muslim aspect of their character being worthy of mention, and them literally being defined by their religion. An
Islam in superhero fiction article is a possibility, given the previous sources, but it would be surprising to see "____ is a Muslim/Jewish/Christian/etc. superhero" unless their entire identity is based around it.ZXCVBNM (
TALK)10:20, 13 September 2021 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Apache Software Foundation members
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The Apache Software Foundation was founded by software developer
Ken Coar and not coincidentally this category was created by
User:Coar, the Wikipedia ID of the same Ken Coar. Whatever the COI origins of this category the bigger problem is that it's not defining: the
apache.org homepage says there are 820 members and the articles in this category are known for being computer programmers but not for this association, except for Mr. Coar of course. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:22, 18 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep Apache is not just a leisure club of rich people (where the idea of NONDEFINING would be a true claim) but a decentralized open source community of developers. The ASF is a meritocracy, implying that membership of the foundation is granted only to volunteers who have actively contributed to Apache projects. I'd suppose most stately honours (orders) that we've categorized have less meritocracy in it than ASF. I really don't see any good reasons at all to dump this category. --
Just N. (
talk)
18:02, 25 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Further comment, people in this category are known as free software programmers or as open source advocates and already in those categories. They are not known for their membership of the Apache Software Foundation, which becomes very obvious when reading through the articles.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
04:39, 19 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Sorry, Marco, you're doing mostly an excellent job in category discussion but the above interjection is IMHO not helpful. This category is not about their profession as programmers and not about their ethics as open source advocates. It's not even about them as as individuals but about their membership in a meritocracy called ASF. It seems to me you have never been a member of an academy (or am I wrong?) which is an analogue: you're chosen to become a member but unless you're the president or business administrator it doesn't require much of your life time and not much space in your wikipedia article (if existing). It's your logic that is searching in the wrong paths, dear Marcocapelle. This is about society and not about individual activities! An academy wouldn't exist without its members which build its existence as a meritocracy (not economically) and ASF the same. And as surely no one wants to read in WIkipedia who is a Diner's Club member it is absolutely diffferent with meaningful academies and other meritocracies such as ASF. --
Just N. (
talk)
21:51, 23 August 2021 (UTC)reply
I do not agree, this is definitely about individual activities, because categories are assigned to individual biographies. The relevance for society should result and has resulted in a topic article.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
04:36, 27 August 2021 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Football (soccer) in Niue
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Might be a good idea - this one's too knotty for speedy. It's also worth noting that the organisations and leage became defunct some time ago, possibly before New Zealand adopted the term football for the sport - which adds more complications.
Grutness...wha?02:01, 13 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Support Oculi's suggestion It may be that the sport was known as soccer in Niue ten years ago, but what football there is there (if any?) is likely to be under New Zealand jurisdiction now. "Association football" is a more neutral term in any case.
Grutness...wha?02:12, 16 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Support per C2D, to match parent article name - for now. I say 'for now', because based on the above comments from Oculi, there is a case to be made to
wP:RM the parent article name, and them move the category after that. But, until that happens...
GiantSnowman10:51, 16 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Procedural relisting per above, four of the nominated categories were not properly tagged.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
✗plicit01:34, 19 August 2021 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.