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Category:NiziU
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Nominator's rationale: Another unnecessary eponymous category housing two interlinked subcategories with a total of 3 articles.
WP:OCEPONStarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me20:24, 16 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete per WP:OCEPON – the subcategories should be kept as part of the existing scheme for album and song categorization, used for every other artist on Wikipedia.
Richard3120 (
talk)
16:49, 24 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Earthquakes in Estonia
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Category:Disc golf in Estonia
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Category:Atlantic International University
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African-American expatriates in the United Kingdom
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale We use these categories to indicate nationals of one country who reside in another. We generally do not break these down by ethnicity. I see no reason to start.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
18:23, 16 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose strongly. These people have a lot in common (they're all pre-Civil War) and keeping them as a group makes sense. If merged, useful information would be lost.
deisenbe (
talk)
15:22, 17 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Also the claim these people went to the UK "fleeing persecution" does not actually hold up to scrutiny in all cases.
Henry Highland Garnet did a two-and-a-half year lecture tour in the UK, and then returned to the US. He went to the UK to advance various causes there, not because he thought remaining in the US would be untenable.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
13:38, 18 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment As I said above, if we want to have this category and limit it to people who were African-Americans who were expatriates in Britain before the US Civil War, this category needs to reflect that in its name. Because the current name absolutely requires me to place
Peter M. Johnson in it, and I am sure there are huge numbers of others. Actually I considered placing a mid-20th century actress and singer who was African-American and for a time in London in this category yesterday, but thought better of it. The name says this category should include people down to the present, if we do not want it to be such we need to make this obvious in the name.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
13:20, 18 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment There is not even a hatnote that says this category is limited to those who were expatriates before the American Civil War. Even if there was such a hatnote, since people can easily place categories without reading the hatnote, having a hate note absolutely does not fix an issue with a category name in no way actually reflecting the category contents.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
13:22, 18 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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People of the Duchy of Croatia
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This is curious. The adjective "Croatian" in these phrase doesn't necessarily have to refer to a specific country, rather than any Croatians, i.e. any Croats, so these names are actually more plausible than those explicitly referring to countries. But at the same time, are you going to go through
Category:7th-century European people by nationality etc and start trying to make sense of it all? --
Joy [shallot] (
talk)
19:20, 16 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep per the
WP:CAT and
WP:SMALLCAT exceptions, as the categories are part of well-established category trees, see
[1]. Small categories have a potential for growth. As for the medieval and modern state of Croatia, none or almost none of modern states existed in the 7/8/9th centuries in present-day form, surface area, territory coverage or even name. I can't see what's the problem here. --
Silverije21:35, 20 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep -- It is unnecessary to change anything. The fact that it refers to a particular polity with a particualr status (Duchy or kingdom) can be covered in a headnote. I strongly object to Laura Lodged's policy of fragmenting categories, according to changing constitutrional status. Category names are best when they are short, to limit category clutter.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:53, 27 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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Century establishments in the Kingdom of Croatia
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sorry trying to work off my phone in a tent. I was meaning that something that might work for Croatia might not work for another country.
Rathfelder (
talk)
20:10, 24 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep -- It is unnecessary to change anything. The fact that it refers to a particular polity with a particualr status (Duchy or kingdom) can be covered in a headnote. I strongly object to Laura Lodged's policy of fragmenting categories, according to changing constitutrional status. Category names are best when they are short, to limit category clutter.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:53, 27 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:4th-century establishments in Croatia
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Centuries in the Duchy of Croatia
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This is messy. Many articles are overview articles, not about one particular century. Many other articles are about Lower Pannonia, which overlaps a bit with the current republic of Croatia but not with the medieval duchy of Croatia. Manually merging to
Category:Duchy of Croatia is perhaps the best option.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
18:11, 17 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep -- It is unnecessary to change anything. The fact that it refers to a particular polity with a particualr status (Duchy or kingdom) can be covered in a headnote. I strongly object to Laura Lodged's policy of fragmenting categories, according to changing constitutrional status. Category names are best when they are short, to limit category clutter.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:52, 27 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Black M
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Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary per
WP:OCEPON and numerous CfD precedent. The subcategories are sufficiently interlinked without any other significant content. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me14:24, 16 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Gaelic football competitions in the United States
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Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:SMALLCAT. Both categories contain just one page. There is no need to have separate categories for U.S. state's as the parent category has just 2 pages. The merge would result in 4 pages. I'm tempted to open more discussion for merging more of the surrounding tree into just
Category:Gaelic football in the United States. –
Aidan721 (
talk)
13:27, 16 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:2021 storming of the United States Capitol
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Support as this looks like it will be the stable name for at least a while. If the article is renamed again, the category should be too.
Elli (
talk |
contribs)
19:13, 21 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment No, I can't support the renaming for encyclopedic reasons. The new wording is more vague and an encyclopedia should keep to clear facts and words. OTOH the formal rules force more or less that the category wording follows the article wording. So the renaming will be done and I'll have to accept that. --
Just N. (
talk)
19:41, 23 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:NiziU
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Nominator's rationale: Another unnecessary eponymous category housing two interlinked subcategories with a total of 3 articles.
WP:OCEPONStarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me20:24, 16 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete per WP:OCEPON – the subcategories should be kept as part of the existing scheme for album and song categorization, used for every other artist on Wikipedia.
Richard3120 (
talk)
16:49, 24 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Earthquakes in Estonia
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Category:Disc golf in Estonia
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Category:Atlantic International University
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African-American expatriates in the United Kingdom
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Nominator's rationale We use these categories to indicate nationals of one country who reside in another. We generally do not break these down by ethnicity. I see no reason to start.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
18:23, 16 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose strongly. These people have a lot in common (they're all pre-Civil War) and keeping them as a group makes sense. If merged, useful information would be lost.
deisenbe (
talk)
15:22, 17 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Also the claim these people went to the UK "fleeing persecution" does not actually hold up to scrutiny in all cases.
Henry Highland Garnet did a two-and-a-half year lecture tour in the UK, and then returned to the US. He went to the UK to advance various causes there, not because he thought remaining in the US would be untenable.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
13:38, 18 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment As I said above, if we want to have this category and limit it to people who were African-Americans who were expatriates in Britain before the US Civil War, this category needs to reflect that in its name. Because the current name absolutely requires me to place
Peter M. Johnson in it, and I am sure there are huge numbers of others. Actually I considered placing a mid-20th century actress and singer who was African-American and for a time in London in this category yesterday, but thought better of it. The name says this category should include people down to the present, if we do not want it to be such we need to make this obvious in the name.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
13:20, 18 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment There is not even a hatnote that says this category is limited to those who were expatriates before the American Civil War. Even if there was such a hatnote, since people can easily place categories without reading the hatnote, having a hate note absolutely does not fix an issue with a category name in no way actually reflecting the category contents.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
13:22, 18 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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People of the Duchy of Croatia
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This is curious. The adjective "Croatian" in these phrase doesn't necessarily have to refer to a specific country, rather than any Croatians, i.e. any Croats, so these names are actually more plausible than those explicitly referring to countries. But at the same time, are you going to go through
Category:7th-century European people by nationality etc and start trying to make sense of it all? --
Joy [shallot] (
talk)
19:20, 16 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep per the
WP:CAT and
WP:SMALLCAT exceptions, as the categories are part of well-established category trees, see
[1]. Small categories have a potential for growth. As for the medieval and modern state of Croatia, none or almost none of modern states existed in the 7/8/9th centuries in present-day form, surface area, territory coverage or even name. I can't see what's the problem here. --
Silverije21:35, 20 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep -- It is unnecessary to change anything. The fact that it refers to a particular polity with a particualr status (Duchy or kingdom) can be covered in a headnote. I strongly object to Laura Lodged's policy of fragmenting categories, according to changing constitutrional status. Category names are best when they are short, to limit category clutter.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:53, 27 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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Century establishments in the Kingdom of Croatia
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sorry trying to work off my phone in a tent. I was meaning that something that might work for Croatia might not work for another country.
Rathfelder (
talk)
20:10, 24 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep -- It is unnecessary to change anything. The fact that it refers to a particular polity with a particualr status (Duchy or kingdom) can be covered in a headnote. I strongly object to Laura Lodged's policy of fragmenting categories, according to changing constitutrional status. Category names are best when they are short, to limit category clutter.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:53, 27 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:4th-century establishments in Croatia
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Centuries in the Duchy of Croatia
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This is messy. Many articles are overview articles, not about one particular century. Many other articles are about Lower Pannonia, which overlaps a bit with the current republic of Croatia but not with the medieval duchy of Croatia. Manually merging to
Category:Duchy of Croatia is perhaps the best option.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
18:11, 17 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep -- It is unnecessary to change anything. The fact that it refers to a particular polity with a particualr status (Duchy or kingdom) can be covered in a headnote. I strongly object to Laura Lodged's policy of fragmenting categories, according to changing constitutrional status. Category names are best when they are short, to limit category clutter.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:52, 27 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Black M
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Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary per
WP:OCEPON and numerous CfD precedent. The subcategories are sufficiently interlinked without any other significant content. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me14:24, 16 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Gaelic football competitions in the United States
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Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:SMALLCAT. Both categories contain just one page. There is no need to have separate categories for U.S. state's as the parent category has just 2 pages. The merge would result in 4 pages. I'm tempted to open more discussion for merging more of the surrounding tree into just
Category:Gaelic football in the United States. –
Aidan721 (
talk)
13:27, 16 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:2021 storming of the United States Capitol
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Support as this looks like it will be the stable name for at least a while. If the article is renamed again, the category should be too.
Elli (
talk |
contribs)
19:13, 21 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment No, I can't support the renaming for encyclopedic reasons. The new wording is more vague and an encyclopedia should keep to clear facts and words. OTOH the formal rules force more or less that the category wording follows the article wording. So the renaming will be done and I'll have to accept that. --
Just N. (
talk)
19:41, 23 August 2021 (UTC)reply
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