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Nominator's rationale: Trivial classification. At best listify'. ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 20:49, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete, category based on a non-defining characteristic. Even listification seems unnecessary to me.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:33, 9 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kiev-Sviatoshyn Raion
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The result of the discussion was:rename.
MER-C 19:04, 21 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: To match main articles after move of
Kyiv and
Kyiv Oblast. —MichaelZ. 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support - per nom and also Kyiv-Sviatoshyn Raion is an extant regional district, and the article is titled
Kyiv-Sviatoshyn Raion, so the
WP:EPONYMOUS category should have the same title with the same spelling, and all the child categories should match the parent. Although
Kyiv is a city and not a country, we should follow the guidance of
WP:CATNAME: For "of country" and "in country" categories, the name of the country should appear as it does in the name of the article about that country ... (bold in original). The name of the city/district should also appear as it does in the name of the article about that city/district. Anything else would be confusing to the reader. (And I don't understand why a speedy move would be opposed; seems obvious and indisputable, as an eponoymous category.)
Lev!vich 16:01, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support for consistency with earlier renames.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:34, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kiev Metro
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The result of the discussion was:rename.
MER-C 19:05, 21 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: After move of top-level main article Kiev→
Kyiv, and recently moved main article’s title Kiev Metro→
Kyiv Metro, and all subcategories’ and contained articles’ titles. —MichaelZ. 19:42, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support - per nom and also Kyiv Metro is an extant metro system, and the article is titled
Kyiv Metro, so the
WP:EPONYMOUS category should have the same title with the same spelling, and all the child categories should match the parent. Although
Kyiv is a city and not a country, we should follow the guidance of
WP:CATNAME: For "of country" and "in country" categories, the name of the country should appear as it does in the name of the article about that country ... (bold in original). The name of the city/metro should also appear as it does in the name of the article about that city/metro. Anything else would be confusing to the reader. (And I don't understand why a speedy would be opposed; seems obvious and indisputable, as an eponoymous category.)
Lev!vich 16:01, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support for consistency with earlier renames.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:34, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kiev Oblast
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Nominator's rationale: To match main article title
Kyiv Oblast, after RM was closed early with full consensus. (
earlier discussion) —MichaelZ. 19:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support - per nom and also Kyiv Oblast is an extant sub-national region, and the article is titled
Kyiv Oblast (as are the sub-articles, e.g.
Administrative divisions of Kyiv Oblast), so the
WP:EPONYMOUS category should have the same title with the same spelling, and all the child categories should match the parent. Although Kyiv Oblast is a region and not a country, we should follow the guidance of
WP:CATNAME: For "of country" and "in country" categories, the name of the country should appear as it does in the name of the article about that country ... (bold in original). The name of the region category should also appear as it does in the name of the article about that region. Anything else would be confusing to the reader. (And I don't understand why a speedy move would be opposed; seems obvious and indisputable, as an eponoymous category.)
Lev!vich 16:01, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support for consistency with earlier renames.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:35, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support per nomination, Lev!vich et al. (Some of the subcats are not tagged.)
Oculi (
talk) 00:49, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support first category only per
Kyiv Oblast, Procedural oppose all other categories as untagged.
Place Clichy (
talk) 11:02, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Why don’t you help be doing this tagging that’s so important to you then, instead of continually opposing moves no one in the world including you actually opposes? —MichaelZ. 13:41, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Well,
Wikipedia is a volunteer service. I don't really find enough time to do things that are important to my eyes, I therefore have even less time for yours. I did however try to point you to
WP:CFD and follow the short but necessary steps in order to have the categories renamed (letting aside that not all occurrences of "Kiev" have to be renamed).
Place Clichy (
talk) 15:39, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Your time? What about our time? You're wasting my time and the time of other volunteers by opposing moves that are no-brainers. These should have been done on a speedy basis. Either articulate an actual opposition argument or please get out of the way. "Procedural oppose" of the child categories contradicts
WP:NOTBURO. Because the article is at
Kyiv Oblast, all the Kyiv Oblast categories should obviously use the same spelling.
Lev!vich 16:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Well, the guideline you cite also says “there is no deadline.” We can let this sit in discussion until we all reach a consensus that there is a
wp:SNOWBALL’s chance these won’t be renamed.
This obstruction seems completely pointless, and I am doubting that your unexplained objections are a good-faith effort toward anything of value. In fact, you expressed your disrespect for the consensus on the original RM when
you first piped up at a Kyiv-related discussion: The latest RM that resulted in renaming the article about the city to Kyiv is far, far, very far from showing a clear and over-reaching consensus. . . . As the consensus is weak and was fought for years about the name of the city, and per the examples above, imho it does not extends to other entities. If you intend to accomplish anything other than disruption, please explain what it is. Or don’t. We’re making an encyclopedia anyway. —MichaelZ. 17:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Speedy or not, categories have to be tagged before being renamed. I'm only trying to help you by pointing you to the most efficient process in this case, in the spirit of making you win time rather than lose it. The rest of the arguments are getting too personal... you did not seem to have shown much respect either for the numerous RM over the years which resulted in a long-standing consensus towards Kiev on the 15 pages of archives at
Talk:Kyiv/naming, by bringing up the topic again and again and again.
Place Clichy (
talk) 10:06, 13 October 2020 (UTC)reply
The rest of the arguments are too personal, so let me tell you what’s wrong with your attitude – Nice. But unfair. I was an editor during all thirteen move requests. As far as I can tell from the archive, I opposed the first, argued against one or two others, sat most of them out, and I supported the last one. I participated in discussions. I opposed a “moratorium” on moves that was not supported by a clear consensus, and I believe was abused by a few overenthusiastic editors to stifle discussion when it was needed most. I believe my view was vindicated when the decision was finally rendered over eight months later. I respect Wikipedia and its guidelines – even good arguments that the dated spelling may still be appropriate in some places – but I do not respect blind obstruction. “Trying to help”? You have forced speedy CFDs to discussion, for no reason. —MichaelZ. 17:36, 13 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Place Clichy is fully entitled to their procedural oppose and there is a serious risk that the nomination will not be closed, or closed as no consensus, if nearly all categories remain untagged.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:09, 11 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Sounds like an improvement. —MichaelZ. 14:56, 14 October 2020 (UTC) But look at its many siblings in
Category:Football competitions in the regions of Ukraine. For
wp:CONSISTENCY in title pattern, I suggest a separate move request for all those cats. For consistency in this oblast’s category tree, let’s complete this move as it stands. —MichaelZ. 17:46, 25 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Shevchenkivskyi District (Kiev)
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Nominator's rationale: After move of top-level main article Kiev→
Kyiv, and for consistency with main article’s title, all parent categories’ titles, and all other contained articles’ titles. —MichaelZ. 18:44, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support move to
Category:Shevchenkivskyi District, Kyiv - per nom and also Shevchenkivskyi District is an extant district, and the article is titled
Shevchenkivskyi District, Kyiv, so the
WP:EPONYMOUS category should have the same title with the same spelling, and all the child categories should match the parent. Additionally,
WP:CATNAME provides When an article topic requires disambiguation, any category eponymously named for that topic should include the same form of disambiguation ..., so the category should match the article for that reason. Finally, although
Kyiv is a city and not a country, we should follow the guidance of WP:CATNAME: For "of country" and "in country" categories, the name of the country should appear as it does in the name of the article about that country ... (bold in original). The name of the city disambiguator of the district category should also appear as it does in the names of the articles about that district and city. Anything else would be confusing to the reader. (And I don't understand why a speedy moved would be opposed; seems obvious and indisputable, as an eponoymous category, and as a disambiguated category.)
Lev!vich 16:01, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
I’ll fully support whichever disambiguation format is preferred by the guidelines, plus we should ensure consistency in this category tree and in others. —MichaelZ. 19:56, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support for consistency with earlier renames.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:36, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Podilskyi District (Kiev)
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The result of the discussion was:rename as nominated.
MER-C 18:55, 14 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Remove unnecessary disambiguation for consistency with main article’s title. Alternatively, move to
Category:Podilskyi District (Kyiv), after move of top-level main article Kiev→
Kyiv, for consistency with parent category’s and contained articles’ titles. —MichaelZ. 18:42, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support move to
Category:Podilskyi District - per nom. Podilskyi District is an extant district, and the article is titled
Podilskyi District. The article is not disambiguated so the category needn't be. (Why wasn't this done speedy? Seems obvious and indisputable that if the article isn't disambiguated, the category shouldn't be either.)
Lev!vich 16:01, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support for consistency with earlier renames.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:36, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support per main article name.
Place Clichy (
talk) 10:06, 13 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Dniprovskyi District (Kiev)
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Nominator's rationale: After move of Kiev→
Kyiv, and for consistency with main article’s title, parent category’s title, and all other contained articles’ titles. —MichaelZ. 18:38, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support move to
Category:Dniprovskyi District, Kyiv - per nom and also Dniprovskyi District is an extant district, and the article is titled
Dniprovskyi District, Kyiv, so the
WP:EPONYMOUS category should have the same title with the same spelling, and all the child categories should match the parent. Additionally,
WP:CATNAME provides When an article topic requires disambiguation, any category eponymously named for that topic should include the same form of disambiguation ..., so the category should match the article for that reason. Finally, although
Kyiv is a city and not a country, we should follow the guidance of WP:CATNAME: For "of country" and "in country" categories, the name of the country should appear as it does in the name of the article about that country ... (bold in original). The name of the city disambiguator of the district category should also appear as it does in the names of the articles about that district and city. Anything else would be confusing to the reader. (And I don't understand why a speedy moved would be opposed; seems obvious and indisputable, as an eponoymous category, and as a disambiguated category.)
Lev!vich 16:01, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
I’ll fully support whichever disambiguation format is preferred by the guidelines, plus we should ensure consistency in this category tree and in others. —MichaelZ. 19:56, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support for consistency with earlier renames.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:37, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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The result of the discussion was:speedily deleted. –
FayenaticLondon 12:19, 12 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete because (a)
it introduced a bug to a highly visible and popular template, (b) the category itself is basically pointless, and (c) its creator had no objection to deleting it (
back in June). History DMZ(
talk)+(
ping) 08:48, 12 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Jewish slave owners
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May I respectfully suggest you to have a look at our guidelines
WP:EGRS and
WP:OCEGRS? The fact that
Aaron Lopez was, a the same time, a Jew and a slave owner does not seem to indicate any defining link between the two. To follow your comparison about Arabs, Africans and Maltese, I also believe that a category about Hebrew slave owners would be eligible if it concentrated on ancient Hebrews at the time when they practiced slavery.
Place Clichy (
talk) 11:02, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom and per discussion further down on this page. Slave owner is not an occupation, by the way. Aaron Lopez is not a member of this category, by the way.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 16:44, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete fails
WP:OCEGRS and being a slave-owner is not an "occupation" any more than owning some other property; also, I question the notability factor: are these folks notable because they were Jewish and owned slaves or was either trait incidental to their claims to fame?
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 22:22, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete I am not sure being a slave owner is encyclopaedical, but the intersection with an ethnicity surely isn't.
Debresser (
talk) 23:32, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep I agree with Torchist that categories by ethnicity are defining.
Dimadick (
talk) 15:10, 11 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Space WikiProjects
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Category:Jewish slave traders
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Delete per nom. The category is also very offensive.
SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (
talk) 04:46, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete per
WP:OCEGRS, unrelated intersection with ethnicity and religion.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:13, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep they are described by their ethnicity in reliable sources and Wikipedia has other categories for
Category:Jews by occupation such as
Category:Jewish scientists and
Category:Jewish merchants. Individuals such as
Aaron Lopez, for instance often had changing involvement with different states: born in Portugal, became involved with the English and then was involved in the Americas. The Sephardic merchants of the age of slavery are treated in academic sources as a distinctive class or group: examples of these treatments are works such as "Jews, Slaves, and the Slave Trade" (1998) by
Eli Faber and "Jews and the American Slave Trade" by Saul S. Friedman (1998). We also have other ethnic categories for slave traders and owners such as
Category:Arab slave owners,
Category:African slave owners,
Category:Maltese slave owners, etc. No reason Jews should be any different or white-washed from this.
Torchist (
talk) 16:00, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Eli Faber countered the suggestion that slave trade was more than proportionally dominated by Jews so that supports deletion of the category. Aaron Lopez can simply be categorized as an American slave trader.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 16:40, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
You're arguing something completely different here. Whether they "dominated" it or not, there were Jewish slave traders and owners and specific academic treatments have been authored about them (such as by Faber) which cover the topic of Jewish slave and owners and traders as specifically Jewish (just as there are of Arabs and Africans who owned slaved). The United States only existed for a brief time when Lopez lived and was a slave trader, he also lived in Portugal, Britain, etc (he is just one example of many with a similar complex situation). We have biographical articles about some of these people, there is no less reason to have a Wikipedia category for them than there is for Arab slave traders.
Torchist (
talk) 17:33, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Weak Keep - there has been a lot of talk about the topic
Jews and the American Slave Trade, and while most if not all respectable academics say that the role Jews played in the slave trade is minimal at best, that does not negate the coverage this subject has received. I agree with the nominator that it would be odd if any other category was created with the intersection of religion and being a slave trader,but at the same time we have categories intersecting being Jewish with other occupations that are not found with any other religion. Currently I feel that the rational for deletion is simply that some people might find it offensive, and per
WP:IDONTLIKEIT and
WP:NOTCENSORED I don't feel its a valid argument.
Inter&anthro (
talk) 15:31, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete were any of these folks notable because they were both Jews and slave traders, or merely they were slave traders who happened to be Jews? i.e., if they had been only slave traders they wouldn't have been notable because other religions acquiesced in slave trading while Judaism somehow opposed it? No evidence has come to light to support that concept, so this is an arbitrary combination somehow dividing slave traders by the religion they held is arbitrary. This isn't an
WP:IDONTLIKEIT and
WP:NOTCENSORED issue as discussed above. Because our consensus is that categorization of bad behavior by race/religion/ethnicity is arbitrary.
WP:OCEGRS.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 22:33, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Weak delete Looks like a non-notable intersection of an ethnicity and an occupation.
Debresser (
talk) 23:31, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete as an unneeded cross-categorisation & non-defining. --
K.e.coffman (
talk) 18:29, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep I agree with Torchist that categorization by ethnicity is defining.
Dimadick (
talk) 15:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete. Many of the entries are imprecise (not Jewish, not slave traders). The category itself is not needed and non-defining. antisemitic texts written by the
Nation of Islam, as well as a very small set of scholarly rebuttals (which refute this being of any significance), are not the basis for a category, for the same reason
Category:Jewish bloodsuckers is illegitimate, even though one could possibly populate it.--
Astral Leap (
talk) 08:57, 12 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete, non-defining cross-categorisation that serves no legitimate purpose.
BD Mason (
talk) 05:37, 13 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Haitian superheroes
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Category:Argentine superheroes
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Category:Peruvian superheroes
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Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Venezuelan superheroes
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Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Tibetan superheroes
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Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Czech superheroes
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Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Colombian superheroes
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Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Mexican children's animated superhero television series
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Delete per nom and for now. There is not a lot of animated superhero shows from Mexico.
SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (
talk) 04:53, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Hong Kong superheroes
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Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Guatemalan superheroes
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Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Dominican Republic superheroes
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Nominator's rationale: Neither of the characters in the article are Dominican, but rather Americans of Dominican descent. JDDJS (
talk to me •
see what I've done) 03:53, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial classification. At best listify'. ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 20:49, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete, category based on a non-defining characteristic. Even listification seems unnecessary to me.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:33, 9 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kiev-Sviatoshyn Raion
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The result of the discussion was:rename.
MER-C 19:04, 21 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: To match main articles after move of
Kyiv and
Kyiv Oblast. —MichaelZ. 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support - per nom and also Kyiv-Sviatoshyn Raion is an extant regional district, and the article is titled
Kyiv-Sviatoshyn Raion, so the
WP:EPONYMOUS category should have the same title with the same spelling, and all the child categories should match the parent. Although
Kyiv is a city and not a country, we should follow the guidance of
WP:CATNAME: For "of country" and "in country" categories, the name of the country should appear as it does in the name of the article about that country ... (bold in original). The name of the city/district should also appear as it does in the name of the article about that city/district. Anything else would be confusing to the reader. (And I don't understand why a speedy move would be opposed; seems obvious and indisputable, as an eponoymous category.)
Lev!vich 16:01, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support for consistency with earlier renames.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:34, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kiev Metro
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The result of the discussion was:rename.
MER-C 19:05, 21 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: After move of top-level main article Kiev→
Kyiv, and recently moved main article’s title Kiev Metro→
Kyiv Metro, and all subcategories’ and contained articles’ titles. —MichaelZ. 19:42, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support - per nom and also Kyiv Metro is an extant metro system, and the article is titled
Kyiv Metro, so the
WP:EPONYMOUS category should have the same title with the same spelling, and all the child categories should match the parent. Although
Kyiv is a city and not a country, we should follow the guidance of
WP:CATNAME: For "of country" and "in country" categories, the name of the country should appear as it does in the name of the article about that country ... (bold in original). The name of the city/metro should also appear as it does in the name of the article about that city/metro. Anything else would be confusing to the reader. (And I don't understand why a speedy would be opposed; seems obvious and indisputable, as an eponoymous category.)
Lev!vich 16:01, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support for consistency with earlier renames.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:34, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kiev Oblast
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Nominator's rationale: To match main article title
Kyiv Oblast, after RM was closed early with full consensus. (
earlier discussion) —MichaelZ. 19:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support - per nom and also Kyiv Oblast is an extant sub-national region, and the article is titled
Kyiv Oblast (as are the sub-articles, e.g.
Administrative divisions of Kyiv Oblast), so the
WP:EPONYMOUS category should have the same title with the same spelling, and all the child categories should match the parent. Although Kyiv Oblast is a region and not a country, we should follow the guidance of
WP:CATNAME: For "of country" and "in country" categories, the name of the country should appear as it does in the name of the article about that country ... (bold in original). The name of the region category should also appear as it does in the name of the article about that region. Anything else would be confusing to the reader. (And I don't understand why a speedy move would be opposed; seems obvious and indisputable, as an eponoymous category.)
Lev!vich 16:01, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support for consistency with earlier renames.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:35, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support per nomination, Lev!vich et al. (Some of the subcats are not tagged.)
Oculi (
talk) 00:49, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support first category only per
Kyiv Oblast, Procedural oppose all other categories as untagged.
Place Clichy (
talk) 11:02, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Why don’t you help be doing this tagging that’s so important to you then, instead of continually opposing moves no one in the world including you actually opposes? —MichaelZ. 13:41, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Well,
Wikipedia is a volunteer service. I don't really find enough time to do things that are important to my eyes, I therefore have even less time for yours. I did however try to point you to
WP:CFD and follow the short but necessary steps in order to have the categories renamed (letting aside that not all occurrences of "Kiev" have to be renamed).
Place Clichy (
talk) 15:39, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Your time? What about our time? You're wasting my time and the time of other volunteers by opposing moves that are no-brainers. These should have been done on a speedy basis. Either articulate an actual opposition argument or please get out of the way. "Procedural oppose" of the child categories contradicts
WP:NOTBURO. Because the article is at
Kyiv Oblast, all the Kyiv Oblast categories should obviously use the same spelling.
Lev!vich 16:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Well, the guideline you cite also says “there is no deadline.” We can let this sit in discussion until we all reach a consensus that there is a
wp:SNOWBALL’s chance these won’t be renamed.
This obstruction seems completely pointless, and I am doubting that your unexplained objections are a good-faith effort toward anything of value. In fact, you expressed your disrespect for the consensus on the original RM when
you first piped up at a Kyiv-related discussion: The latest RM that resulted in renaming the article about the city to Kyiv is far, far, very far from showing a clear and over-reaching consensus. . . . As the consensus is weak and was fought for years about the name of the city, and per the examples above, imho it does not extends to other entities. If you intend to accomplish anything other than disruption, please explain what it is. Or don’t. We’re making an encyclopedia anyway. —MichaelZ. 17:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Speedy or not, categories have to be tagged before being renamed. I'm only trying to help you by pointing you to the most efficient process in this case, in the spirit of making you win time rather than lose it. The rest of the arguments are getting too personal... you did not seem to have shown much respect either for the numerous RM over the years which resulted in a long-standing consensus towards Kiev on the 15 pages of archives at
Talk:Kyiv/naming, by bringing up the topic again and again and again.
Place Clichy (
talk) 10:06, 13 October 2020 (UTC)reply
The rest of the arguments are too personal, so let me tell you what’s wrong with your attitude – Nice. But unfair. I was an editor during all thirteen move requests. As far as I can tell from the archive, I opposed the first, argued against one or two others, sat most of them out, and I supported the last one. I participated in discussions. I opposed a “moratorium” on moves that was not supported by a clear consensus, and I believe was abused by a few overenthusiastic editors to stifle discussion when it was needed most. I believe my view was vindicated when the decision was finally rendered over eight months later. I respect Wikipedia and its guidelines – even good arguments that the dated spelling may still be appropriate in some places – but I do not respect blind obstruction. “Trying to help”? You have forced speedy CFDs to discussion, for no reason. —MichaelZ. 17:36, 13 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Place Clichy is fully entitled to their procedural oppose and there is a serious risk that the nomination will not be closed, or closed as no consensus, if nearly all categories remain untagged.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:09, 11 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Sounds like an improvement. —MichaelZ. 14:56, 14 October 2020 (UTC) But look at its many siblings in
Category:Football competitions in the regions of Ukraine. For
wp:CONSISTENCY in title pattern, I suggest a separate move request for all those cats. For consistency in this oblast’s category tree, let’s complete this move as it stands. —MichaelZ. 17:46, 25 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Shevchenkivskyi District (Kiev)
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Nominator's rationale: After move of top-level main article Kiev→
Kyiv, and for consistency with main article’s title, all parent categories’ titles, and all other contained articles’ titles. —MichaelZ. 18:44, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support move to
Category:Shevchenkivskyi District, Kyiv - per nom and also Shevchenkivskyi District is an extant district, and the article is titled
Shevchenkivskyi District, Kyiv, so the
WP:EPONYMOUS category should have the same title with the same spelling, and all the child categories should match the parent. Additionally,
WP:CATNAME provides When an article topic requires disambiguation, any category eponymously named for that topic should include the same form of disambiguation ..., so the category should match the article for that reason. Finally, although
Kyiv is a city and not a country, we should follow the guidance of WP:CATNAME: For "of country" and "in country" categories, the name of the country should appear as it does in the name of the article about that country ... (bold in original). The name of the city disambiguator of the district category should also appear as it does in the names of the articles about that district and city. Anything else would be confusing to the reader. (And I don't understand why a speedy moved would be opposed; seems obvious and indisputable, as an eponoymous category, and as a disambiguated category.)
Lev!vich 16:01, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
I’ll fully support whichever disambiguation format is preferred by the guidelines, plus we should ensure consistency in this category tree and in others. —MichaelZ. 19:56, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support for consistency with earlier renames.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:36, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Podilskyi District (Kiev)
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The result of the discussion was:rename as nominated.
MER-C 18:55, 14 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Remove unnecessary disambiguation for consistency with main article’s title. Alternatively, move to
Category:Podilskyi District (Kyiv), after move of top-level main article Kiev→
Kyiv, for consistency with parent category’s and contained articles’ titles. —MichaelZ. 18:42, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support move to
Category:Podilskyi District - per nom. Podilskyi District is an extant district, and the article is titled
Podilskyi District. The article is not disambiguated so the category needn't be. (Why wasn't this done speedy? Seems obvious and indisputable that if the article isn't disambiguated, the category shouldn't be either.)
Lev!vich 16:01, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support for consistency with earlier renames.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:36, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support per main article name.
Place Clichy (
talk) 10:06, 13 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Dniprovskyi District (Kiev)
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Nominator's rationale: After move of Kiev→
Kyiv, and for consistency with main article’s title, parent category’s title, and all other contained articles’ titles. —MichaelZ. 18:38, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support move to
Category:Dniprovskyi District, Kyiv - per nom and also Dniprovskyi District is an extant district, and the article is titled
Dniprovskyi District, Kyiv, so the
WP:EPONYMOUS category should have the same title with the same spelling, and all the child categories should match the parent. Additionally,
WP:CATNAME provides When an article topic requires disambiguation, any category eponymously named for that topic should include the same form of disambiguation ..., so the category should match the article for that reason. Finally, although
Kyiv is a city and not a country, we should follow the guidance of WP:CATNAME: For "of country" and "in country" categories, the name of the country should appear as it does in the name of the article about that country ... (bold in original). The name of the city disambiguator of the district category should also appear as it does in the names of the articles about that district and city. Anything else would be confusing to the reader. (And I don't understand why a speedy moved would be opposed; seems obvious and indisputable, as an eponoymous category, and as a disambiguated category.)
Lev!vich 16:01, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
I’ll fully support whichever disambiguation format is preferred by the guidelines, plus we should ensure consistency in this category tree and in others. —MichaelZ. 19:56, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Support for consistency with earlier renames.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:37, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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The result of the discussion was:speedily deleted. –
FayenaticLondon 12:19, 12 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete because (a)
it introduced a bug to a highly visible and popular template, (b) the category itself is basically pointless, and (c) its creator had no objection to deleting it (
back in June). History DMZ(
talk)+(
ping) 08:48, 12 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Jewish slave owners
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May I respectfully suggest you to have a look at our guidelines
WP:EGRS and
WP:OCEGRS? The fact that
Aaron Lopez was, a the same time, a Jew and a slave owner does not seem to indicate any defining link between the two. To follow your comparison about Arabs, Africans and Maltese, I also believe that a category about Hebrew slave owners would be eligible if it concentrated on ancient Hebrews at the time when they practiced slavery.
Place Clichy (
talk) 11:02, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom and per discussion further down on this page. Slave owner is not an occupation, by the way. Aaron Lopez is not a member of this category, by the way.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 16:44, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete fails
WP:OCEGRS and being a slave-owner is not an "occupation" any more than owning some other property; also, I question the notability factor: are these folks notable because they were Jewish and owned slaves or was either trait incidental to their claims to fame?
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 22:22, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete I am not sure being a slave owner is encyclopaedical, but the intersection with an ethnicity surely isn't.
Debresser (
talk) 23:32, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep I agree with Torchist that categories by ethnicity are defining.
Dimadick (
talk) 15:10, 11 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Space WikiProjects
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Category:Jewish slave traders
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Delete per nom. The category is also very offensive.
SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (
talk) 04:46, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete per
WP:OCEGRS, unrelated intersection with ethnicity and religion.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:13, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep they are described by their ethnicity in reliable sources and Wikipedia has other categories for
Category:Jews by occupation such as
Category:Jewish scientists and
Category:Jewish merchants. Individuals such as
Aaron Lopez, for instance often had changing involvement with different states: born in Portugal, became involved with the English and then was involved in the Americas. The Sephardic merchants of the age of slavery are treated in academic sources as a distinctive class or group: examples of these treatments are works such as "Jews, Slaves, and the Slave Trade" (1998) by
Eli Faber and "Jews and the American Slave Trade" by Saul S. Friedman (1998). We also have other ethnic categories for slave traders and owners such as
Category:Arab slave owners,
Category:African slave owners,
Category:Maltese slave owners, etc. No reason Jews should be any different or white-washed from this.
Torchist (
talk) 16:00, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Eli Faber countered the suggestion that slave trade was more than proportionally dominated by Jews so that supports deletion of the category. Aaron Lopez can simply be categorized as an American slave trader.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 16:40, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
You're arguing something completely different here. Whether they "dominated" it or not, there were Jewish slave traders and owners and specific academic treatments have been authored about them (such as by Faber) which cover the topic of Jewish slave and owners and traders as specifically Jewish (just as there are of Arabs and Africans who owned slaved). The United States only existed for a brief time when Lopez lived and was a slave trader, he also lived in Portugal, Britain, etc (he is just one example of many with a similar complex situation). We have biographical articles about some of these people, there is no less reason to have a Wikipedia category for them than there is for Arab slave traders.
Torchist (
talk) 17:33, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Weak Keep - there has been a lot of talk about the topic
Jews and the American Slave Trade, and while most if not all respectable academics say that the role Jews played in the slave trade is minimal at best, that does not negate the coverage this subject has received. I agree with the nominator that it would be odd if any other category was created with the intersection of religion and being a slave trader,but at the same time we have categories intersecting being Jewish with other occupations that are not found with any other religion. Currently I feel that the rational for deletion is simply that some people might find it offensive, and per
WP:IDONTLIKEIT and
WP:NOTCENSORED I don't feel its a valid argument.
Inter&anthro (
talk) 15:31, 7 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete were any of these folks notable because they were both Jews and slave traders, or merely they were slave traders who happened to be Jews? i.e., if they had been only slave traders they wouldn't have been notable because other religions acquiesced in slave trading while Judaism somehow opposed it? No evidence has come to light to support that concept, so this is an arbitrary combination somehow dividing slave traders by the religion they held is arbitrary. This isn't an
WP:IDONTLIKEIT and
WP:NOTCENSORED issue as discussed above. Because our consensus is that categorization of bad behavior by race/religion/ethnicity is arbitrary.
WP:OCEGRS.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 22:33, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Weak delete Looks like a non-notable intersection of an ethnicity and an occupation.
Debresser (
talk) 23:31, 8 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete as an unneeded cross-categorisation & non-defining. --
K.e.coffman (
talk) 18:29, 10 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep I agree with Torchist that categorization by ethnicity is defining.
Dimadick (
talk) 15:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete. Many of the entries are imprecise (not Jewish, not slave traders). The category itself is not needed and non-defining. antisemitic texts written by the
Nation of Islam, as well as a very small set of scholarly rebuttals (which refute this being of any significance), are not the basis for a category, for the same reason
Category:Jewish bloodsuckers is illegitimate, even though one could possibly populate it.--
Astral Leap (
talk) 08:57, 12 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete, non-defining cross-categorisation that serves no legitimate purpose.
BD Mason (
talk) 05:37, 13 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Haitian superheroes
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Category:Argentine superheroes
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Category:Peruvian superheroes
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Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Venezuelan superheroes
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Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Tibetan superheroes
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Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Czech superheroes
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Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Colombian superheroes
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Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Mexican children's animated superhero television series
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Delete per nom and for now. There is not a lot of animated superhero shows from Mexico.
SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (
talk) 04:53, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Hong Kong superheroes
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Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Guatemalan superheroes
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Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Dominican Republic superheroes
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: Neither of the characters in the article are Dominican, but rather Americans of Dominican descent. JDDJS (
talk to me •
see what I've done) 03:53, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment - it appears that this category has been emptied during the course of this CfD. Whether the outcme is merge or not, this should not have happened.
Grutness...wha? 16:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.