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The result of the discussion was:merge.
MER-C 02:55, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Fails
WP:SMALLCAT. Nine articles and, barring taxonomic revisions, no potential for growth. Proposing merging this one back up into its parent category, which with ~115 articles is nowhere near the size where splitting off subcategories with less than a dozen articles is warranted.
AddWittyNameHere 21:08, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
9 articles, all clearly belonging, is enough to merit a category if it is sufficiently defining.
Rathfelder (
talk) 21:33, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
In this particular case merging does not harm, the articles will appear together in the parent category because all article names start with "Crassuncus".
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Favor. The parent category has three potentially larger subcategories--genera with more species. But even then, and even with the category in question merged back into its parent, the whole parent category will be on one page. I don't favor breaking taxonomic categories up into every possible sub-subcategory. I've created and populated many, many subcategories. But I do it only when the subcategory will be substantial, or it will make a SIGNIFICANT difference (that is to say, fewer pages) to a very large parent category. I've seen many categories with subcategories having two or three articles, so I'm glad to see that this sort of thing might actually be done.
Uporządnicki (
talk) 02:09, 5 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Weak merge I think nine articles is enough for a genus-level category, provided that all other genera in the same tribe/family with more articles also have their own categories. But 123 articles in the tribe category wouldn't be enough to require diffusion to genus categories. If somebody wants to break Oidaematophorini down further into subcategories for genera, they certainly could do so. But nominator is currently the most likely editor to be inclined to make that effort with Lepidoptera categories. If AWNH wants to merge upward rather than diffuse downward, I'll support that.
Plantdrew (
talk) 04:06, 6 January 2020 (UTC)reply
That's pretty much my reasoning, yeah. Diffusing to genera is perfectly fine if done systematically, with all genera large enough to support a category getting diffused; it's also fine if most genera stay in the parent category and only the very large ones get diffused. However, piecemeal "random genera A and B get diffused, genera C, D, E and F which all have more species than A do not" diffusion is incredibly inconsistent, and given that the options to make things consistent are "upmerge a 9-article subcat" versus "create four additional subcategories for 10-30 articles each to further diffuse a category only barely into the triple digits", I'd consider upmerge more sensible than diffuse here.
AddWittyNameHere 07:44, 6 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:American Civil War wargames
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The result of the discussion was:delete.
MER-C 02:53, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
I concur. Delete the category. How about just
Category:American Civil War board games If it a board game and it is about the American Civil War surely it is also a wargame. Its kind of over redundant if you get my drift.
Boston1775 (
talk) 12:19, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment Category has been emptied. LizRead!Talk! 16:31, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Grape pests and diseases
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The result of the discussion was:merge.
MER-C 02:55, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: With just 2 subcats and 1 parent this "X and Y" category is an unnecessary layer of categorization. Note: The editor who moved it to this title and then created a category at the original title has been blocked. DexDor(talk) 17:16, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Support - bizarre, even for NotWith/Caftaric.
Oculi (
talk) 19:14, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kings of Rohan
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Keep - nothing here is over-categorised. Categorising a king of Rohan as a 'King of Rohan' is spot-on; a defining characteristic. See
Category:Kings of Yugoslavia for an example. And nominations which state 'delete' when they mean upmerge should be closed on sight.
Oculi (
talk) 19:18, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Upmerge per Marcocapelle. SMALLCAT applies, and a fictional kingdom can't really be seen as a valuable exception.
Place Clichy (
talk) 00:17, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Upmerge per Marcocapelle. I don't understand
John Pack Lambert's argument; the Rohirrim category still includes 2 other articles and some redirects, and it would be inappropriate to remove the two major Rohirrim characters from that category as he suggests. –
FayenaticLondon 13:48, 9 January 2020 (UTC)reply
So you think a category containing 4 fictional characters makes sense? Redirects are cheap and in the case of Middle-earth related cases are way too abundant.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 16:46, 9 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bulgarian land
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The result of the discussion was:delete.
MER-C 02:53, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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The result of the discussion was:do not merge.
MER-C 03:01, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom. The scopes of these categories are very much overlapping.
Place Clichy (
talk) 19:19, 27 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Not really - one is defined by a language, and the other by a period, when more than one language was used.
Johnbod (
talk) 22:44, 27 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Changed to Neutral. I thought that English was also stemming from Latin. I do not really see an obvious interest incarving out medieval Anglo-Saxon literature in several language-based identities. There would be obvious reasons why early medieval scholars would write in Latin, that does not create a different literature. But then the making of British identity is not my specialty.
Place Clichy (
talk) 00:17, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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MER-C 03:08, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Johnbod offered a convincing argument to keep. So that also means that Anglo-Saxon should become the parent category of Old English instead of vice versa. And articles about texts written in Old English that are currently directly in the Anglo-Saxon category should be moved to the Old English subcategory.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 14:01, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose. As per Johnbod, sounds like this category does have a valid place here. --
Sm8900 (
talk) 15:01, 7 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Giant stripping shovels
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Nominator's rationale: Per parent article
power shovel. What power shovels are "ultra-heavy" or "giant" seems subjective, and there is no need to have a separate category only for large ones.
Huon (
talk) 01:40, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
OpposeCategory:Stripping shovels would be OK (and already in use on Commons) but these are not simply "power shovels", they're stripping shovels. That's a size and a purpose that is different to just generic excavators.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 10:22, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
The
power shovel article says that power shovels are also called stripping shovels (we should probably have a redirect there), it distinguishes them from "generic
excavators", and it seems to cover these very machines (compare "Notable examples" section).
Andy Dingley, are you saying that these are not power shovels at all, are you saying that these are all of a specific sub-class and that categorizing them with other power shovels would lead to an overly full category, or what exactly is your objection?
Huon (
talk) 19:26, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Yet again, WP is not WP:RS!
Stripping shovels are a task, power shovels are an implementation. Because of the size needed, power shovels for stripping were distinctively larger than those for other tasks, such as railway or road construction. Also many stripping shovels weren't even shovels, but rather
draglines (such as Big Muskie) - how to draw the boundary here could still be a question.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 20:36, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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MER-C 03:01, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Video games with alternate endings
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The result of the discussion was:no consensus.
MER-C 03:02, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Not defining. This has been very common among certain genres of video game (e.g. fighting games and RPGs) since the mid-1990s and is about as common as the alternative if not moreso. ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 11:01, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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MER-C 03:01, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete non-defining; do we even have an article on this? Moreover, depending on how one plays, presumably the ending isn't a foregone conclusion, thus is inherent in most video games that allow user input.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 21:28, 7 January 2020 (UTC)reply
That is a fair objection against deletion. I guess it would only be effective if we would cut the entire Fiction with alternate endings tree.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:34, 8 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kharkiv River
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The result of the discussion was:delete.
MER-C 02:54, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:delete per
WP:SMALLCAT, it only contains the main article and a bridge. The
Kharkiv River is a tributary of a tributary of a tributary of the
Don River.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:11, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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MER-C 03:01, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:DiDi
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The result of the discussion was:delete.
MER-C 02:54, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:delete per
WP:SMALLCAT, it only contains the main article and a subcategory.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:14, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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MER-C 03:01, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Chapters of the book of Isaiah
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The result of the discussion was:selective merge as nominated.
MER-C 03:00, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: selectively merge per
WP:SMALLCAT, the large amount of these categories consists of the main articles about these chapters (which are already in
Category:Book of Isaiah chapters) and redirects to the same chapter articles. The few other articles should be moved to
Category:Book of Isaiah.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:32, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Support Small categories with no chance of expansion.
Dimadick (
talk) 15:06, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Support in general but with a different outcome -- Commentary on Bible passages is a respectable topic; merely quoting them is non-encyclopedic. Most of the content on specific verses seems to be redirects, probably resulting from articles on them being merged back to the chapters. I am surprised at the lack of categories on some chapters that are much quoted by Christians, such as 53. The topic articles should be moved as suggested; but this will leave
Category:Book of Isaiah cluttered up with a mass of useless redirects. I would suggest
Category:Book of Isaiah verses as the merge target: I suppose there will be some useful administrative purpose in having all the verse redirects together where they will not clutter up a useful parent with articles that should be in
Category:Book of Isaiah.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 16:52, 27 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
MER-C 03:21, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Relisting comment: clear consensus to merge, but I would like input regarding the alternative merge suggestion (to
Category:Book of Isaiah verses instead) by Peterkingiron.
MER-C 03:21, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
I am not thrilled about Peterkingiron's alternative to create a new category just for redirects. If people are interested in the text of the book of Isaiah they already have the chapters category at hand.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 13:55, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep - not sure why editors are so keen on dismantling well-considered subcat schemes. And the redirects I have looked at such as
Isaiah 9:7,
Isaiah 9:6 are useful.
Oculi (
talk) 19:29, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
I wouldn't call it well-considered when half of these subcats consist of only the main article. By the way there is nothing against the existence of the verse redirects. But you no longer need the redirects after you had already found the chapter article.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:17, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Support nomination; merging to
Category:Book of Isaiah should be very selective indeed, but there is an existing target category
Category:Hebrew Bible verses in which the verse redirects would belong. I can't see how these categories are currently useful for navigation, even e.g.
Category:Isaiah 15 which contains separate articles
Ar (city) &
Kir of Moab – those are linked from the article
Isaiah 15, and "see also" links (with explanation) are more useful on the city articles. All the redirects from verse numbers can be found via
Special:Prefixindex/Isaiah, if anybody wants to see which verses have a redirect, but would be listed in the correct order if added to
Category:Hebrew Bible verses. IMHO that would be better than creating a new
Category:Book of Isaiah verses. –
FayenaticLondon 14:45, 9 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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The result of the discussion was:merge.
MER-C 02:55, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Fails
WP:SMALLCAT. Nine articles and, barring taxonomic revisions, no potential for growth. Proposing merging this one back up into its parent category, which with ~115 articles is nowhere near the size where splitting off subcategories with less than a dozen articles is warranted.
AddWittyNameHere 21:08, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
9 articles, all clearly belonging, is enough to merit a category if it is sufficiently defining.
Rathfelder (
talk) 21:33, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
In this particular case merging does not harm, the articles will appear together in the parent category because all article names start with "Crassuncus".
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Favor. The parent category has three potentially larger subcategories--genera with more species. But even then, and even with the category in question merged back into its parent, the whole parent category will be on one page. I don't favor breaking taxonomic categories up into every possible sub-subcategory. I've created and populated many, many subcategories. But I do it only when the subcategory will be substantial, or it will make a SIGNIFICANT difference (that is to say, fewer pages) to a very large parent category. I've seen many categories with subcategories having two or three articles, so I'm glad to see that this sort of thing might actually be done.
Uporządnicki (
talk) 02:09, 5 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Weak merge I think nine articles is enough for a genus-level category, provided that all other genera in the same tribe/family with more articles also have their own categories. But 123 articles in the tribe category wouldn't be enough to require diffusion to genus categories. If somebody wants to break Oidaematophorini down further into subcategories for genera, they certainly could do so. But nominator is currently the most likely editor to be inclined to make that effort with Lepidoptera categories. If AWNH wants to merge upward rather than diffuse downward, I'll support that.
Plantdrew (
talk) 04:06, 6 January 2020 (UTC)reply
That's pretty much my reasoning, yeah. Diffusing to genera is perfectly fine if done systematically, with all genera large enough to support a category getting diffused; it's also fine if most genera stay in the parent category and only the very large ones get diffused. However, piecemeal "random genera A and B get diffused, genera C, D, E and F which all have more species than A do not" diffusion is incredibly inconsistent, and given that the options to make things consistent are "upmerge a 9-article subcat" versus "create four additional subcategories for 10-30 articles each to further diffuse a category only barely into the triple digits", I'd consider upmerge more sensible than diffuse here.
AddWittyNameHere 07:44, 6 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:American Civil War wargames
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The result of the discussion was:delete.
MER-C 02:53, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
I concur. Delete the category. How about just
Category:American Civil War board games If it a board game and it is about the American Civil War surely it is also a wargame. Its kind of over redundant if you get my drift.
Boston1775 (
talk) 12:19, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment Category has been emptied. LizRead!Talk! 16:31, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Grape pests and diseases
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The result of the discussion was:merge.
MER-C 02:55, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: With just 2 subcats and 1 parent this "X and Y" category is an unnecessary layer of categorization. Note: The editor who moved it to this title and then created a category at the original title has been blocked. DexDor(talk) 17:16, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Support - bizarre, even for NotWith/Caftaric.
Oculi (
talk) 19:14, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kings of Rohan
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Keep - nothing here is over-categorised. Categorising a king of Rohan as a 'King of Rohan' is spot-on; a defining characteristic. See
Category:Kings of Yugoslavia for an example. And nominations which state 'delete' when they mean upmerge should be closed on sight.
Oculi (
talk) 19:18, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Upmerge per Marcocapelle. SMALLCAT applies, and a fictional kingdom can't really be seen as a valuable exception.
Place Clichy (
talk) 00:17, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Upmerge per Marcocapelle. I don't understand
John Pack Lambert's argument; the Rohirrim category still includes 2 other articles and some redirects, and it would be inappropriate to remove the two major Rohirrim characters from that category as he suggests. –
FayenaticLondon 13:48, 9 January 2020 (UTC)reply
So you think a category containing 4 fictional characters makes sense? Redirects are cheap and in the case of Middle-earth related cases are way too abundant.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 16:46, 9 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bulgarian land
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The result of the discussion was:delete.
MER-C 02:53, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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The result of the discussion was:do not merge.
MER-C 03:01, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom. The scopes of these categories are very much overlapping.
Place Clichy (
talk) 19:19, 27 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Not really - one is defined by a language, and the other by a period, when more than one language was used.
Johnbod (
talk) 22:44, 27 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Changed to Neutral. I thought that English was also stemming from Latin. I do not really see an obvious interest incarving out medieval Anglo-Saxon literature in several language-based identities. There would be obvious reasons why early medieval scholars would write in Latin, that does not create a different literature. But then the making of British identity is not my specialty.
Place Clichy (
talk) 00:17, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
MER-C 03:08, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Johnbod offered a convincing argument to keep. So that also means that Anglo-Saxon should become the parent category of Old English instead of vice versa. And articles about texts written in Old English that are currently directly in the Anglo-Saxon category should be moved to the Old English subcategory.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 14:01, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose. As per Johnbod, sounds like this category does have a valid place here. --
Sm8900 (
talk) 15:01, 7 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Giant stripping shovels
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Nominator's rationale: Per parent article
power shovel. What power shovels are "ultra-heavy" or "giant" seems subjective, and there is no need to have a separate category only for large ones.
Huon (
talk) 01:40, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
OpposeCategory:Stripping shovels would be OK (and already in use on Commons) but these are not simply "power shovels", they're stripping shovels. That's a size and a purpose that is different to just generic excavators.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 10:22, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
The
power shovel article says that power shovels are also called stripping shovels (we should probably have a redirect there), it distinguishes them from "generic
excavators", and it seems to cover these very machines (compare "Notable examples" section).
Andy Dingley, are you saying that these are not power shovels at all, are you saying that these are all of a specific sub-class and that categorizing them with other power shovels would lead to an overly full category, or what exactly is your objection?
Huon (
talk) 19:26, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Yet again, WP is not WP:RS!
Stripping shovels are a task, power shovels are an implementation. Because of the size needed, power shovels for stripping were distinctively larger than those for other tasks, such as railway or road construction. Also many stripping shovels weren't even shovels, but rather
draglines (such as Big Muskie) - how to draw the boundary here could still be a question.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 20:36, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
MER-C 03:01, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Video games with alternate endings
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The result of the discussion was:no consensus.
MER-C 03:02, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Not defining. This has been very common among certain genres of video game (e.g. fighting games and RPGs) since the mid-1990s and is about as common as the alternative if not moreso. ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 11:01, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
MER-C 03:01, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete non-defining; do we even have an article on this? Moreover, depending on how one plays, presumably the ending isn't a foregone conclusion, thus is inherent in most video games that allow user input.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 21:28, 7 January 2020 (UTC)reply
That is a fair objection against deletion. I guess it would only be effective if we would cut the entire Fiction with alternate endings tree.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:34, 8 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kharkiv River
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The result of the discussion was:delete.
MER-C 02:54, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:delete per
WP:SMALLCAT, it only contains the main article and a bridge. The
Kharkiv River is a tributary of a tributary of a tributary of the
Don River.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:11, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
MER-C 03:01, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:DiDi
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was:delete.
MER-C 02:54, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:delete per
WP:SMALLCAT, it only contains the main article and a subcategory.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:14, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
MER-C 03:01, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Chapters of the book of Isaiah
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was:selective merge as nominated.
MER-C 03:00, 11 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: selectively merge per
WP:SMALLCAT, the large amount of these categories consists of the main articles about these chapters (which are already in
Category:Book of Isaiah chapters) and redirects to the same chapter articles. The few other articles should be moved to
Category:Book of Isaiah.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:32, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Support Small categories with no chance of expansion.
Dimadick (
talk) 15:06, 26 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Support in general but with a different outcome -- Commentary on Bible passages is a respectable topic; merely quoting them is non-encyclopedic. Most of the content on specific verses seems to be redirects, probably resulting from articles on them being merged back to the chapters. I am surprised at the lack of categories on some chapters that are much quoted by Christians, such as 53. The topic articles should be moved as suggested; but this will leave
Category:Book of Isaiah cluttered up with a mass of useless redirects. I would suggest
Category:Book of Isaiah verses as the merge target: I suppose there will be some useful administrative purpose in having all the verse redirects together where they will not clutter up a useful parent with articles that should be in
Category:Book of Isaiah.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 16:52, 27 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
MER-C 03:21, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Relisting comment: clear consensus to merge, but I would like input regarding the alternative merge suggestion (to
Category:Book of Isaiah verses instead) by Peterkingiron.
MER-C 03:21, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
I am not thrilled about Peterkingiron's alternative to create a new category just for redirects. If people are interested in the text of the book of Isaiah they already have the chapters category at hand.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 13:55, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep - not sure why editors are so keen on dismantling well-considered subcat schemes. And the redirects I have looked at such as
Isaiah 9:7,
Isaiah 9:6 are useful.
Oculi (
talk) 19:29, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
I wouldn't call it well-considered when half of these subcats consist of only the main article. By the way there is nothing against the existence of the verse redirects. But you no longer need the redirects after you had already found the chapter article.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:17, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Support nomination; merging to
Category:Book of Isaiah should be very selective indeed, but there is an existing target category
Category:Hebrew Bible verses in which the verse redirects would belong. I can't see how these categories are currently useful for navigation, even e.g.
Category:Isaiah 15 which contains separate articles
Ar (city) &
Kir of Moab – those are linked from the article
Isaiah 15, and "see also" links (with explanation) are more useful on the city articles. All the redirects from verse numbers can be found via
Special:Prefixindex/Isaiah, if anybody wants to see which verses have a redirect, but would be listed in the correct order if added to
Category:Hebrew Bible verses. IMHO that would be better than creating a new
Category:Book of Isaiah verses. –
FayenaticLondon 14:45, 9 January 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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