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talk page or in a
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Category:Fictional characters involved in incest
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: I don't see how this is a defining trait or possible to apply consistently. This category has contained everything from in-law sex, characters who married second cousins, child molestation by relative and rape. Who defines what is incest is here?
★Trekker (
talk)
18:55, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment:Who defines what is incest is here? I'm sure I'm missing the actual question, but
Incest has a known definition. Also, if sources use the term to describe these characters, like
Cersei Lannister (
[1]), that also works. No comment on the category. --
Gonnym (
talk)
19:03, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Problem is that "what is incest" varies a lot by culture. For example, is
cousin marriage (first cousisn, second cousins, first cousisn once removed) incest? In some cultures it is considered to be, in others not. Sex with your
sister-in-law is seen as incest in some cultures as well and used to be in places like England too. With step or adopted relatives? With former step or adopted relatives? I also have a major problem with the "involved with" label, to me being molested by an uncle or raped by your father isn't much of involved with. It's like categorizing sexual assault victims with "characters involved with rape". It's totally inappropriate and misinformative.
★Trekker (
talk)
19:12, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep I was unaware of the category's existence, but I am not convinced by Treker's arguments. What counts as incest should be defined by sourced text in the article, not by seeking some kind of universal cultural standard.
Dimadick (
talk)
22:44, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Problem is that even sources can disagree on stuff like this. You get one source which claims almost anything, that doesn't mean it's the widely accepted opinion among readers/viewers. I know you like to keep almost every category you see Dimadick but the problem with this one is that it's fundamentally POV even from sources.
★Trekker (
talk)
09:12, 29 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Question, "involved in" sounds rather vague, is it possible to make this more specific? If that is not the case, it may be an additional (weak) reason for deletion.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
03:53, 29 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Its terrible wording honestly, I don't find it remotly reasonable to include characters like the Lannisters and small children who were molested in the same category as is the things are comparable. Not sure what would be better name.
★Trekker (
talk)
09:12, 29 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep but perhaps purge of cousin-relationships -- The closeness of the relationship for it to be incest does indeed vary between cultures. However, it should be possible to have a valid category limited to sexual relations between ancestors and descendants but including their siblings, so that uncle/niece and brother/sister would be included. This needs to be set out in a headnote. This a category relating to fiction, so that we know completely, based on what the author wrote. This differs from the real world, where we need to depend on convictions.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:49, 30 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment Check the main text instead. Several of the leads in fiction-related articles are substandard, mentioning little more than the title.
Dimadick (
talk)
17:52, 31 January 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Category:Abby Wambach
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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@
*Treker: my best guess is that you intend to propose this and all below categories to be merged to some or all of their parent categories. Could you please check all your nominations and indicate the appropriate merge target(s)?
Marcocapelle (
talk)
21:43, 19 January 2020 (UTC)reply
I'm not in favour of any large scale deleting here, I think "Character films" is useful for many well known characters with many films under their belts, just not this major overuse of them.
★Trekker (
talk)
19:17, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
I'm fully willing to add the correct categories to these pages. It's not that much of a hasle for me, if we just don't use a bot right away it won't be very hard. I understand if you still think it's the wrong choice tho.
★Trekker (
talk)
19:03, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Dimadick we can't have categories for every single character who has had a film, it's the "Children by Monarch" thing all over again, if someone only has one of a certain thing, that thing should not be categorized with its own category.
★Trekker (
talk)
19:01, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Films featuring Broly
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Category:Black Panther films
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Category:Kourosh Yaghmaei
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Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary eponymous parent category for two (or however many) albums and just the covers for those albums.
WP:OCEPON. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me19:33, 20 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge This tree contains three articles on albums; the same three produced by the subject; files for their covers; and a bio article. That is nearly enough for one category, but not four.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:56, 30 January 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Fictional characters involved in incest
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: I don't see how this is a defining trait or possible to apply consistently. This category has contained everything from in-law sex, characters who married second cousins, child molestation by relative and rape. Who defines what is incest is here?
★Trekker (
talk)
18:55, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment:Who defines what is incest is here? I'm sure I'm missing the actual question, but
Incest has a known definition. Also, if sources use the term to describe these characters, like
Cersei Lannister (
[1]), that also works. No comment on the category. --
Gonnym (
talk)
19:03, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Problem is that "what is incest" varies a lot by culture. For example, is
cousin marriage (first cousisn, second cousins, first cousisn once removed) incest? In some cultures it is considered to be, in others not. Sex with your
sister-in-law is seen as incest in some cultures as well and used to be in places like England too. With step or adopted relatives? With former step or adopted relatives? I also have a major problem with the "involved with" label, to me being molested by an uncle or raped by your father isn't much of involved with. It's like categorizing sexual assault victims with "characters involved with rape". It's totally inappropriate and misinformative.
★Trekker (
talk)
19:12, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep I was unaware of the category's existence, but I am not convinced by Treker's arguments. What counts as incest should be defined by sourced text in the article, not by seeking some kind of universal cultural standard.
Dimadick (
talk)
22:44, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Problem is that even sources can disagree on stuff like this. You get one source which claims almost anything, that doesn't mean it's the widely accepted opinion among readers/viewers. I know you like to keep almost every category you see Dimadick but the problem with this one is that it's fundamentally POV even from sources.
★Trekker (
talk)
09:12, 29 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Question, "involved in" sounds rather vague, is it possible to make this more specific? If that is not the case, it may be an additional (weak) reason for deletion.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
03:53, 29 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Its terrible wording honestly, I don't find it remotly reasonable to include characters like the Lannisters and small children who were molested in the same category as is the things are comparable. Not sure what would be better name.
★Trekker (
talk)
09:12, 29 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep but perhaps purge of cousin-relationships -- The closeness of the relationship for it to be incest does indeed vary between cultures. However, it should be possible to have a valid category limited to sexual relations between ancestors and descendants but including their siblings, so that uncle/niece and brother/sister would be included. This needs to be set out in a headnote. This a category relating to fiction, so that we know completely, based on what the author wrote. This differs from the real world, where we need to depend on convictions.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:49, 30 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment Check the main text instead. Several of the leads in fiction-related articles are substandard, mentioning little more than the title.
Dimadick (
talk)
17:52, 31 January 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Abby Wambach
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
@
*Treker: my best guess is that you intend to propose this and all below categories to be merged to some or all of their parent categories. Could you please check all your nominations and indicate the appropriate merge target(s)?
Marcocapelle (
talk)
21:43, 19 January 2020 (UTC)reply
I'm not in favour of any large scale deleting here, I think "Character films" is useful for many well known characters with many films under their belts, just not this major overuse of them.
★Trekker (
talk)
19:17, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
I'm fully willing to add the correct categories to these pages. It's not that much of a hasle for me, if we just don't use a bot right away it won't be very hard. I understand if you still think it's the wrong choice tho.
★Trekker (
talk)
19:03, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Dimadick we can't have categories for every single character who has had a film, it's the "Children by Monarch" thing all over again, if someone only has one of a certain thing, that thing should not be categorized with its own category.
★Trekker (
talk)
19:01, 28 January 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Films featuring Broly
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talk page or in a
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Category:Black Panther films
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talk page or in a
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Category:Kourosh Yaghmaei
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary eponymous parent category for two (or however many) albums and just the covers for those albums.
WP:OCEPON. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me19:33, 20 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge This tree contains three articles on albums; the same three produced by the subject; files for their covers; and a bio article. That is nearly enough for one category, but not four.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:56, 30 January 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.