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Comment, we might discuss the whole tree of novelists by descent as a trivial intersection. It is not trivial when they write about their country of descent but we have other categories for that.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
08:45, 29 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Upmerge to
Category:American writers of Indian descent and
Category:American novelists of Asian descent. The fact that the non-diffusing sub-cat is bigger than the parent category is telling. We have no other comparable American novelists by x descent category to make this part of a pattern. The other novelists categories we have that use descent are Asian descent, Arab descent and Hispanic and Latino descent. We have no other such category that refers to ancestry in a specific country. I also question the ability to create a well sourced article
American novelists of Indian descent that is more than just a list, which is one of the things needed to justify a category like this.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
14:03, 29 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete a meaningless "descent" category with the usual problems: (a) what do American novelists of "Indian descent" do differently than those who aren't (i.e., why is this notable); (b) how do we objectively define how much "Indian descent" makes one eligible for inclusion in this category? (is it a
One drop rule?); (c) how do we objectively define how recent must that "descent" be? If you credit that our species evolved from Africa, we're all of "African descent" ultimately so this is a universal like adding categories like
Category:Human beings to all biographies. Presumably if one can overcome (a) in the first instance, which I believe no one has thus demonstrated, whatever difference must be attenuated as (b) declines and (c) increases unless one takes the position that the merest of "Fooian descent" works like a
Mark of Cain that cannot be negated and one gets close to
racial essentialism.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
18:57, 4 January 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Movie Central original programming
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Nominator's rationale: Target category is no longer effectively served by maintaining multiple subcategories. This requires a bit of a complex explanation: prior to 2016, "The Movie Network" and "Movie Central" existed as two separate pay TV movie channels, one serving only Eastern Canada and one serving only Western Canada. But despite being owned by different companies at the time, they didn't invest in original programming independently of each other: TMN/MC programs were virtually always produced and/or aired jointly by both channels, so shows were always original to both channels rather than just one or the other. Then in 2016, MC sold out to TMN, so that TMN was now a fully national service -- and then in 2018 TMN rebranded itself as Crave. And while TMN and MC jointly branded one of their multiplex channels as "HBO Canada" in 2008, the programs they aired on that channel weren't actually branded as "HBO originals", but were still billed as "TMN/MC originals" since they were the parent services. (And even to this day, while one channel in the Crave multiplex is still named "HBO", its original content is still marketed as "Crave originals" rather than "HBO originals".) All of which means we don't really need four categories here: we don't need separate "Movie Central" and "The Movie Network" categories if all of the original programs they aired when they were separate things were always jointly shared by both services; we don't need a standalone "HBO" category if those shows have always been branded TMN/MC/Crave instead of HBO per se; and just merging them all into one new category but leaving that as a subcategory of Crave isn't necessary since TMN-->Crave was just a straight rebranding. It just isn't navigationally helpful to have four categories here, especially since not everything is actually subcategorized correctly. (There are "HBO" shows still in the TMN/MC cats instead of the HBO subcat, and TMN/MC shows that are being catted only as TMN and not as MC.) To be fair, separate TMN and MC categories seemed logical and reasonable when they were first created, back when TMN and MC were separate things, but given the current situation keeping four categories isn't effectively serving readers anymore.
Bearcat (
talk)
19:48, 21 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge MC & TNN/Neutral on HBO The first two make total sense, especially since they weren't substantively different prior even prior to the merger. The articles in the HBO Canada are split between just saying HBO and mentioning the other two networks which might be an editing issue so I'm less sure but certainly not opposed. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
01:58, 29 December 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Baseball venues in North Texas
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Merge According to our article on
North Texas, there are about 12 counties that are only sometimes included in this region. I think there's also a similar natural region of Texas which doesn't have an article yet. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄)
12:24, 29 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Doubtful -- We should upmerge, rather than delete. However there are four sibling categories for south, West, central and east Texas. If this is removed they should also go; other wise the category structure will be inconsistent.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:45, 1 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge as the first step. I think "Baseball venues" should be renamed to "Dedicated baseball stadiums" or something, because I wouldn't be surprised if baseball has been played at many non-dedicated venues which would turn this into a
WP:PERFCAT.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
20:47, 4 January 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:American women novelists of Indian descent
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Nominator's rationale I am very hesitant to bring this up at all since the existence of the parent category
Category:American women novelists caused some people to engage in very egregious and unfounded character assasinations against me, some of which were carried out in the main stream media. However, despite the attempts to use the media to broadcast one view of categorization and engage in vote recruiting, the category survived this attack on it. That said, we do not have
Category:African-American women novelists which would based on ethnic cohesion, historical ethnic size and ethnic uniquness be the most likely sub-cat to create (while Hispanics and Latinos outnumber African-Americans, Hispanics and Latinos are overall a less clearly unified group, but there are complicating issues, and for the vast majority of US history, African-Americans far outnumbered Hispanics and Latinos). This is actually on the order of a 4 part unifier. Even the parent category
Category:American women novelists is hard pressed to justify on OCERGS rules, but since we subdivided
Category:American novelists by century, we can be sure that all articles in
Category:American women novelists can easily be placed in the appropriate by century sub-cat, thus following ERGS categorization rules. With this being the only sub-cat of
Category:American women novelists except one category that groups one said novelists works, there is no real alternate way to split, and so it goes against the ERGS rules highly discouraging lowest rung category creation. Since we do have the parent
Category:American women writers of Indian descent we will not loose much in the upmerge.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
19:39, 28 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge as a trivial intersection between occupation and descent. It is not trivial when they write about India but we have other categories for that.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
08:55, 29 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment This is supposed to be a non-diffucsing sub-cat of
Category:American novelists of Indian descent, yet it is somehow bigger than the category it is not supposed to diffuse out of. This is impossible if we follow non-diffusing rules, so the current category in practice is leading to not following non-diffusing rules and in practice sits as a total violation of ERGS rules. When the system creates in practice something in violation of what are rules suggest, out rules are not working.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
14:46, 29 December 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:International Triathlon Union world championships
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Mayors of places in France
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Merge for Now All of these places likely had more than five mayors but most would be non-notable. No objection to recreating any if they exceed expectations and get to 5+ articles. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
02:05, 29 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom. Just a critical question:Category:People from Annecy that means usually: Born in Annecy -> not exactly what is reqired for mayors who rarely ever make their election in their birth cities/towns. How to solve the problem? An error of mine? --
Just N. (
talk)
22:32, 2 January 2021 (UTC)reply
from is not limited to birth, it may refer to any place a person has lived in for a considerable amount of time, especially while being notable.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
02:18, 3 January 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:San Marino and Rimini's Coast motorcycle Grand Prix
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Category:Dunkin' Brands
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Category:Activists who committed suicide
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable
WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.
Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
Comment I sampled several articles. What seemed more striking was not occupation so much as the circumstances of the suicide: (1) a reaction to being spurned by a lover (2) despair being a Jew trapped in Vichy France (3) PTSD (4) etc. Occupation is not significant; and I am not sure what makes some of them activists anyway.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:57, 1 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete "activists" (which our article defines as basically anyone who has lived past toddler age) is a BS category to begin with and nothing links "activists" with suicide.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
20:52, 4 January 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Doctors who committed suicide
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable
WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.
Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
Comment: Although
physicians are apparently twice as likely to end their lives by suicide, that is actively discouraged by the profession. Moreover, the problem isn't mainly with doctors themselves, it is the resident trainees where suicide is one of the leading causes of death. That's a reflection of how badly they are treated, not a professional qualification. We don't have a category for residents, as they aren't likely to be notable. If they commit suicide, they are very unlikely to become notable.
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Category:Jurists who committed suicide
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable
WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.
Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
Delete -- I sampled several articles. One was a judge who killed himself rather than face sexual abuse allegations. The others seemed to have killed themselves preferring a quick death to a chronic incurable illness. No link to occupation.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
18:02, 1 January 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Philosophers who committed suicide
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable
WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.
Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
This is an unclear counter proposal. If the category is kept, there is nothing to purge. E.g. while Charles Blount (deist) killed himself when rejected in love, he was still a philosopher.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
20:39, 1 January 2021 (UTC)reply
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Writers who committed suicide
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable
WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.
Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
Oh for goodness sake. Journalists was also under the main "by occupation" category. So I've removed it from there, and I've nominated all suicide by writer by sex by country quadruple-intersection subcategories (below). If folks want to keep Writers by sex, then Journalists can be merged there. William Allen Simpson (
talk)
10:16, 28 December 2020 (UTC)reply
@
William Allen Simpson: sorry to bother you again. Do you intend to propose deleting the intersection categories only, but not the top category of Writers who committed suicide? If that is the case, the proposal should be a merge rather than a deletion. Or if you do intend to propose deleting the top category as well, you need to expand your rationale.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
12:42, 28 December 2020 (UTC)reply
If all of these are approved, there will be no need to nominate the parent
Category:Writers who committed suicide. It will be deleted as empty. Until we've dealt with the constituent categories, we don't know whether we'll be allowed to delete the parent. That's the problem with doing things in batches over time. Also the problem with triple and quadruple intersection categories. Easy to create. Extremely time-consuming and difficult to delete. They should be outlawed entirely everywhere. William Allen Simpson (
talk)
14:37, 28 December 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Writers who committed suicide by nationality
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial triple-intersection. These must be inter-sex writers who are not already categorized as men or women. Otherwise, who in their right mind would categorize the same subcategories in a third way?
Comment — 51 not tagged, because they will be emptied.
Comment, this category will become empty when the categories in the two nominations below are deleted. So there is no need for a separate discussion about this category.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
17:19, 28 December 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Male writers who committed suicide
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A late correction: for now they should be merged to
Category:Male suicides because there is no discussion yet about whether or not gendered suïcide categories are kept. I guess that that discussion will start too within the next week. This overrules my previous delete vote but my earlier comment about Anciens Romans remains valid.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
09:23, 30 December 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Women writers who committed suicide
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A late correction: for now they should be merged to
Category:Female suicides because there is no discussion yet about whether or not gendered suïcide categories are kept. I guess that that discussion will start too within the next week. This overrules my previous delete vote.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
09:26, 30 December 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Aviators who committed suicide
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable
WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.
Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
Comment: Most subcategories were eliminated by previous CfD. Remaining subcategories are not nominated, as they are both already in other suicide subcategories.
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Category:Criminals who committed suicide
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable
WP:DEFINING link between being a criminal and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the criminality and the suicide, making the link even weaker. Also, these would not be those who were incarcerated, as those already exist separately:
Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their history and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
Comment: is [criminal | murderer | serial killer | Nazi collaborator] actually an occupation? How do you get paid for it? Why are Nazi collaborators criminals, but Nazis are not?
Purge -- This is NOT a trivial intersection. Cases where a criminal killed themselves while in custody or to avoid arrest are certainly notable. These are people who followed a course of action which had criminal consequences that they were not willing to face and see through. The purged category might be
Category:People who committed suicide to avoid prosecution. The headnote would probably need to explain that it covered people who were suspected of serious crime, but had not been convicted. Since the person is dead, I do not think there could be a libel suit. This would apply to the judge I noted under the jurists category.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
18:17, 1 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete this is a trivial intersection. Cases where someone accused of a crime committed suicide to avoid arrest or related reasons should not be categorized because they were not conviced and we should not assume the role of judge on people.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
19:13, 14 January 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Recipients of the Silver Wolf Award (The Scout Association)
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Several Scouting groups have "Silver Wolf" awards and
this one is from
The Scout Association in the UK. There are really two categories of winners here:
1: British Scouting people who are generally categorized in other scouting categories like
Garth Morrison and
Garth Morrison along with some colonial representation like
Charles Hoadley
The first group is generally well categorized in other Scouting categories and mentions the award in passing. For international recipients, the
Bronze Wolf Award and
Silver Fish Award are considered the top international award. Neither group seems defined by this award. There wasn't a complete list so I created one
right here in the main article. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:04, 28 December 2020 (UTC)reply
OK to DeleteThanks for the ping. I was too late to comment on the one deletion that was in error (Eagle) which is a widely noted objectively earned level, not an award. This case is (just) an award. North8000 (
talk)
12:31, 28 December 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Ten Outstanding Young Persons of the World
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The
Ten Outstanding Young Persons of the World an award from the
Junior Chamber International for promising young people. But Wikipedia doesn't have articles on promising young people. By the time these people accomplish something else and have a Wikipedia article created, this award usually gets a passing reference. I'm not even sure if this was the intent of the category though because it only has the award article, a list and one winner. The current contents are already listified
here in a separate list article for any reader interested in the topic. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:04, 28 December 2020 (UTC)reply
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Comment, we might discuss the whole tree of novelists by descent as a trivial intersection. It is not trivial when they write about their country of descent but we have other categories for that.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
08:45, 29 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Upmerge to
Category:American writers of Indian descent and
Category:American novelists of Asian descent. The fact that the non-diffusing sub-cat is bigger than the parent category is telling. We have no other comparable American novelists by x descent category to make this part of a pattern. The other novelists categories we have that use descent are Asian descent, Arab descent and Hispanic and Latino descent. We have no other such category that refers to ancestry in a specific country. I also question the ability to create a well sourced article
American novelists of Indian descent that is more than just a list, which is one of the things needed to justify a category like this.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
14:03, 29 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete a meaningless "descent" category with the usual problems: (a) what do American novelists of "Indian descent" do differently than those who aren't (i.e., why is this notable); (b) how do we objectively define how much "Indian descent" makes one eligible for inclusion in this category? (is it a
One drop rule?); (c) how do we objectively define how recent must that "descent" be? If you credit that our species evolved from Africa, we're all of "African descent" ultimately so this is a universal like adding categories like
Category:Human beings to all biographies. Presumably if one can overcome (a) in the first instance, which I believe no one has thus demonstrated, whatever difference must be attenuated as (b) declines and (c) increases unless one takes the position that the merest of "Fooian descent" works like a
Mark of Cain that cannot be negated and one gets close to
racial essentialism.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
18:57, 4 January 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Movie Central original programming
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Nominator's rationale: Target category is no longer effectively served by maintaining multiple subcategories. This requires a bit of a complex explanation: prior to 2016, "The Movie Network" and "Movie Central" existed as two separate pay TV movie channels, one serving only Eastern Canada and one serving only Western Canada. But despite being owned by different companies at the time, they didn't invest in original programming independently of each other: TMN/MC programs were virtually always produced and/or aired jointly by both channels, so shows were always original to both channels rather than just one or the other. Then in 2016, MC sold out to TMN, so that TMN was now a fully national service -- and then in 2018 TMN rebranded itself as Crave. And while TMN and MC jointly branded one of their multiplex channels as "HBO Canada" in 2008, the programs they aired on that channel weren't actually branded as "HBO originals", but were still billed as "TMN/MC originals" since they were the parent services. (And even to this day, while one channel in the Crave multiplex is still named "HBO", its original content is still marketed as "Crave originals" rather than "HBO originals".) All of which means we don't really need four categories here: we don't need separate "Movie Central" and "The Movie Network" categories if all of the original programs they aired when they were separate things were always jointly shared by both services; we don't need a standalone "HBO" category if those shows have always been branded TMN/MC/Crave instead of HBO per se; and just merging them all into one new category but leaving that as a subcategory of Crave isn't necessary since TMN-->Crave was just a straight rebranding. It just isn't navigationally helpful to have four categories here, especially since not everything is actually subcategorized correctly. (There are "HBO" shows still in the TMN/MC cats instead of the HBO subcat, and TMN/MC shows that are being catted only as TMN and not as MC.) To be fair, separate TMN and MC categories seemed logical and reasonable when they were first created, back when TMN and MC were separate things, but given the current situation keeping four categories isn't effectively serving readers anymore.
Bearcat (
talk)
19:48, 21 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge MC & TNN/Neutral on HBO The first two make total sense, especially since they weren't substantively different prior even prior to the merger. The articles in the HBO Canada are split between just saying HBO and mentioning the other two networks which might be an editing issue so I'm less sure but certainly not opposed. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
01:58, 29 December 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Baseball venues in North Texas
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Merge According to our article on
North Texas, there are about 12 counties that are only sometimes included in this region. I think there's also a similar natural region of Texas which doesn't have an article yet. –
LaundryPizza03 (
dc̄)
12:24, 29 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Doubtful -- We should upmerge, rather than delete. However there are four sibling categories for south, West, central and east Texas. If this is removed they should also go; other wise the category structure will be inconsistent.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:45, 1 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge as the first step. I think "Baseball venues" should be renamed to "Dedicated baseball stadiums" or something, because I wouldn't be surprised if baseball has been played at many non-dedicated venues which would turn this into a
WP:PERFCAT.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
20:47, 4 January 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:American women novelists of Indian descent
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Nominator's rationale I am very hesitant to bring this up at all since the existence of the parent category
Category:American women novelists caused some people to engage in very egregious and unfounded character assasinations against me, some of which were carried out in the main stream media. However, despite the attempts to use the media to broadcast one view of categorization and engage in vote recruiting, the category survived this attack on it. That said, we do not have
Category:African-American women novelists which would based on ethnic cohesion, historical ethnic size and ethnic uniquness be the most likely sub-cat to create (while Hispanics and Latinos outnumber African-Americans, Hispanics and Latinos are overall a less clearly unified group, but there are complicating issues, and for the vast majority of US history, African-Americans far outnumbered Hispanics and Latinos). This is actually on the order of a 4 part unifier. Even the parent category
Category:American women novelists is hard pressed to justify on OCERGS rules, but since we subdivided
Category:American novelists by century, we can be sure that all articles in
Category:American women novelists can easily be placed in the appropriate by century sub-cat, thus following ERGS categorization rules. With this being the only sub-cat of
Category:American women novelists except one category that groups one said novelists works, there is no real alternate way to split, and so it goes against the ERGS rules highly discouraging lowest rung category creation. Since we do have the parent
Category:American women writers of Indian descent we will not loose much in the upmerge.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
19:39, 28 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge as a trivial intersection between occupation and descent. It is not trivial when they write about India but we have other categories for that.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
08:55, 29 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment This is supposed to be a non-diffucsing sub-cat of
Category:American novelists of Indian descent, yet it is somehow bigger than the category it is not supposed to diffuse out of. This is impossible if we follow non-diffusing rules, so the current category in practice is leading to not following non-diffusing rules and in practice sits as a total violation of ERGS rules. When the system creates in practice something in violation of what are rules suggest, out rules are not working.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
14:46, 29 December 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:International Triathlon Union world championships
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Mayors of places in France
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Merge for Now All of these places likely had more than five mayors but most would be non-notable. No objection to recreating any if they exceed expectations and get to 5+ articles. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
02:05, 29 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom. Just a critical question:Category:People from Annecy that means usually: Born in Annecy -> not exactly what is reqired for mayors who rarely ever make their election in their birth cities/towns. How to solve the problem? An error of mine? --
Just N. (
talk)
22:32, 2 January 2021 (UTC)reply
from is not limited to birth, it may refer to any place a person has lived in for a considerable amount of time, especially while being notable.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
02:18, 3 January 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:San Marino and Rimini's Coast motorcycle Grand Prix
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Category:Dunkin' Brands
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Category:Activists who committed suicide
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable
WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.
Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
Comment I sampled several articles. What seemed more striking was not occupation so much as the circumstances of the suicide: (1) a reaction to being spurned by a lover (2) despair being a Jew trapped in Vichy France (3) PTSD (4) etc. Occupation is not significant; and I am not sure what makes some of them activists anyway.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:57, 1 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete "activists" (which our article defines as basically anyone who has lived past toddler age) is a BS category to begin with and nothing links "activists" with suicide.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
20:52, 4 January 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Doctors who committed suicide
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable
WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.
Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
Comment: Although
physicians are apparently twice as likely to end their lives by suicide, that is actively discouraged by the profession. Moreover, the problem isn't mainly with doctors themselves, it is the resident trainees where suicide is one of the leading causes of death. That's a reflection of how badly they are treated, not a professional qualification. We don't have a category for residents, as they aren't likely to be notable. If they commit suicide, they are very unlikely to become notable.
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Category:Jurists who committed suicide
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable
WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.
Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
Delete -- I sampled several articles. One was a judge who killed himself rather than face sexual abuse allegations. The others seemed to have killed themselves preferring a quick death to a chronic incurable illness. No link to occupation.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
18:02, 1 January 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Philosophers who committed suicide
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable
WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.
Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
This is an unclear counter proposal. If the category is kept, there is nothing to purge. E.g. while Charles Blount (deist) killed himself when rejected in love, he was still a philosopher.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
20:39, 1 January 2021 (UTC)reply
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Writers who committed suicide
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable
WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.
Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
Oh for goodness sake. Journalists was also under the main "by occupation" category. So I've removed it from there, and I've nominated all suicide by writer by sex by country quadruple-intersection subcategories (below). If folks want to keep Writers by sex, then Journalists can be merged there. William Allen Simpson (
talk)
10:16, 28 December 2020 (UTC)reply
@
William Allen Simpson: sorry to bother you again. Do you intend to propose deleting the intersection categories only, but not the top category of Writers who committed suicide? If that is the case, the proposal should be a merge rather than a deletion. Or if you do intend to propose deleting the top category as well, you need to expand your rationale.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
12:42, 28 December 2020 (UTC)reply
If all of these are approved, there will be no need to nominate the parent
Category:Writers who committed suicide. It will be deleted as empty. Until we've dealt with the constituent categories, we don't know whether we'll be allowed to delete the parent. That's the problem with doing things in batches over time. Also the problem with triple and quadruple intersection categories. Easy to create. Extremely time-consuming and difficult to delete. They should be outlawed entirely everywhere. William Allen Simpson (
talk)
14:37, 28 December 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Writers who committed suicide by nationality
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial triple-intersection. These must be inter-sex writers who are not already categorized as men or women. Otherwise, who in their right mind would categorize the same subcategories in a third way?
Comment — 51 not tagged, because they will be emptied.
Comment, this category will become empty when the categories in the two nominations below are deleted. So there is no need for a separate discussion about this category.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
17:19, 28 December 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Male writers who committed suicide
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A late correction: for now they should be merged to
Category:Male suicides because there is no discussion yet about whether or not gendered suïcide categories are kept. I guess that that discussion will start too within the next week. This overrules my previous delete vote but my earlier comment about Anciens Romans remains valid.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
09:23, 30 December 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Women writers who committed suicide
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A late correction: for now they should be merged to
Category:Female suicides because there is no discussion yet about whether or not gendered suïcide categories are kept. I guess that that discussion will start too within the next week. This overrules my previous delete vote.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
09:26, 30 December 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Aviators who committed suicide
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable
WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.
Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
Comment: Most subcategories were eliminated by previous CfD. Remaining subcategories are not nominated, as they are both already in other suicide subcategories.
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Category:Criminals who committed suicide
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Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable
WP:DEFINING link between being a criminal and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the criminality and the suicide, making the link even weaker. Also, these would not be those who were incarcerated, as those already exist separately:
Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their history and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
Comment: is [criminal | murderer | serial killer | Nazi collaborator] actually an occupation? How do you get paid for it? Why are Nazi collaborators criminals, but Nazis are not?
Purge -- This is NOT a trivial intersection. Cases where a criminal killed themselves while in custody or to avoid arrest are certainly notable. These are people who followed a course of action which had criminal consequences that they were not willing to face and see through. The purged category might be
Category:People who committed suicide to avoid prosecution. The headnote would probably need to explain that it covered people who were suspected of serious crime, but had not been convicted. Since the person is dead, I do not think there could be a libel suit. This would apply to the judge I noted under the jurists category.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
18:17, 1 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete this is a trivial intersection. Cases where someone accused of a crime committed suicide to avoid arrest or related reasons should not be categorized because they were not conviced and we should not assume the role of judge on people.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
19:13, 14 January 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Recipients of the Silver Wolf Award (The Scout Association)
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Several Scouting groups have "Silver Wolf" awards and
this one is from
The Scout Association in the UK. There are really two categories of winners here:
1: British Scouting people who are generally categorized in other scouting categories like
Garth Morrison and
Garth Morrison along with some colonial representation like
Charles Hoadley
The first group is generally well categorized in other Scouting categories and mentions the award in passing. For international recipients, the
Bronze Wolf Award and
Silver Fish Award are considered the top international award. Neither group seems defined by this award. There wasn't a complete list so I created one
right here in the main article. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:04, 28 December 2020 (UTC)reply
OK to DeleteThanks for the ping. I was too late to comment on the one deletion that was in error (Eagle) which is a widely noted objectively earned level, not an award. This case is (just) an award. North8000 (
talk)
12:31, 28 December 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Ten Outstanding Young Persons of the World
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The
Ten Outstanding Young Persons of the World an award from the
Junior Chamber International for promising young people. But Wikipedia doesn't have articles on promising young people. By the time these people accomplish something else and have a Wikipedia article created, this award usually gets a passing reference. I'm not even sure if this was the intent of the category though because it only has the award article, a list and one winner. The current contents are already listified
here in a separate list article for any reader interested in the topic. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:04, 28 December 2020 (UTC)reply
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