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talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Pollinator decline pesticides
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Delete subjective category; by whom was something implicated and why would that be defining. If this is kept, we ought to re-think the whole disease tree to figure out which
Humor is out of what rather than ascribe diseases to things we cannot see. :P
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
17:36, 27 March 2020 (UTC)reply
Who is doing the accusing and when? This, like all categories, is meant to be permanent, so even assuming we can agree on whose accusation merits inclusion, once the accusation is refuted (assuming it is retracted by all accusers), the chemical remains in this category.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
19:26, 6 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Order of Stara Planina
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Less than n pages
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Support - this does seem to be correct. 'Fewer' appears to apply when integers are involved, as they are here; there cannot be 99.5 pages.
Oculi (
talk)
08:45, 3 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose as creator. Yes,
Opera hat, you are correct about the grammar. I goofed when creating these. But (big "but") ... these are not reader-facing categories. They are tracking categories used for a maintenance task, i.e. identifying categories where {{Category TOC}} should be replaced with {{CatAutoTOC}}. That task is underway. And as tracking categories, they are hidden from ordinary readers, and even from editors unless they have gone to
Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering and enabled "show hidden categories". So they are visible to only a tiny minority of users, and of interest only to a tiny minority of that tiny minority: those who are engaged in the cleanup, which I think is only me. There is little or no benefit to anyone in polishing the labelling of maintenance tools. The reason I didn't rename these categories myself when I spotted my grammatical error (the day after creating the fist one) is that if I edited the templates to fix the grammar, it would take up to a week for the changes to propagate ... thereby disrupting the cleanup work for which they were created. So that would be self-defeating. So,
Opera hat,
Grutness, and
Captainllama ... please would you all just leave these be, so that I can continue with my work? Or at the very least hold off any renaming of the toolbox until the toolbox is no longer in use? That will be when the categories are empty, in a few weeks. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
15:02, 3 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Update. I have restructured the tracking categories, and these categories are no longer in use. I have tagged them for speedy deletion as soon as they are, which shoukd be in a day or two, when the templates finish purging.
The new categories all avoid that grammatical faux-pas, and are listed here:
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Hospitals in Hudson County, New Jersey
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: 'no consensus. As a general point about conduct of CFD, I find no fault in the creation of well-populated siblings during the discussion, but it should be accepted that such new categories could be brought into the action arising if there is a consensus to rename/merge/delete. –
FayenaticLondon07:13, 21 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary category since list of hospitals is not split by county in parent Category:Hospitals in New Jersey. I don't see why only Hudson County had entries.
Tinton5 (
talk)
02:15, 3 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Two comments, some hospitals in US state categories are diffused by county, others are not, it has not been done consistently. Second, I suppose the proposal is to merge rather than to delete.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:59, 3 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Support - upmerge to parents. This was created in 2014, so there is clearly no enthusiasm for a 'by county' scheme for New Jersey.
Oculi (
talk)
08:41, 3 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Agreed. Djflem created the one under discussion and supplied no siblings for 6 years. Springing into action now is too late.
Oculi (
talk)
11:00, 3 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose Categories by county exist for Bergen (with 9 entries), Essex (7), Hudson (10), Middlesex (6) and Monmouth (6), with the potential to create several more such well-populated county categories. If the objection is that "there is clearly no enthusiasm for a 'by county' scheme for New Jersey" then we have seen that enthusiasm. If the issue is that the parent hadn't been split by county, why should anyone "request that you hold off until we reach a consensus here" if creating the other county categories addresses the issue raised in the nomination?
Alansohn (
talk)
14:48, 6 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment I don't have an opinion on categories for these counties with large populations. I do want to say out loud though that there is no consensus that every county in NJ should have a category as "part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme" exception under
WP:SMALLCAT.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
11:15, 7 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Support deletion: It would be more useful to modify the
List of hospitals in New Jersey page to create the list of hospitals in a table with city and county columns. This method is supported by the
Wikipedia:WikiProject Hospitals methodology, i.e. first start with a list of all hospitals with city, county, name, and references; then, link to notable hospitals.
G. Moore13:27, 8 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment:
Wikipedia:NOTDUP clearly states that "it is neither improper nor uncommon to simultaneously have a category, a list, and a navigation template which all cover the same topic. These systems of organizing information are considered to be complementary... (not inappropriately duplicative. Furthermore, arguing that a category duplicates a list (or vice versa) at a deletion discussion is not a valid reason for deletion and
should be avoided".) In other words, the suggestion to clean up and organize the list is great, but not a reason to delete categories.
Djflem (
talk)
14:58, 9 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment -- I understand the population of US counties to vary greatly. The common policy is to delete (or rather upmerge) categories with less than 5 members. That should be applied. All those NJ county categories created so far meet that criterion, but that does not mean we should allow a category for a county with 1 or two hospitals.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:06, 12 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Slovenian Hockey Hall of Fame inductees
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Delete per OCAWARD. We have kept hall of fame categories only where there is a physical museum. Probably no need to listify as main article had a list.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:40, 5 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:National High School Hall of Fame inductees
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The American
National High School Hall of Fame primarily recognizes high school athletes, but also high school coaches. Not a single one of these athletes have a Wikipedia article because of their high school career; rather these athletes became notable later because of success in college, Olympic or professional sports. Since their high school athletic career was not defining, it's hard to imagine an award they received for it is. (The high school coaches generally are notable as high school coaches but are already well categorized under
Category:High school athletic coaches in the United States.) The contents of the category are already listified
here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:02, 3 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete per OCAWARD. We have kept hall of fame categories only where there is a physical museum. Probably no need to listify as main article had a list.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:41, 5 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Pollinator decline pesticides
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Delete subjective category; by whom was something implicated and why would that be defining. If this is kept, we ought to re-think the whole disease tree to figure out which
Humor is out of what rather than ascribe diseases to things we cannot see. :P
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
17:36, 27 March 2020 (UTC)reply
Who is doing the accusing and when? This, like all categories, is meant to be permanent, so even assuming we can agree on whose accusation merits inclusion, once the accusation is refuted (assuming it is retracted by all accusers), the chemical remains in this category.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
19:26, 6 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Order of Stara Planina
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Less than n pages
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Support - this does seem to be correct. 'Fewer' appears to apply when integers are involved, as they are here; there cannot be 99.5 pages.
Oculi (
talk)
08:45, 3 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose as creator. Yes,
Opera hat, you are correct about the grammar. I goofed when creating these. But (big "but") ... these are not reader-facing categories. They are tracking categories used for a maintenance task, i.e. identifying categories where {{Category TOC}} should be replaced with {{CatAutoTOC}}. That task is underway. And as tracking categories, they are hidden from ordinary readers, and even from editors unless they have gone to
Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering and enabled "show hidden categories". So they are visible to only a tiny minority of users, and of interest only to a tiny minority of that tiny minority: those who are engaged in the cleanup, which I think is only me. There is little or no benefit to anyone in polishing the labelling of maintenance tools. The reason I didn't rename these categories myself when I spotted my grammatical error (the day after creating the fist one) is that if I edited the templates to fix the grammar, it would take up to a week for the changes to propagate ... thereby disrupting the cleanup work for which they were created. So that would be self-defeating. So,
Opera hat,
Grutness, and
Captainllama ... please would you all just leave these be, so that I can continue with my work? Or at the very least hold off any renaming of the toolbox until the toolbox is no longer in use? That will be when the categories are empty, in a few weeks. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
15:02, 3 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Update. I have restructured the tracking categories, and these categories are no longer in use. I have tagged them for speedy deletion as soon as they are, which shoukd be in a day or two, when the templates finish purging.
The new categories all avoid that grammatical faux-pas, and are listed here:
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Hospitals in Hudson County, New Jersey
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: 'no consensus. As a general point about conduct of CFD, I find no fault in the creation of well-populated siblings during the discussion, but it should be accepted that such new categories could be brought into the action arising if there is a consensus to rename/merge/delete. –
FayenaticLondon07:13, 21 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary category since list of hospitals is not split by county in parent Category:Hospitals in New Jersey. I don't see why only Hudson County had entries.
Tinton5 (
talk)
02:15, 3 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Two comments, some hospitals in US state categories are diffused by county, others are not, it has not been done consistently. Second, I suppose the proposal is to merge rather than to delete.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:59, 3 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Support - upmerge to parents. This was created in 2014, so there is clearly no enthusiasm for a 'by county' scheme for New Jersey.
Oculi (
talk)
08:41, 3 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Agreed. Djflem created the one under discussion and supplied no siblings for 6 years. Springing into action now is too late.
Oculi (
talk)
11:00, 3 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose Categories by county exist for Bergen (with 9 entries), Essex (7), Hudson (10), Middlesex (6) and Monmouth (6), with the potential to create several more such well-populated county categories. If the objection is that "there is clearly no enthusiasm for a 'by county' scheme for New Jersey" then we have seen that enthusiasm. If the issue is that the parent hadn't been split by county, why should anyone "request that you hold off until we reach a consensus here" if creating the other county categories addresses the issue raised in the nomination?
Alansohn (
talk)
14:48, 6 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment I don't have an opinion on categories for these counties with large populations. I do want to say out loud though that there is no consensus that every county in NJ should have a category as "part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme" exception under
WP:SMALLCAT.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
11:15, 7 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Support deletion: It would be more useful to modify the
List of hospitals in New Jersey page to create the list of hospitals in a table with city and county columns. This method is supported by the
Wikipedia:WikiProject Hospitals methodology, i.e. first start with a list of all hospitals with city, county, name, and references; then, link to notable hospitals.
G. Moore13:27, 8 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment:
Wikipedia:NOTDUP clearly states that "it is neither improper nor uncommon to simultaneously have a category, a list, and a navigation template which all cover the same topic. These systems of organizing information are considered to be complementary... (not inappropriately duplicative. Furthermore, arguing that a category duplicates a list (or vice versa) at a deletion discussion is not a valid reason for deletion and
should be avoided".) In other words, the suggestion to clean up and organize the list is great, but not a reason to delete categories.
Djflem (
talk)
14:58, 9 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment -- I understand the population of US counties to vary greatly. The common policy is to delete (or rather upmerge) categories with less than 5 members. That should be applied. All those NJ county categories created so far meet that criterion, but that does not mean we should allow a category for a county with 1 or two hospitals.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:06, 12 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Slovenian Hockey Hall of Fame inductees
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Delete per OCAWARD. We have kept hall of fame categories only where there is a physical museum. Probably no need to listify as main article had a list.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:40, 5 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:National High School Hall of Fame inductees
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The American
National High School Hall of Fame primarily recognizes high school athletes, but also high school coaches. Not a single one of these athletes have a Wikipedia article because of their high school career; rather these athletes became notable later because of success in college, Olympic or professional sports. Since their high school athletic career was not defining, it's hard to imagine an award they received for it is. (The high school coaches generally are notable as high school coaches but are already well categorized under
Category:High school athletic coaches in the United States.) The contents of the category are already listified
here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:02, 3 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete per OCAWARD. We have kept hall of fame categories only where there is a physical museum. Probably no need to listify as main article had a list.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:41, 5 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.