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Support -- This is far too small a denomination to need multiple categories. In the third case, I would suggest that the target for subject and object should be merge to
Category:Georgian Catholic priests. I would suggest that in this case "(country)" is not needed since the US State will be "Catholic priests from Georgia (state)".
Peterkingiron (
talk)
14:18, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose - there is a well-established category tree for Eastern Catholicism, which is significantly different from Latin Catholicism to be organized in specific categories even when the numbers are small, as is the case with Georgia. Especially, a renaming or merge to anything that uses Roman Catholic would be erroneous, as Eastern Catholics, (in this case Greek-Catholics) are not Roman Catholics and cannot be called that. I'm open to find a way to rationalize these categories a bit though, maybe using terms like "Greek Catholics" which are more precise, and along with
Category:Georgian Byzantine-Rite Catholics which is currently nominated for
speedy renaming to something different, all after a
RM which failed to find consensus.
Place Clichy (
talk)
01:50, 23 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Clarification please The nom has agreed to a number of suggestions. Are these incorporated into the current nomination? If not, what is the current state of the proposal?
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
09:08, 23 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Palauan male weightlifters
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Weak keep per Oculi. Most Palauan sports categories are similar - it's a small place, but sport by nation is a recognised tree that allow for small cat is cases like this.
Grutness...wha?04:46, 26 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Thiruvalla area
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The result of the discussion was:rename to
Category:Villages in Thiruvalla taluk. There's a sense in the discussion that taluk-level categorization may be useful in this situation, which is not unheard of (although as a side note the cat names regarding taluks lack standardization and probably merit further discussion). bibliomaniac1506:03, 10 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Don't Merge Indian districts are not like city districts of Europe. They are vast areas that includes several millions of people and half a dozen thickly populated towns alongwith with numerous villages. Taluk level categorization is essential in the Indian scenario. --
Prof TPMS (
talk)
08:19, 7 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Want to see more discussion comparing the merits of merging to either the main nom or the alt nom.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac1517:33, 25 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's rationale:rename to use less stigmatising language (i.e., not committed). Note this actually applies to all subcats within
Category:Suicides by occupation but I don't know/see a way to address that so I thought I'd try by kicking off the discussion with one here. The use of the term "committed" is explicitly discouraged by groups working with suicides: example links to explicit advice to media here: (UK)
Samaritans, (US)
suicide.org &
NAMIBeholderstories (
talk)
16:52, 25 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Yes I agree (it's what it says in my comment up there). I don't think I have the wikichops to change all the subcats, was hoping a more expert editor might suggest the correct approach.
Beholderstories (
talk)
20:19, 25 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose The category tree uses "commited" because that is the common expression in English. Recent attempts at changing English to reflect modern sensibilities have not had success.
Dimadick (
talk)
21:44, 25 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Citation please? Because I think you're mistaken: e.g. (i) Since 2015 the Associated Press style guide has recommended not using the term "committed suicide" (direct quotes excepted, of course). (ii) coarse Google ngram analysis
die by suicide (looks like a 300% increase since the 1970s) compared with
commit suicide (peaked in 2000, now in decline). And
Wikipedia's style guide has plenty examples of preferring good English over common English. Uh... wait... so maybe that's where I should be doing this, not in the category CfD?
Beholderstories (
talk)
14:59, 26 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Nabobs from Devon
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Upmerge -- For information "nabob" is an anglicisation of
nawab and refers to people who became fabulously rich in the East India trade, usually through dealings in their own names, while officers of Honourable East India Company in India. The degree of riches necessary is probably a subjective issue.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:07, 25 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Updated to reflect that the articles have already been manually placed in appropriate cats.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
Propose retain Category:British East India Company people will include people who did not use their positions to make huge fortunes, for example clerks living modest lifestyles, thus not Nabobs. WP has an article on
Nabob: "a conspicuously wealthy man deriving his fortune in the east, especially in India during the 18th century with the privately held East India Company" - often through personal entrepreneurship. I don't think we need a £sd wealth test to define membership of the category. If you want I will create a parent category Category:Nabobs from England, a member of Category:British East India Company people. Note that we already have a category Category:English billionaires, fairly vague, but possibly the modern equivalent of Category:Nabobs from England.
Lobsterthermidor (
talk)
18:42, 4 May 2020 (UTC)reply
That would require a definition of a Nabob. And I doubt if we have many articles about humble clerks. But regardless of such a proposal there are not enough articles about British East India Company people to divide them by county.
Rathfelder (
talk)
21:16, 5 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Catholic priests of Elizabethan Ireland
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Support per nom. Fivefold intersections? Madness. Plus not all parts of Ireland were under the control of the Crown, so priests in Ulster might have regarded themselves as Irish, not Elizabethan Irish.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
11:46, 28 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Illegitimate children of Bosnian monarchs
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Delete -- This is unnecessary since both became kings themselves. I wonder if the illegitimacy is not the result of applying a stricter view of marriage than was in vogue in Bosnia at the time.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:14, 25 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Illegitimate children of Belgian monarchs
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Category:Giro d'Italia and Tour de France winners in the same years
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Category:Prix d'Europe winners
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Each year, the
Prix d'Europe scholarship sends 1 or 2 students from Quebec to study music in Europe. Given the later prominence of many of these musicians, this investment appears to be money well spent for the province! Within the articles though, it doesn't seem defining and usually gets a passing reference in the education section. And these articles are generally already in the alumni category for whichever conservatory/college this scholarship paid for. The contents are already listified
here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:52, 25 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Support -- This is far too small a denomination to need multiple categories. In the third case, I would suggest that the target for subject and object should be merge to
Category:Georgian Catholic priests. I would suggest that in this case "(country)" is not needed since the US State will be "Catholic priests from Georgia (state)".
Peterkingiron (
talk)
14:18, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose - there is a well-established category tree for Eastern Catholicism, which is significantly different from Latin Catholicism to be organized in specific categories even when the numbers are small, as is the case with Georgia. Especially, a renaming or merge to anything that uses Roman Catholic would be erroneous, as Eastern Catholics, (in this case Greek-Catholics) are not Roman Catholics and cannot be called that. I'm open to find a way to rationalize these categories a bit though, maybe using terms like "Greek Catholics" which are more precise, and along with
Category:Georgian Byzantine-Rite Catholics which is currently nominated for
speedy renaming to something different, all after a
RM which failed to find consensus.
Place Clichy (
talk)
01:50, 23 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Clarification please The nom has agreed to a number of suggestions. Are these incorporated into the current nomination? If not, what is the current state of the proposal?
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
09:08, 23 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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talk page or in a
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Category:Palauan male weightlifters
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Weak keep per Oculi. Most Palauan sports categories are similar - it's a small place, but sport by nation is a recognised tree that allow for small cat is cases like this.
Grutness...wha?04:46, 26 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Thiruvalla area
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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The result of the discussion was:rename to
Category:Villages in Thiruvalla taluk. There's a sense in the discussion that taluk-level categorization may be useful in this situation, which is not unheard of (although as a side note the cat names regarding taluks lack standardization and probably merit further discussion). bibliomaniac1506:03, 10 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Don't Merge Indian districts are not like city districts of Europe. They are vast areas that includes several millions of people and half a dozen thickly populated towns alongwith with numerous villages. Taluk level categorization is essential in the Indian scenario. --
Prof TPMS (
talk)
08:19, 7 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Want to see more discussion comparing the merits of merging to either the main nom or the alt nom.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac1517:33, 25 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:rename to use less stigmatising language (i.e., not committed). Note this actually applies to all subcats within
Category:Suicides by occupation but I don't know/see a way to address that so I thought I'd try by kicking off the discussion with one here. The use of the term "committed" is explicitly discouraged by groups working with suicides: example links to explicit advice to media here: (UK)
Samaritans, (US)
suicide.org &
NAMIBeholderstories (
talk)
16:52, 25 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Yes I agree (it's what it says in my comment up there). I don't think I have the wikichops to change all the subcats, was hoping a more expert editor might suggest the correct approach.
Beholderstories (
talk)
20:19, 25 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose The category tree uses "commited" because that is the common expression in English. Recent attempts at changing English to reflect modern sensibilities have not had success.
Dimadick (
talk)
21:44, 25 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Citation please? Because I think you're mistaken: e.g. (i) Since 2015 the Associated Press style guide has recommended not using the term "committed suicide" (direct quotes excepted, of course). (ii) coarse Google ngram analysis
die by suicide (looks like a 300% increase since the 1970s) compared with
commit suicide (peaked in 2000, now in decline). And
Wikipedia's style guide has plenty examples of preferring good English over common English. Uh... wait... so maybe that's where I should be doing this, not in the category CfD?
Beholderstories (
talk)
14:59, 26 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Nabobs from Devon
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Upmerge -- For information "nabob" is an anglicisation of
nawab and refers to people who became fabulously rich in the East India trade, usually through dealings in their own names, while officers of Honourable East India Company in India. The degree of riches necessary is probably a subjective issue.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:07, 25 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Updated to reflect that the articles have already been manually placed in appropriate cats.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
Propose retain Category:British East India Company people will include people who did not use their positions to make huge fortunes, for example clerks living modest lifestyles, thus not Nabobs. WP has an article on
Nabob: "a conspicuously wealthy man deriving his fortune in the east, especially in India during the 18th century with the privately held East India Company" - often through personal entrepreneurship. I don't think we need a £sd wealth test to define membership of the category. If you want I will create a parent category Category:Nabobs from England, a member of Category:British East India Company people. Note that we already have a category Category:English billionaires, fairly vague, but possibly the modern equivalent of Category:Nabobs from England.
Lobsterthermidor (
talk)
18:42, 4 May 2020 (UTC)reply
That would require a definition of a Nabob. And I doubt if we have many articles about humble clerks. But regardless of such a proposal there are not enough articles about British East India Company people to divide them by county.
Rathfelder (
talk)
21:16, 5 May 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Catholic priests of Elizabethan Ireland
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Support per nom. Fivefold intersections? Madness. Plus not all parts of Ireland were under the control of the Crown, so priests in Ulster might have regarded themselves as Irish, not Elizabethan Irish.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
11:46, 28 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Illegitimate children of Bosnian monarchs
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Delete -- This is unnecessary since both became kings themselves. I wonder if the illegitimacy is not the result of applying a stricter view of marriage than was in vogue in Bosnia at the time.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:14, 25 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Illegitimate children of Belgian monarchs
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Category:Giro d'Italia and Tour de France winners in the same years
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Category:Prix d'Europe winners
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Each year, the
Prix d'Europe scholarship sends 1 or 2 students from Quebec to study music in Europe. Given the later prominence of many of these musicians, this investment appears to be money well spent for the province! Within the articles though, it doesn't seem defining and usually gets a passing reference in the education section. And these articles are generally already in the alumni category for whichever conservatory/college this scholarship paid for. The contents are already listified
here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:52, 25 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.