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That would be an interesting discussion.
Pornographic film actor is an article in its own right and I think it would probably be kept but feel free to do so. In the meantime, I think we should discuss this particular category.--
User:Namiba11:37, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Support Unless a large majority of the other state categories have over 5 articles so we're just completing a set, I don't accept this as part of a "large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme" and it needs to aid navigation on it's own. It doesn't. No objection to a broader nom but this is the one before us here.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
17:18, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Mild support, but would prefer a nomination for the whole tree. It is likely that actors practice their act in several states, and state of birth is probably irrelevant (unless their is a Mainer fetish, you never know).
Place Clichy (
talk)
19:56, 21 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:American pornographic film actors of Vietnamese descent
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Category:American pornographic film actors of Thai descent
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Category:Spies in Elizabethan Ireland
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Nominator's rationale:delete, very narrow category and it does not really fit its only member, who - as the article poetically says - "moved through the world of international intrigue" rather than that he was based in Ireland.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
20:11, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Saved by the Bell (season 2) episodes
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Category:Musicians by geography
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Greek Catholics
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Nominator's rationale: merge/rename, in Russia and Romania there is no distinction between Greek Catholics (in the above sense) and Eastern Catholics but at en.wp we happen to use
Eastern Catholic Churches and
Category:Eastern Catholics. "Greek Catholics" is confusing since it may just as well mean Catholics of Greek nationality, see for example
Category:Greek Catholics. Note: earlier these categories were nominated at CFDS by
User:Elizium23 simply in order to get the dash replaced by a space in the category names.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
11:36, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Strong oppose. Greek Catholics are a very distinct faith among the larger
Eastern Catholic Churches (see this article for details). They are distinct in that they practice the Greek Rite (also called
Byzantine Rite or Constantinopolitan Rite), which is the same as the
Eastern Orthodox Churches, with whom they often share historical links. What they have in common with other Eastern Catholics, such as
Maronites or Armenian Catholics, is that they all share
full communion and recognize the overall authority of the Pope. The name indeed has nothing to do with the country of Greece. Replacing this term by Eastern Catholic amounts to a loss of information. It would be similar to replacing all occurrences of 'Baptists', 'Methodists' and 'Pentecostal' by just 'Protestant' because you cannot tell the difference between them.
Place Clichy (
talk)
19:56, 21 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose: category is only about a portion of the Eastern-Catholic, the ones of Byzantine (Greek) heritage. For examples Armenian Catholics (present in Russia) are Eastern Catholics but not Greek Catholic.
A ntv (
talk)
20:14, 23 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Primates of the Romanian Church United with Rome, Greek-Catholic
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Technically the name of the category should be: Category:Bishops, Archbishops and Metropolitans, Mayor Archbishop of Făgăraș and Alba Iulia (and also the article
List of bishops of Făgăraș and Alba Iulia should be named in the same way). That because during the centuries the bishops of this town obtained to change their title more times because they were the heads of the Greek-Catholic Romanian Church. The title Category:Primates of the Romanian Greek Catholic Church is surely better, less technical but more readable for the users, and with more information. Note also that this Categoly belong to Category
Category:Eastern Catholic primates, which lists all the heads of the Eastern Catholic Churches. For this reason it is better to leave the name Primates (or at least Leaders) into the name of this Category.
A ntv (
talk)
14:59, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
ALT 1 or ALT 2 rename to PeterK's suggestion above or to
Category:Primates of the Romanian Eastern Catholic Church per proposal in the Catholics proposal above this one. Let the nuances be spelled out in the head note. Confession I've been renaming articles and doing some grammar tidy up on the Romanian Greek Catholic articles. They seem to have a liking for ponderous titles in Romanian that don't read well in English.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
09:28, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Yes. Perhaps I was a bit hasty with my recent edits on the articles. Best to get consensus on whether we like "Greek Catholic" or "Greek-Catholic" or "Byzantine". Procedural close on this one meantime?
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
13:01, 21 April 2020 (UTC)reply
I would strongly discourage the use of 'Eastern Catholic' as a replacement for 'Greek Catholic'. These are just not the same thing, just like 'Baptist' and 'Protestant'. All Greek Catholics are Eastern Catholics, but not all Eastern Catholics are Greek Catholics: the Maronites, Chaldeans, Armenian Catholics, Coptic Catholics etc. are not.
Place Clichy (
talk)
19:56, 21 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Deaths from the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic
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Most of the films and categories in this category are about a single person. However, there are some entries that are only loosely based on real people, e.g. Casque d'Or, Dying to Survive, maybe Karthavyam, Pad Man, Panchagni, so perhaps all it really needs is a thorough cleanup and explicit inclusion criteria. I'm going to start transferring entries to the other categories, then we'll see what's left.
Clarityfiend (
talk)
08:39, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Eurovision Song Contest entrants of country
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Nominator's rationale: Stemming from previous conversations about the issues with this existing naming convention, I am seeking to rename these so that the entrants aren't assigned a nationality. Each country in the contest can choose whoever they want to represent them. The point of these categories is simply to group entrants who have represented a specific country, not to group people of a specific national background. The category name is thus misleading. About 10 years ago, other categories that faced this issue were renamed in this same fashion. This appears to be the only one on my radar that was missed. Please see
here for the discussion that lead to fixing the "song" category and also the larger discussion
here that originally got us thinking.
Grk1011 (
talk)
14:34, 8 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. Especially true for countries whose demonym is a sensitive issue or not necessarily a synonym for the nationality, such as British and Irish.
dummelaksen (
talk)
14:57, 8 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Suppert with one change: "Eurovision Song Contest entrants of Macedonia" should be "Eurovision Song Contest entrants of North Macedonia" to reflect the country's name as of February 2019.
IceWelder [
✉]
15:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The proposal is "of" (country represented). The existing wording I want to change assigns the nationality. Why do you prefer "for" instead?
Grk1011 (
talk)
14:23, 16 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Pleas address Marcocapelle's question and Peterkingiron's suggestion to delete instead.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —
JJMC89 (
T·C)
06:58, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
"representing" is clearly better than "from" since it is more accurate and the word is often used in the articles. Also, from may suggest that they are physically from a certain country, which is not always the case.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
11:52, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment -- I suggested "for" as referring to country represented. "of" might imply nationality, as would "from". I accept the argument re PERFCAT, though some are established performers for whom it would technically apply.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
15:43, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
I agree that "for" is about equivalent and therefore just as good as "representing" (or maybe it is even better simply because it is shorter).
Marcocapelle (
talk)
18:53, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Digital Media Company
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Category:Liberty Award winners
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English Wikipedia doesn't have a main article on this journalism award but German Wikipedia does
here and it doesn't have a category. (
Liberty Award is a redirect to a different Dutch award.) There's only one article (
Andreas Landwehr) so there's nothing to listify. I can't definitively say that this award is non-defining but there is nothing in English Wikipedia that even hints it might be. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:54, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:ICT Awards
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That would be an interesting discussion.
Pornographic film actor is an article in its own right and I think it would probably be kept but feel free to do so. In the meantime, I think we should discuss this particular category.--
User:Namiba11:37, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Support Unless a large majority of the other state categories have over 5 articles so we're just completing a set, I don't accept this as part of a "large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme" and it needs to aid navigation on it's own. It doesn't. No objection to a broader nom but this is the one before us here.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
17:18, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Mild support, but would prefer a nomination for the whole tree. It is likely that actors practice their act in several states, and state of birth is probably irrelevant (unless their is a Mainer fetish, you never know).
Place Clichy (
talk)
19:56, 21 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:American pornographic film actors of Vietnamese descent
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Category:American pornographic film actors of Thai descent
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Category:Spies in Elizabethan Ireland
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Nominator's rationale:delete, very narrow category and it does not really fit its only member, who - as the article poetically says - "moved through the world of international intrigue" rather than that he was based in Ireland.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
20:11, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Saved by the Bell (season 2) episodes
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Category:Musicians by geography
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Greek Catholics
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: merge/rename, in Russia and Romania there is no distinction between Greek Catholics (in the above sense) and Eastern Catholics but at en.wp we happen to use
Eastern Catholic Churches and
Category:Eastern Catholics. "Greek Catholics" is confusing since it may just as well mean Catholics of Greek nationality, see for example
Category:Greek Catholics. Note: earlier these categories were nominated at CFDS by
User:Elizium23 simply in order to get the dash replaced by a space in the category names.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
11:36, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Strong oppose. Greek Catholics are a very distinct faith among the larger
Eastern Catholic Churches (see this article for details). They are distinct in that they practice the Greek Rite (also called
Byzantine Rite or Constantinopolitan Rite), which is the same as the
Eastern Orthodox Churches, with whom they often share historical links. What they have in common with other Eastern Catholics, such as
Maronites or Armenian Catholics, is that they all share
full communion and recognize the overall authority of the Pope. The name indeed has nothing to do with the country of Greece. Replacing this term by Eastern Catholic amounts to a loss of information. It would be similar to replacing all occurrences of 'Baptists', 'Methodists' and 'Pentecostal' by just 'Protestant' because you cannot tell the difference between them.
Place Clichy (
talk)
19:56, 21 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose: category is only about a portion of the Eastern-Catholic, the ones of Byzantine (Greek) heritage. For examples Armenian Catholics (present in Russia) are Eastern Catholics but not Greek Catholic.
A ntv (
talk)
20:14, 23 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Primates of the Romanian Church United with Rome, Greek-Catholic
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Technically the name of the category should be: Category:Bishops, Archbishops and Metropolitans, Mayor Archbishop of Făgăraș and Alba Iulia (and also the article
List of bishops of Făgăraș and Alba Iulia should be named in the same way). That because during the centuries the bishops of this town obtained to change their title more times because they were the heads of the Greek-Catholic Romanian Church. The title Category:Primates of the Romanian Greek Catholic Church is surely better, less technical but more readable for the users, and with more information. Note also that this Categoly belong to Category
Category:Eastern Catholic primates, which lists all the heads of the Eastern Catholic Churches. For this reason it is better to leave the name Primates (or at least Leaders) into the name of this Category.
A ntv (
talk)
14:59, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
ALT 1 or ALT 2 rename to PeterK's suggestion above or to
Category:Primates of the Romanian Eastern Catholic Church per proposal in the Catholics proposal above this one. Let the nuances be spelled out in the head note. Confession I've been renaming articles and doing some grammar tidy up on the Romanian Greek Catholic articles. They seem to have a liking for ponderous titles in Romanian that don't read well in English.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
09:28, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Yes. Perhaps I was a bit hasty with my recent edits on the articles. Best to get consensus on whether we like "Greek Catholic" or "Greek-Catholic" or "Byzantine". Procedural close on this one meantime?
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
13:01, 21 April 2020 (UTC)reply
I would strongly discourage the use of 'Eastern Catholic' as a replacement for 'Greek Catholic'. These are just not the same thing, just like 'Baptist' and 'Protestant'. All Greek Catholics are Eastern Catholics, but not all Eastern Catholics are Greek Catholics: the Maronites, Chaldeans, Armenian Catholics, Coptic Catholics etc. are not.
Place Clichy (
talk)
19:56, 21 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Deaths from the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic
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Most of the films and categories in this category are about a single person. However, there are some entries that are only loosely based on real people, e.g. Casque d'Or, Dying to Survive, maybe Karthavyam, Pad Man, Panchagni, so perhaps all it really needs is a thorough cleanup and explicit inclusion criteria. I'm going to start transferring entries to the other categories, then we'll see what's left.
Clarityfiend (
talk)
08:39, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Eurovision Song Contest entrants of country
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: Stemming from previous conversations about the issues with this existing naming convention, I am seeking to rename these so that the entrants aren't assigned a nationality. Each country in the contest can choose whoever they want to represent them. The point of these categories is simply to group entrants who have represented a specific country, not to group people of a specific national background. The category name is thus misleading. About 10 years ago, other categories that faced this issue were renamed in this same fashion. This appears to be the only one on my radar that was missed. Please see
here for the discussion that lead to fixing the "song" category and also the larger discussion
here that originally got us thinking.
Grk1011 (
talk)
14:34, 8 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. Especially true for countries whose demonym is a sensitive issue or not necessarily a synonym for the nationality, such as British and Irish.
dummelaksen (
talk)
14:57, 8 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Suppert with one change: "Eurovision Song Contest entrants of Macedonia" should be "Eurovision Song Contest entrants of North Macedonia" to reflect the country's name as of February 2019.
IceWelder [
✉]
15:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The proposal is "of" (country represented). The existing wording I want to change assigns the nationality. Why do you prefer "for" instead?
Grk1011 (
talk)
14:23, 16 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Pleas address Marcocapelle's question and Peterkingiron's suggestion to delete instead.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —
JJMC89 (
T·C)
06:58, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
"representing" is clearly better than "from" since it is more accurate and the word is often used in the articles. Also, from may suggest that they are physically from a certain country, which is not always the case.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
11:52, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment -- I suggested "for" as referring to country represented. "of" might imply nationality, as would "from". I accept the argument re PERFCAT, though some are established performers for whom it would technically apply.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
15:43, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
I agree that "for" is about equivalent and therefore just as good as "representing" (or maybe it is even better simply because it is shorter).
Marcocapelle (
talk)
18:53, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Digital Media Company
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Category:Liberty Award winners
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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English Wikipedia doesn't have a main article on this journalism award but German Wikipedia does
here and it doesn't have a category. (
Liberty Award is a redirect to a different Dutch award.) There's only one article (
Andreas Landwehr) so there's nothing to listify. I can't definitively say that this award is non-defining but there is nothing in English Wikipedia that even hints it might be. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:54, 19 April 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:ICT Awards
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