The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Retain But remove this category from all those not first generational Irish born. The category was intended for Irish born diaspora politicians, randomly such as Burke, Collins, Croker, Duffy, Emmet, Gay, Darcy McGee, the O'Dwyers, Walsh (NY) and a few others. Certainly the rest only belong in a category 'Politicians of Irish ancestry'. Many of those Irish born have interesting stories, a pity to dispel them.
Osioni (
talk)
19:10, 6 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Support Retaining (second !vote by cat creator): Category now contains 37 Irish-born only diaspora politicians, to positive effect. Thank you for original input!
Osioni (
talk)
06:25, 8 January 2018 (UTC)reply
No, because I do not think there is an easy way to define its purging. Also because I have seen descend categories way over used, often with no mention in an article, and people be downright ugly towards those who resist their unreasonable overuse.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
16:55, 13 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete. The parent
Category:Irish diaspora uses a much wider concept of diaspora, which includes all people of Irish descent. This broader usage is supported by dictionaries (e.g.
Merriam-Webster) and used by the head article
diaspora. It is also used all the other subcats of
Category:European diasporas.
The Irish govt is fully entitled to define a term used for a particular purpose in any way it chooses (tho I see no source for their usage), but Wikipedia usage clearly reflects the broader dictionary definition. A category which uses a dicdef term in its name and defines it other than by common usage is misleading, and a recipe for miscategorisaton.
It might theoretically be possible to rename to a title which conveyed the creators intent, but I see no purpose in a cat whose scope separates emigrants+chilren+grandchildren from the rest of the dispora. And some of the creators' comments are at best preposterous: e.g.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan not of Irish origin? Boggle. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
11:53, 13 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Thank you BHG for your courteous level of discussion, "preposterous" and "Boggle" very much old-school Wikipedia and in keeping! At the onset John Pack Lambert, not I, requested deletion of this category including Moynihan on the grounds that their ties to Ireland are tenuous and their Irish ancestry trivial. I checked this and was in agreement, eliminating those who had no mention of Irish roots, including Moynihan, other than being "Friends of Ireland". Then JPL had a change of mind with regard to Moynihan. So let us include in the new understanding of who Irish diaspora politicians are, all the Teds, Tipps, Bills and countless others who are "Friends of Ireland" maybe distantly related or not. I'll rescue all present names in the category into the section Politicians under
Irish diaspora. So there is no further impediment to category deletion, though really, a category is tidier and easier controlled than an undefined endless "list" of names.
Osioni (
talk)
20:48, 15 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Whatever about Moynihan, this category remains fundamentally flawed in one of 2 ways. Either it:
uses an unusual and non-obvious definition of "diaspora", which will lead to widespread miscategorisation
uses the standard "diaspora", creating an excessively broad and
WP:INDISCRIMINATE category
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Articles of Wiki Academy Albania 2017
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Procedural question: @
Marcocapelle and
DexDor: do you still want to proceed with this now that it's a conventional WikiProject cat, populated via WikiProject banners? --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
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Category:Fictional characters with sadistic personality disorder
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Delete: no page's inclusion in that category seems to be justified. The category could have some valid members but currently serves only as a magnet for armchair psychologists (i.e. original research). — Bilorv(talk)(c)(e)01:41, 6 January 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Chilean governors
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Category:Christian South Korean Musicians
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:OCEGRS, this is a non-defining intersection between religion, nationality, and occupation. These are South Korean musicians who are Christian, but their music is not defined by their faith. There is a long-standing precedence against these types of categories, and the 'musician by religion' category tree was also
deleted over a decade ago.
ℯxplicit08:20, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete - none of the musicians mentioned in the category have preformed Christian music or have had instances of their religion influencing their music. There certainly are more articles that could fit in the category, but I'm not sure it would make the category more valid. Perhaps
Category:South Korea performers of Christian music or something similar would be more appropriate if there are South Korean performers of Christian music.
Inter&anthro (
talk)
20:17, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete (or better, upmerge). That would be a valid category, but the three people I sampled appeared to have a secular music career, not one with anything related directly to Christianity.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
22:14, 6 January 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Supertalk Mississippi programs
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary
WP:SMALLCAT for radio programs aired by a minor radio network, of which two of the three entries are redirects to the network's base article and the only one that actually has a standalone article is up for AFD as not properly sourced.
Bearcat (
talk)
07:02, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Wikipedia protected pages
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: A page with any level of protection is a "protected page", not just
fully protected pages. Therefore, I propose moving this category to a more precise title (subcats to follow via
WP:CFD/S), and to recreate
Category:Wikipedia protected pages as a container for all types of protected pages (fully protected, semi-protected, etc.). If there is consensus for this change, I'll go through the rest of the category tree as needed once this category is renamed. (Pinging
User:MZMcBride as the category's creator) --
Black Falcon(
talk)06:17, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Hah, thanks for the ping. I don't even remember doing this. It looks like I was migrating from
Category:Protected, which is definitely a worse name. No preference on my end if the category gets renamed again. I'll note that I guess there are at least currently five or six variants of protected pages: semi edit protected, semi move protected, fully edit protected, fully move protected, upload protected, and protected against creation. The last group of pages obviously can't really be categorized. :-) --
MZMcBride (
talk)
14:57, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Support changing the name then remaking the original as a parent per nom. Note that there are several subcategories of this which might also need their names changed accordingly.
Grutness...wha?22:52, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Support: I have always assumed that unqualified reference to "protection" means "full protection" but I see no reason not to be more specific when we can. — Bilorv(talk)(c)(e)01:35, 6 January 2018 (UTC)reply
If @
Black Falcon's intention was to rename the subcats too, then the nomination is misleading; OTOH if they were overlooked, then the nom would just cause confusion.
@
BrownHairedGirl: My intention was to work on the subcategories if there was consensus for this proposal, so that eventually there is a hierarchy along the lines of:
Protected pages
Fully protected pages
Pages fully protected against vandalism
Fully protected templates
Semi-protected pages
Pages semi-protected against vandalism
Semi-protected templates
Protected templates
Fully protected templates
Semi-protected templates
Pages protected against vandalism
Pages fully protected against vandalism
Pages semi-protected against vandalism
Given the current lack of consistency within the category tree, I felt it would be too confusing/messy to try to nominate all of these categories at one time. --
Black Falcon(
talk)02:21, 14 January 2018 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:DC Comics weapons
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Oppose Smallcat only applies if the category has no potential for expansion. This one can be expanded with articles from the parent category, it just hasn't been populated.ZXCVBNM (
TALK)06:18, 23 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Lasso of Truth, Power Ring, Trick Arrows, Invisible Plane and possibly more. I believe I left a message for someone to change the infobox so that weapons got sorted into that category rather than the objects one and that is why I left it blank but I am not sure if anyone did.ZXCVBNM (
TALK)15:22, 26 December 2017 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Herpetological citizen science
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Creator's response: I created the category just to keep in line with the fact that other groups had sub categories. It can be moved to the general citizen science section though if you feel the need. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Psyon (
talk •
contribs)
03:21, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Retain But remove this category from all those not first generational Irish born. The category was intended for Irish born diaspora politicians, randomly such as Burke, Collins, Croker, Duffy, Emmet, Gay, Darcy McGee, the O'Dwyers, Walsh (NY) and a few others. Certainly the rest only belong in a category 'Politicians of Irish ancestry'. Many of those Irish born have interesting stories, a pity to dispel them.
Osioni (
talk)
19:10, 6 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Support Retaining (second !vote by cat creator): Category now contains 37 Irish-born only diaspora politicians, to positive effect. Thank you for original input!
Osioni (
talk)
06:25, 8 January 2018 (UTC)reply
No, because I do not think there is an easy way to define its purging. Also because I have seen descend categories way over used, often with no mention in an article, and people be downright ugly towards those who resist their unreasonable overuse.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
16:55, 13 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete. The parent
Category:Irish diaspora uses a much wider concept of diaspora, which includes all people of Irish descent. This broader usage is supported by dictionaries (e.g.
Merriam-Webster) and used by the head article
diaspora. It is also used all the other subcats of
Category:European diasporas.
The Irish govt is fully entitled to define a term used for a particular purpose in any way it chooses (tho I see no source for their usage), but Wikipedia usage clearly reflects the broader dictionary definition. A category which uses a dicdef term in its name and defines it other than by common usage is misleading, and a recipe for miscategorisaton.
It might theoretically be possible to rename to a title which conveyed the creators intent, but I see no purpose in a cat whose scope separates emigrants+chilren+grandchildren from the rest of the dispora. And some of the creators' comments are at best preposterous: e.g.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan not of Irish origin? Boggle. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
11:53, 13 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Thank you BHG for your courteous level of discussion, "preposterous" and "Boggle" very much old-school Wikipedia and in keeping! At the onset John Pack Lambert, not I, requested deletion of this category including Moynihan on the grounds that their ties to Ireland are tenuous and their Irish ancestry trivial. I checked this and was in agreement, eliminating those who had no mention of Irish roots, including Moynihan, other than being "Friends of Ireland". Then JPL had a change of mind with regard to Moynihan. So let us include in the new understanding of who Irish diaspora politicians are, all the Teds, Tipps, Bills and countless others who are "Friends of Ireland" maybe distantly related or not. I'll rescue all present names in the category into the section Politicians under
Irish diaspora. So there is no further impediment to category deletion, though really, a category is tidier and easier controlled than an undefined endless "list" of names.
Osioni (
talk)
20:48, 15 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Whatever about Moynihan, this category remains fundamentally flawed in one of 2 ways. Either it:
uses an unusual and non-obvious definition of "diaspora", which will lead to widespread miscategorisation
uses the standard "diaspora", creating an excessively broad and
WP:INDISCRIMINATE category
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Articles of Wiki Academy Albania 2017
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Procedural question: @
Marcocapelle and
DexDor: do you still want to proceed with this now that it's a conventional WikiProject cat, populated via WikiProject banners? --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Fictional characters with sadistic personality disorder
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Delete: no page's inclusion in that category seems to be justified. The category could have some valid members but currently serves only as a magnet for armchair psychologists (i.e. original research). — Bilorv(talk)(c)(e)01:41, 6 January 2018 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Chilean governors
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Christian South Korean Musicians
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:OCEGRS, this is a non-defining intersection between religion, nationality, and occupation. These are South Korean musicians who are Christian, but their music is not defined by their faith. There is a long-standing precedence against these types of categories, and the 'musician by religion' category tree was also
deleted over a decade ago.
ℯxplicit08:20, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete - none of the musicians mentioned in the category have preformed Christian music or have had instances of their religion influencing their music. There certainly are more articles that could fit in the category, but I'm not sure it would make the category more valid. Perhaps
Category:South Korea performers of Christian music or something similar would be more appropriate if there are South Korean performers of Christian music.
Inter&anthro (
talk)
20:17, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete (or better, upmerge). That would be a valid category, but the three people I sampled appeared to have a secular music career, not one with anything related directly to Christianity.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
22:14, 6 January 2018 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Category:Supertalk Mississippi programs
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary
WP:SMALLCAT for radio programs aired by a minor radio network, of which two of the three entries are redirects to the network's base article and the only one that actually has a standalone article is up for AFD as not properly sourced.
Bearcat (
talk)
07:02, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Category:Wikipedia protected pages
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: A page with any level of protection is a "protected page", not just
fully protected pages. Therefore, I propose moving this category to a more precise title (subcats to follow via
WP:CFD/S), and to recreate
Category:Wikipedia protected pages as a container for all types of protected pages (fully protected, semi-protected, etc.). If there is consensus for this change, I'll go through the rest of the category tree as needed once this category is renamed. (Pinging
User:MZMcBride as the category's creator) --
Black Falcon(
talk)06:17, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Hah, thanks for the ping. I don't even remember doing this. It looks like I was migrating from
Category:Protected, which is definitely a worse name. No preference on my end if the category gets renamed again. I'll note that I guess there are at least currently five or six variants of protected pages: semi edit protected, semi move protected, fully edit protected, fully move protected, upload protected, and protected against creation. The last group of pages obviously can't really be categorized. :-) --
MZMcBride (
talk)
14:57, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Support changing the name then remaking the original as a parent per nom. Note that there are several subcategories of this which might also need their names changed accordingly.
Grutness...wha?22:52, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Support: I have always assumed that unqualified reference to "protection" means "full protection" but I see no reason not to be more specific when we can. — Bilorv(talk)(c)(e)01:35, 6 January 2018 (UTC)reply
If @
Black Falcon's intention was to rename the subcats too, then the nomination is misleading; OTOH if they were overlooked, then the nom would just cause confusion.
@
BrownHairedGirl: My intention was to work on the subcategories if there was consensus for this proposal, so that eventually there is a hierarchy along the lines of:
Protected pages
Fully protected pages
Pages fully protected against vandalism
Fully protected templates
Semi-protected pages
Pages semi-protected against vandalism
Semi-protected templates
Protected templates
Fully protected templates
Semi-protected templates
Pages protected against vandalism
Pages fully protected against vandalism
Pages semi-protected against vandalism
Given the current lack of consistency within the category tree, I felt it would be too confusing/messy to try to nominate all of these categories at one time. --
Black Falcon(
talk)02:21, 14 January 2018 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:DC Comics weapons
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Oppose Smallcat only applies if the category has no potential for expansion. This one can be expanded with articles from the parent category, it just hasn't been populated.ZXCVBNM (
TALK)06:18, 23 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Lasso of Truth, Power Ring, Trick Arrows, Invisible Plane and possibly more. I believe I left a message for someone to change the infobox so that weapons got sorted into that category rather than the objects one and that is why I left it blank but I am not sure if anyone did.ZXCVBNM (
TALK)15:22, 26 December 2017 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Herpetological citizen science
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Creator's response: I created the category just to keep in line with the fact that other groups had sub categories. It can be moved to the general citizen science section though if you feel the need. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Psyon (
talk •
contribs)
03:21, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.