The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:merge, "events" categories do not distinguish themselves from their parent "year" categories because year categories are collecting events almost by definition. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Marcocapelle (
talk •
contribs) 11:17, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Merge -- This is clearly a redundant level of categorisation. However this is still 2017. How do we get categories for events that are not yet events?
Peterkingiron (
talk) 11:57, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
It seems like a bit early indeed to have an article like
Expo 2025 eight years in advance.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:28, 25 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep distinguishes between different types of content within year categories. Events are clearly distinct from establishments, births and articles of the type
List of sovereign states in 2017 and deleting this intermediate category will make the year category unwieldly.
Category:2017 currently contains 44 subcategories and 18 articles, if
Category:2017 events were deleted, it would contain 55 subcategories and 19 articles, and could increase as new types of category by year are created.
Category:2017 actually is quite a weak category in the sense it adds little meaning, for example biographical articles could be added to each year a person does something notable. By creating more specific subcategories, this is less likely to occur.
Tim! (
talk) 16:44, 25 September 2017 (UTC)reply
It does not distinguish. An establishment is also an event, a birth is also an event etc. "Event" is just a catch-all term.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:28, 26 September 2017 (UTC)reply
MergeCategory:Events by year per nom, but delete all the rest. Per Marcocapelle, virtually everything in the YYYY categories could be called an "event". I prefer deletion over merging because I checked a subset of articles, and each one already was in a more specific year-based category (e.g. YYYY in [topic], YYYY in [place], etc.), so it would not be helpful to merge these articles into the top-level category for each year. --
Black Falcon(
talk) 04:31, 2 October 2017 (UTC)reply
(as nominator) Thanks for this additional comment. Indeed it is better to delete the year categories instead of to merge.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 13:21, 7 October 2017 (UTC)reply
But most certainly the events by month categories have to be re-added to the year categories if the events categories are deleted. I can do that manually if desired.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:18, 9 October 2017 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:The Firesign Theatre
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Navigates too little content. ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 07:24, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Rename/Purge to
Category:The Firesign Theatre members. Five is normally my cutoff and there's only 4 of them but it seems defining for all of them and something that would likely aid navigation.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 15:21, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
keep not seeing why we are ignoring the two large subcats.
Mangoe (
talk) 15:11, 25 September 2017 (UTC)reply
@
Mangoe: They link to one another so this parent is not useful for navigation. ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 20:41, 2 October 2017 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:People assisting Jews during the Holocaust
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Support These seem like very good suggestions, and "Polish people" is much better than "Poles and Polish citizens".
—
Malik ShabazzTalk/Stalk 03:46, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Question At first glance, it looks as if "People assisting Jews during the Holocaust" has the same scope as
Righteous Among the Nations, because Jews would dispute whether helping someone convert to Christianity actually is assistance/rescuing, and assistance that's notable enough to warrant categorisation really needs to be repeated and/or substantial, and without expectation of the favor being returned. Shouldn't this, therefore, be merged with
Category:Righteous Among the Nations, and the Poles be merged into
Category:Polish Righteous Among the Nations? Response to Marcocappelle's point — if someone hasn't been honored with חֲסִידִי אֻמּוֹת הָעוֹלָם status, does he warrant categorisation here? To some extent, this category is subjective ("did he help them enough to get categorised that way?"), but we can all agree that so-and-so and such-and-such have been named חֲסִידִי אֻמּוֹת הָעוֹלָם.
Nyttend (
talk) 05:31, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
I could support the merge provided that articles are checked manually to assess whether people really have this status. Per previous discussion, there may not be enough articles for two category layers. But if kept, the proposed renames are an obvious improvement.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:49, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Yes, strictly on the issue of the naming, the proposal is better than the current name.
Nyttend (
talk) 23:47, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Support -- The two should match. The "Righteous" category depends on recognition by an Israeli institution, so that this should be wider. Those qualifying for the "Righteous" category should be there if possible, not in both; this is the pattern for all other countries. If this category can properly be emptied into that, we should delete the Polish category and redirect the other.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 12:04, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Directors of Disney
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:rename. --
Black Falcon(
talk) 04:25, 2 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Rename per nominator.
...William, is the complaint department really on
the roof? 13:53, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Speedy Per
WP:C2C, bringing a category into line with established naming conventions for that category tree.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 15:22, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:merge, "events" categories do not distinguish themselves from their parent "year" categories because year categories are collecting events almost by definition. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Marcocapelle (
talk •
contribs) 11:17, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Merge -- This is clearly a redundant level of categorisation. However this is still 2017. How do we get categories for events that are not yet events?
Peterkingiron (
talk) 11:57, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
It seems like a bit early indeed to have an article like
Expo 2025 eight years in advance.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:28, 25 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep distinguishes between different types of content within year categories. Events are clearly distinct from establishments, births and articles of the type
List of sovereign states in 2017 and deleting this intermediate category will make the year category unwieldly.
Category:2017 currently contains 44 subcategories and 18 articles, if
Category:2017 events were deleted, it would contain 55 subcategories and 19 articles, and could increase as new types of category by year are created.
Category:2017 actually is quite a weak category in the sense it adds little meaning, for example biographical articles could be added to each year a person does something notable. By creating more specific subcategories, this is less likely to occur.
Tim! (
talk) 16:44, 25 September 2017 (UTC)reply
It does not distinguish. An establishment is also an event, a birth is also an event etc. "Event" is just a catch-all term.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:28, 26 September 2017 (UTC)reply
MergeCategory:Events by year per nom, but delete all the rest. Per Marcocapelle, virtually everything in the YYYY categories could be called an "event". I prefer deletion over merging because I checked a subset of articles, and each one already was in a more specific year-based category (e.g. YYYY in [topic], YYYY in [place], etc.), so it would not be helpful to merge these articles into the top-level category for each year. --
Black Falcon(
talk) 04:31, 2 October 2017 (UTC)reply
(as nominator) Thanks for this additional comment. Indeed it is better to delete the year categories instead of to merge.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 13:21, 7 October 2017 (UTC)reply
But most certainly the events by month categories have to be re-added to the year categories if the events categories are deleted. I can do that manually if desired.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:18, 9 October 2017 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:The Firesign Theatre
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Navigates too little content. ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 07:24, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Rename/Purge to
Category:The Firesign Theatre members. Five is normally my cutoff and there's only 4 of them but it seems defining for all of them and something that would likely aid navigation.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 15:21, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
keep not seeing why we are ignoring the two large subcats.
Mangoe (
talk) 15:11, 25 September 2017 (UTC)reply
@
Mangoe: They link to one another so this parent is not useful for navigation. ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 20:41, 2 October 2017 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:People assisting Jews during the Holocaust
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Support These seem like very good suggestions, and "Polish people" is much better than "Poles and Polish citizens".
—
Malik ShabazzTalk/Stalk 03:46, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Question At first glance, it looks as if "People assisting Jews during the Holocaust" has the same scope as
Righteous Among the Nations, because Jews would dispute whether helping someone convert to Christianity actually is assistance/rescuing, and assistance that's notable enough to warrant categorisation really needs to be repeated and/or substantial, and without expectation of the favor being returned. Shouldn't this, therefore, be merged with
Category:Righteous Among the Nations, and the Poles be merged into
Category:Polish Righteous Among the Nations? Response to Marcocappelle's point — if someone hasn't been honored with חֲסִידִי אֻמּוֹת הָעוֹלָם status, does he warrant categorisation here? To some extent, this category is subjective ("did he help them enough to get categorised that way?"), but we can all agree that so-and-so and such-and-such have been named חֲסִידִי אֻמּוֹת הָעוֹלָם.
Nyttend (
talk) 05:31, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
I could support the merge provided that articles are checked manually to assess whether people really have this status. Per previous discussion, there may not be enough articles for two category layers. But if kept, the proposed renames are an obvious improvement.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:49, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Yes, strictly on the issue of the naming, the proposal is better than the current name.
Nyttend (
talk) 23:47, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Support -- The two should match. The "Righteous" category depends on recognition by an Israeli institution, so that this should be wider. Those qualifying for the "Righteous" category should be there if possible, not in both; this is the pattern for all other countries. If this category can properly be emptied into that, we should delete the Polish category and redirect the other.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 12:04, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Directors of Disney
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:rename. --
Black Falcon(
talk) 04:25, 2 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Rename per nominator.
...William, is the complaint department really on
the roof? 13:53, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Speedy Per
WP:C2C, bringing a category into line with established naming conventions for that category tree.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 15:22, 24 September 2017 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.