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Nominator's rationale: Calling a user "idiosyncratic" is mildly pejorative. Of course, it's not blatantly so, but if one imagines two editors in a dispute, and one of them puts the other's user page into this category, that could legitimately be seen as incivil and disruptive. The proposed rename is accurate for what is in the category, and is completely neutral. --
Tryptofish (
talk)
23:34, 27 June 2017 (UTC)reply
It comes down to whether or not the category name should editorialize on users. And I would argue that, when one describes "miscellaneous" as an "understatement", that is tantamount to saying that the category needs to make such a value judgment. It's just a quarantine category, to keep these categories out of the rest of category space. To say that what distinguishes these user categories from other categories is their idiosyncracy is inaccurate, because there are certainly other user categories that could be described that way. I've put myself in categories WikProject Aquarium Fishes members and Wikipedian birders, and those could be considered by some people to be idiosyncracies. (I remember once being described at Wikipedia Review as a "fish freak", based on my user page, and it was not intended as a compliment. Then again, I also have two categories that are in the "idiosyncratic" group, but which I personally regard simply as humorous.) So idiosyncracy is in the eye of the beholder. As a thought experiment, you could try to answer the question, what is the harm or loss in saying "miscellaneous"? I don't think that we are warning anyone looking at the category. I bet there is no answer that does not involve a value judgment that these categories are somehow "lesser" than other user categories. --
Tryptofish (
talk)
22:53, 28 June 2017 (UTC)reply
@
Tryptofish: I can recall multiple precedents against using "miscellaneous" (or "other") in category names. Marcocapelle's suggestion addresses at least some of the rationale in your nomination; would you accept it as an improvement over the current name? –
FayenaticLondon10:32, 24 July 2017 (UTC)reply
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Category:Miss Grand Thailand delegates
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Category:Miss Grand International
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Category:21st Century Fox franchises
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Category:Fan family
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Nominator's rationale: Not all members of the same family, since this is a transliteration of several different surnames. —
swpbT13:11, 27 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose, The people listed below all now share the same surname (范). The Fan Changjiang, Fan Jian, Fan Kuai, Louis Fan, Fan Rui and Chen Fan pages have been removed from the category. Clarification that the category is for noteworthy individuals sharing the (范) surname has been added. Requisite edits across the 6 aforementioned pages have also been made.
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Category:Swiss coming-of-age films
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Category:Tunisian people of Sicilian descent
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Keep and populate more than 100,000 Sicilians migrated to Tunisia in the second half of the XIX century. Tens of those will be notable one way or another. --
Alessandro Riolo (
talk)
00:07, 5 July 2017 (UTC)reply
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Category:Les Fleurs du mal
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Nominator's rationale: Only one of the items in this category (
Les Litanies de Satan) is a part of the original collection of poems. The rest are items that are either inspired by or get their title from the poems.
Opencooper (
talk)
17:08, 15 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Category names are supposed to be representative. A majority of the articles in this category are not part of Les Fleurs du mal but merely inspired by them. That is not a strong enough relation to bundle them together as part of the original work.
Opencooper (
talk)
21:23, 17 June 2017 (UTC)reply
If we need this category at all (on which I have No view), it should haver the present name, which will cover both the original and its derivatives.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:39, 18 June 2017 (UTC)reply
The problem is that those "derivatives" aren't really strongly related to it. Just slightly inspired by. It makes no sense to group them together with the original work like that,
Opencooper (
talk)
04:28, 19 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Purge, rename and keep the redirect to reflect the proper contents of the category, without objection against recreating
Category:Les Fleurs du mal if more articles about the original are going to be written. When we keep
Les Fleurs du mal in the header of the category page it remains possible to quickly navigate between original and derivatives.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
11:37, 27 June 2017 (UTC)reply
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Category:Science writers of medieval Islam
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Rename to "Scientific scholars of medieval Islam". As far as I see, the two articles in it are both about people who mostly wrote things; one of whom was in charge of a library. Compare them to someone like
Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi, and they would fit the definition of scholars much more than scientists in and of themselves. --
IazygesConsermonorOpus meum15:05, 5 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Not sure about a reverse merge, presumably the category tree of science writers is meant for writers who do not practice science at all.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
20:12, 21 June 2017 (UTC)reply
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Category:Companies formerly listed on the Amsterdam Stock Exchange
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Nominator's rationale: this is a very unusual category because it does not contain companies that were delisted, but instead the
Amsterdam Stock Exchange itself has become a former institute as it merged into
Euronext. I don't think that companies should be categorized by this.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:35, 3 June 2017 (UTC)reply
I still think that being quoted on the Dutch Stock Exchange (before it merged with others) is notable. It will be useful for example for major Dutch companies that ceased to operate before 2000.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
21:43, 28 June 2017 (UTC)reply
That probably shows that we are missing a lot of articles on 19th and 20th century companies, taken over or liquidated, that ought to be listed.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
23:38, 7 July 2017 (UTC)reply
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Category:Agrarian historians
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comment Walking through the category tree, people in the first category are supposed to be writing from an
agrarianist viewpoint. I'm afraid I am not familiar enough with the material to address that question, however.
Mangoe (
talk)
11:40, 27 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Support and populate properly -- It is largely "agrarian" not the "history of agrarianism" (which is a political philosophy). The standard history of agriculture (and rural affairs) in England is called the "agrarian history", but it is essentially about agricultural history, though possibly slightly widen than that. However, I am wondering why
Joan ThirskMark Overton and some others do not appear in either.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
22:05, 28 June 2017 (UTC)reply
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Category:Notes (finance)
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Nominator's rationale:upmerge, the term 'note' is too vague and the content of the category seems merely to be based on a shared name.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
01:30, 27 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment -- the problem is that not all are interest bearing. Promissory notes may or may not bear interest. Bank notes (e.g. dollar bills) do not bear interest.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
22:09, 28 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Support, I agree that the category should me merged, the Notes is unclear and any articles that are not interest bearing can be moved to more appropriate existing categories.
Sargdub (
talk)
22:53, 2 July 2017 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's rationale: Calling a user "idiosyncratic" is mildly pejorative. Of course, it's not blatantly so, but if one imagines two editors in a dispute, and one of them puts the other's user page into this category, that could legitimately be seen as incivil and disruptive. The proposed rename is accurate for what is in the category, and is completely neutral. --
Tryptofish (
talk)
23:34, 27 June 2017 (UTC)reply
It comes down to whether or not the category name should editorialize on users. And I would argue that, when one describes "miscellaneous" as an "understatement", that is tantamount to saying that the category needs to make such a value judgment. It's just a quarantine category, to keep these categories out of the rest of category space. To say that what distinguishes these user categories from other categories is their idiosyncracy is inaccurate, because there are certainly other user categories that could be described that way. I've put myself in categories WikProject Aquarium Fishes members and Wikipedian birders, and those could be considered by some people to be idiosyncracies. (I remember once being described at Wikipedia Review as a "fish freak", based on my user page, and it was not intended as a compliment. Then again, I also have two categories that are in the "idiosyncratic" group, but which I personally regard simply as humorous.) So idiosyncracy is in the eye of the beholder. As a thought experiment, you could try to answer the question, what is the harm or loss in saying "miscellaneous"? I don't think that we are warning anyone looking at the category. I bet there is no answer that does not involve a value judgment that these categories are somehow "lesser" than other user categories. --
Tryptofish (
talk)
22:53, 28 June 2017 (UTC)reply
@
Tryptofish: I can recall multiple precedents against using "miscellaneous" (or "other") in category names. Marcocapelle's suggestion addresses at least some of the rationale in your nomination; would you accept it as an improvement over the current name? –
FayenaticLondon10:32, 24 July 2017 (UTC)reply
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Category:Miss Grand Thailand delegates
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Category:Miss Grand International
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Category:21st Century Fox franchises
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Category:Fan family
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Nominator's rationale: Not all members of the same family, since this is a transliteration of several different surnames. —
swpbT13:11, 27 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose, The people listed below all now share the same surname (范). The Fan Changjiang, Fan Jian, Fan Kuai, Louis Fan, Fan Rui and Chen Fan pages have been removed from the category. Clarification that the category is for noteworthy individuals sharing the (范) surname has been added. Requisite edits across the 6 aforementioned pages have also been made.
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Category:Swiss coming-of-age films
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Category:Tunisian people of Sicilian descent
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Keep and populate more than 100,000 Sicilians migrated to Tunisia in the second half of the XIX century. Tens of those will be notable one way or another. --
Alessandro Riolo (
talk)
00:07, 5 July 2017 (UTC)reply
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Category:Les Fleurs du mal
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Nominator's rationale: Only one of the items in this category (
Les Litanies de Satan) is a part of the original collection of poems. The rest are items that are either inspired by or get their title from the poems.
Opencooper (
talk)
17:08, 15 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Category names are supposed to be representative. A majority of the articles in this category are not part of Les Fleurs du mal but merely inspired by them. That is not a strong enough relation to bundle them together as part of the original work.
Opencooper (
talk)
21:23, 17 June 2017 (UTC)reply
If we need this category at all (on which I have No view), it should haver the present name, which will cover both the original and its derivatives.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:39, 18 June 2017 (UTC)reply
The problem is that those "derivatives" aren't really strongly related to it. Just slightly inspired by. It makes no sense to group them together with the original work like that,
Opencooper (
talk)
04:28, 19 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Purge, rename and keep the redirect to reflect the proper contents of the category, without objection against recreating
Category:Les Fleurs du mal if more articles about the original are going to be written. When we keep
Les Fleurs du mal in the header of the category page it remains possible to quickly navigate between original and derivatives.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
11:37, 27 June 2017 (UTC)reply
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Category:Science writers of medieval Islam
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Rename to "Scientific scholars of medieval Islam". As far as I see, the two articles in it are both about people who mostly wrote things; one of whom was in charge of a library. Compare them to someone like
Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi, and they would fit the definition of scholars much more than scientists in and of themselves. --
IazygesConsermonorOpus meum15:05, 5 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Not sure about a reverse merge, presumably the category tree of science writers is meant for writers who do not practice science at all.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
20:12, 21 June 2017 (UTC)reply
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Category:Companies formerly listed on the Amsterdam Stock Exchange
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Nominator's rationale: this is a very unusual category because it does not contain companies that were delisted, but instead the
Amsterdam Stock Exchange itself has become a former institute as it merged into
Euronext. I don't think that companies should be categorized by this.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:35, 3 June 2017 (UTC)reply
I still think that being quoted on the Dutch Stock Exchange (before it merged with others) is notable. It will be useful for example for major Dutch companies that ceased to operate before 2000.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
21:43, 28 June 2017 (UTC)reply
That probably shows that we are missing a lot of articles on 19th and 20th century companies, taken over or liquidated, that ought to be listed.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
23:38, 7 July 2017 (UTC)reply
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Category:Agrarian historians
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comment Walking through the category tree, people in the first category are supposed to be writing from an
agrarianist viewpoint. I'm afraid I am not familiar enough with the material to address that question, however.
Mangoe (
talk)
11:40, 27 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Support and populate properly -- It is largely "agrarian" not the "history of agrarianism" (which is a political philosophy). The standard history of agriculture (and rural affairs) in England is called the "agrarian history", but it is essentially about agricultural history, though possibly slightly widen than that. However, I am wondering why
Joan ThirskMark Overton and some others do not appear in either.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
22:05, 28 June 2017 (UTC)reply
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Category:Notes (finance)
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Nominator's rationale:upmerge, the term 'note' is too vague and the content of the category seems merely to be based on a shared name.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
01:30, 27 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment -- the problem is that not all are interest bearing. Promissory notes may or may not bear interest. Bank notes (e.g. dollar bills) do not bear interest.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
22:09, 28 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Support, I agree that the category should me merged, the Notes is unclear and any articles that are not interest bearing can be moved to more appropriate existing categories.
Sargdub (
talk)
22:53, 2 July 2017 (UTC)reply
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